A 45 "Why" Question

[OleEd]

I have a Remington 1911R1 (one of originals) and enjoy it mucho. Feels like the one I carried in the Marines and in Nam. But aside from that, I am to the point of thinking of ways to make a few changes "IF" it will enhance the accuracy of the weapon. I do not want to make any machined modifications.

I'm 69 and retired so my outlook on the future has changed from that of a 30 yr old. I'm not ready to just hold it sitting in my rocker on the front porch and tell slightly embellished war stories about what a “bell-hop, doggie and bus drivers is and where they go, and do golly-gee stories... (Do that already with my Vet friends.) So,

1. Why do you change the recoil rod and spring? I have fired about 1500+ rds and no problems with the shells ejecting-- so why.

2. Why change a trigger to one with little holes in it and a hammer that looks so thin that it might snap in two? Does it really make a difference? Trigger I have seems smooth and crisp to me.

3. If the "extractor" works why change it out?

4. Same on a slide stop - it ain't broke so why change to a Performance Tuned
Slide Stop? For a few dollars more I can buy another 1000 bullets to reload.

5. Sights OK but would like to put on an adjustable Novak rear sight but don’t want to machine the slide just to have one.

6. Maybe for a "Show-Me State Ozarkian former Marine" what would be a couple things to do to make my 25 and 50 yd groups a wee bit tighter for a 45 I love shooting? Now u SF's and Seal pups, I don't use a sandbag to shoot with, I don't have a "tick when I shoot" and just had my eyes checked and the Doc said I don't need to change my glasses, eh?

Thanks again. Your past replys to my other questions have been right on.

Have a Merry Christmas all.

 

[Averageman]

I have to agree with a lot of what you state, if it isn't broke; don't "fix" it.
But;
I do like my thumb safety a bit bigger, I do like Chip McCormick Magazines, I do like my Houge grip, heck I even like my better than stock trigger.
I'm no longer tied to the stock parts I was issued, why not make it a bit better if it works for me?

 

[jakescott586]

I agree with you sir, if it isn't broken, no need in fixing it. If you reload try experimenting some with your loads to improve your accuracy. That also gives you an excuse to shoot. All my 1911's shoot very tight groups with 230 grain cast SWC and 5.5 grains of 231.

 

[jackpinesavages]

Thank You for your service Ed.

Change out the springs for wear. Otherwise I'm with you, unless you have indefinite time to tinker. Making significant changes to these pistols affects other aspects that I am unaware of until a failure. Not my idea of a HD or SD pistol, but if you've got the time go for it!

 

[bikerdoc]

The only thing I do is change out recoil springs for wear, use Kimber model 208 mags. and get nice grips. Like you Im more into function than dodads.

 

[mavracer]

But aside from that, I am to the point of thinking of ways to make a few changes "IF" it will enhance the accuracy of the weapon. I do not want to make any machined modifications.

you really can't improve the inherent accuracy of the gun without tightening up the lock up. most of the other changes just help you to get closer to what the gun is capable of.
I mean if you take a gun with a 20# trigger without sights and lock it in a ransom rest then do a trigger job and install good sights it won't shoot any better in a rest but in your hand that'll make a huge difference.

I have a Colt 1911A1 GI configuration with the tiny GI sights and I really can't do much better shooting off hand than I do with my Les Baer cause It still mostly comes down to how well I get the trigger to break while the sights are lined up.
Spending money on another 1000 round of practice will have a better effect that mod's do.

 

[bofe954]

If you're happy with it, leave it alone.

The way I think about it is that most of the changes to the GI guns came from competition. Lighter trigger components can help obtain a lighter trigger pull.

Fiddling with springs can change the perception of recoil or alter the trigger pull. People claim a lot of things about the full length guide rod, but one thing it does is put weight at the front of the gun.

I've never seen a performance tuned slide stop.

If you want better accuracy I'd look at your barrel bushing and change that if it's sloppy. A lighter trigger might help you shoot more accurate, but you like it as it is, so leave it. Plenty of NRA bullseye guys shooting good 50 yd groups with 4.5 lb triggers.

Why do people who love their guns as they are go on the internet to ask about making changes?

 

[BBossman1]

Some people like to drag their firearms through the Brownells catalog with a crap magnet...

 

[nickn10]

Crap magnet... you're gonna catch hell for being so funny but true. I went through that phase and finally figured out more ammo and practice was the best way to spend money if I wanted my weapons to shoot better.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

... drag through & crap magnet.... Classic first posting!

 

[0to60]

1. Why do you change the recoil rod and spring? I have fired about 1500+ rds and no problems with the shells ejecting-- so why.

From what I understand, changing to a full length guide rod reduces the load (and wear) on the barrel bushing and can improve accuracy. Would this be noticed by a normal shooter? I'm guessing not, but maybe if you're a competition shooter you'd see it? I dunno. Also, some say that the heavier full length guide rod can help hold the muzzle down during recoil. Since we're talking an ounce or two, I gotta figure this is extremely unnoticeable, possibly even a placebo.

As for the spring, depending on how hot you load your ammo you might need a different spring. And despite that, springs wear out after a while (3000 rounds seems to be what's often recommended).

2. Why change a trigger to one with little holes in it and a hammer that looks so thin that it might snap in two? Does it really make a difference? Trigger I have seems smooth and crisp to me.

Your gun is a GI style, and thus has a spurred hammer and GI style grip safety. A lot of guys complain that the hammer spur reaches over the end of the grip safety and bites the web of their hand, so the beavertail grip safety was developed. The beavertail doesn't work with a GI style spurred hammer, so they have these low profile hammers instead. You don't need the fancy hammer if you like your GI style grip safety and the spurred hammer.

3. If the "extractor" works why change it out?

4. Same on a slide stop - it ain't broke so why change to a Performance Tuned Slide Stop? For a few dollars more I can buy another 1000 bullets to reload.

You don't need to--until they wear out. Cheaper 1911s are built from cheaper parts. The slide stop is a part with a heavy work load, and has a finite lifetime. A slide stop that was machined from tool steel will last longer than a cast one. Same kinda deal with the extractor. Check and see if your extractor turns, or rotates. The more wear, the more it will turn in its hole. If it turns enough, you can start to see feed jams. Replacing the firing pin stop and extractor will eventually become necessary, and machined parts will last longer than cast ones.

 

[ATLDave]

The slide stop is a part with a heavy work load, and has a finite lifetime. A slide stop that was machined from tool steel will last longer than a cast one.

What happens when a slide stop wears out? (Genuine question, not rhetorical or some argument starter.)

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

What happens... It stops "stopping" the slide reliably or in the correct place, further, sometimes they will try to walk out of the gun.

 

[ATLDave]

Thanks. I've got a slide stop (not in a 1911, but one with a removable stop) that has starting backing out some of the time. Ignoramus that I am, it hadn't even occurred to me that the slide stop might be worn out; I've been cleaning and cleaning the little detent and spring that catches it, figuring that some gunk must be preventing it from seating all the way!

 

[mljdeckard]

Theoretically, a slide stop will break. Snap at the point where the link is on it, or on the side, between the pin and the notch. Or, I suppose I should say, eventually the slide stop WILL break, it's a question of if it will happen within the service life of a gun.

I take the full-length guide rods out of all my new guns if they come with one. I can't discern any benefit at all.

Other than that, things like different triggers and hammers, I think are purely cosmetic for 99% of the shooters out there. How many people notice if their lock time is improved by a slightly lower-mass hammer? The sights are something that can be improved, but if you have a G.I. style slide, you will need to have dovetails cut, and have the slide re-blued. Having said that, my dad bought a Mil-Spec that went to my brother when he died, and I can't stand the G.I. style sights. If I owned it, I would have the work done.

 

[LiveLife]

I use my 1911 primarily as a range gun to do load development and accuracy testing, so "must work/cannot fail" requirements of a carry/duty pistol don't necessarily apply for the 1911; but for my carry subcompact pistol, it gets the regular "must work/cannot fail" inspection/cleaning/maintenance service.

The frequency of parts replacement (whether working or broken) may stem from "duty weapon" service maintenance as mentioned in articles like this - http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html

Be honest ... as this article is meant to help you choose a reliable service weapon, not a fun time plinker for Sundays at the range.

The quality of the factory components will come into play when looking for a gun to use more or less out of the box. MIM (Metal Injection Molded) components ... tend to vary in quality ... but they can generally be expected to have a useable service life of 5,000 to 10,000 rounds. Some quality MIM components ... exceeded 30-40,000 rounds. Budget grade small parts that are "good enough" for a hobby level gun that may not get used very much are unacceptable for a service pistol where we should reasonably expect a service cycle of 3-10,000 rounds per year for 3-5 years.

What are the main pitfalls of running a 1911 for duty? Weapon maintenance and end user responsibility are the two big issues. The end user needs to be dialed in to the gun's quirks to be able to run it effectively ... learn the unique manual of arms and proper maintenance of the 1911.

When [magazines] stop falling out, stop locking back, or the first time they stop working, they need to either be addressed or replaced.

Extractor tension is another problem, and stovepipes and double feed (Type 2 and 3) malfunctions are not to be tolerated. Replace the extractor when these start to occur ... I expect only a 5,000 round service cycle on a standard Browning format extractor ... Certain brands of extractors will often last 10,000-15,000 rounds or even longer without incident

Do not just put "200 flawless rounds" through the gun and declare that it is "completely reliable." ... You may as well tell a race car driver that his car is good for that 500 mile race after you drive it around the parking lot once. You need to be able to fire 1000-1500 rounds through the gun without any malfunctions ... while evaluating the weapon for suitability.

 

[45_auto]

what would be a couple things to do to make my 25 and 50 yd groups a wee bit tighter

A better trigger and better sights are the most cost-effective improvements you could make, but you seem adamant that you don't need to change those.

Best thing you can do is shoot it like it is and hope you get better.

 

[Drail]

Better trigger (no creep) better sights and at the very least a higher quality extractor than most of the manufacturers install and have it radiused, polished and tensioned to ensure positive feeding. The magazine and the extractor are two very important parts on a 1911 if you want reliable feeding. Most of the parts in a production gun have a lot of loose tolerances so they will drop into any frame/slide on the assembly line. Replacing these parts with oversized parts that are precisely hand fitted to your frame and slide will give more reliable feeding, extraction and ejection. But I agree with the post about all the guys "dragging a crap magnet through the Brownells catalog". Touche. At least half or more of the aftermarket parts sold for 1911s are more "dress up" items than anything else.

 

[m2steven]

Questions 1 through 4 concern things that people just do because they can from force of habit or peer pressure or just to get things they way they think they ought to be. I never mess with a 1911 if it works. Most default triggers are great and not worth messing with. All of mine have been very well sighted at the place of manufacture.

If you google a particular pistol and it's got a chronic extractor problem, then perhaps that's something you can replace now instead of when it stops working when you need it.

I'm only 61 years old, but it's never too early to start thinking about ways to not waste money .

 

[Onmilo]

1.Why change the recoil spring?
Because they do wear out, 5000 rounds is a good replacement point and if in doubt change it out.'
Worn springs are 98% of the cause of pistol malfunctions that cannot be fixed with a good cleaning.
Why change the recoil guide rod?
Full length guide rods were all the rage at one time, not so much now. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

2.Trigger and hammer, again, if it ain't broke & satisfies you, leave them alone.

3. Good question, leave it alone

4. Good question, if it ain't broke,,,

5. There are no good adjustable sights available that do not require machining of the slide, they simply sit too high and end up in a fragile and precarious position.
If you want a slide with adjustables, buy a pre-machined replacement slide, fit it up, and use it on you current receiver.
And when you do this you will understand why these parts are available, 'cause it will get old quick moving the parts from your old slide to your new slide and back again every time you want to shooot with adjustables.

6. A gunsmith familiar with the 1911 can tighten up the rail fit of the slide and frame and add a fitted barrel bushing.
These two simple and fairly inexpensive upgrades can usually show a noticable improvement in the accuracy of a baseline 1911. HTH

 

[Johnny Lightning]

I have enjoyed the process of "tuning up" my 1911. My 1911 started as a Loaded Springfield that is 100% reliable and the accuracy was ok at best. I was on the hunt for a new 1911 w/ upgraded features that would help w/ accuracy and better fit when I decided that I would rather work w/ what I already have. I did my research and decided to change out the sights to a fiberoptic front sight and adjustable rear sight because it is a combination I shoot very well with, then found a gunsmith to put in a storm lake barrel and bushing and do a trigger job. The results definately were worth the work and $$ put into the gun. My groups shrunk to half the size...basically a ragged hole at 15yrds off hand which made me VERY Happy. You have to remember that my Springer is a target 1911 and I dont carry it so I am not as worried about my enhancements becomeing a hinderance to reliability. So far I have had no negative effects from the work done. Its all about what floats your boat!

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

It ain't broke.

Of the modifications you listed, the biggest thing that will help your accuracy (not the mechanical accuracy of the gun itself) is a clean, crisp trigger, but you say it already has one. The large three-dot sights can give you a less than consistent sight picture for precision shooting, but fine target sights are less visible against anything but a black scoring ring on white paper. You can start getting into accurizing with a "match grade" fitted barrel and bushing, but you said you didn't wish to have machining done. I recommend spending the money on practice ammo. Some brands or types of ammo may be more accurate in your particular gun than others, but this matters little at gunfight ranges.

 

[InkEd]

+1 for "crap magnet." LOL

I think the term can be used for an AR quad rail too.

 

[HKGuns]

I'm with you Sir. I don't get it either. This pistol cost me $350 and you can see from the pictures it is bone stock, except for the $6 grips that are easier to hold. (You'll have to trust me on the insides I suppose.) If it isn't broken, don't fix it.

 

[LiveLife]

for my carry subcompact pistol, it gets the regular "must work/cannot fail" inspection/cleaning/maintenance service.

Wow that sure isn't how I determine if my carry pistol is going to work or not. I prefer significant testing.

I agree. My carry Glock 27 has tens of thousands of rounds shot through without FTF, FTE or parts breakage (at this round count, most 1911s will be needing major parts replacement/rebuild). I have over 200,000+ combined failure-free round count on various Glocks I owned - I guess good enough testing for SD/HD duty . CJ_74, you didn't read my entire post ...

for my carry subcompact pistol, it gets the regular "must work/cannot fail" inspection/cleaning/maintenance service.

Do not just put "200 flawless rounds" through the gun and declare that it is "completely reliable." ... You need to be able to fire 1000-1500 rounds through the gun without any malfunctions ... while evaluating the weapon for suitability.