A Few .308 Load Questions

[kis2]

hello all,

i'm sure several of you already know i just started reloading (since i've PM'd you, thanks for the advice thus far!), and since i've started my average group has shrunk, in half! see pic. and for half the price of my other ammo. I have made a few questions though.

Info:
168gr AMAX
41.7gr Varget
Wolf primer
Prvi brass

According to my reloading manual, out of their test 22" barrel, the above powder and bullet yielded 2500fps. i have a longer barrel, 24", so i assume i'm getting a little more muzzle velocity. true? the max recommended load is 44gr at 2600fps, should i continue to work up to that, or stop where i'm at given the groups i'm averaging? i'm looking to get out to 800yds.

thanks guys. and i know no one can give me exact info for my gun without shooting it, using a chrono, etc etc. i'm just looking for some general advice and rough numbers and will use obvious caution with any of it.

 

[jem375]

I think 44 grs. will work out just fine, my loading manual starts out at 42grs and goes up to 46 grs. Start at 42grs and work your way up looking for pressure signs..

 

[bullseye308]

If the max is 44, I might load up 5 of each from the starting load to say 43.0 and see what looks promising. Most likely your best load will not be at the hot end of the load but nearer the middle. Load up in .5gr increments and see what your gun likes. Once you find the best of those loads, you may start doing 5 rounds in .25 grain increments if you like and see where that gets you.

i have a longer barrel, 24", so i assume i'm getting a little more muzzle velocity. true?

True, you should get more velocity with a longer barrel. You may not get what the book states though. That is where a chrono comes in, so you know what your gun is doing.

the max recommended load is 44gr at 2600fps, should i continue to work up to that, or stop where i'm at given the groups i'm averaging?

I'd work a little closer and see what happens, you may like it. If you don't, you will know soon enough.

BTW, good shooting.

 

[Wildfire]

Looks good .

Hey there;
While I am not sure of the gun or scope , looks as if they work .
What I have found > is the brass holds as much or more of the accuracy than powder.
I use CCI Benchrest primers. Maybe they help maybe they don't. I am sure some would say they do and some would say not. Just what I do.
Brass condition is the key. Make each empty round look and measure the same. head space is a big deal . I set at .002 to .003" .
I recut all primer flash holes. Debur inside and out .
Trim to exact sizes and do my best at making every round the same.
Then I get to the powder.
1/10th grain at a time till she falls in . bullet seating depth was a major accuracy point in all of my rifles.
My .308 has an issue there. It is a PSS. that has a long throat. Not much can be done with that.
The A-Max is an accurate bullet .. But so is the Sierra and the Barns, and Nosler.
Mine will {if I do my part } make one hole at 109 yards.
I have taken P-dogs at over 600 yards with this gun. But a .308 will wear on you big time shooting at P-dogs.

I have also found that the trigger can make a 30% smaller group .

Most .308s will perform their best at or around the 2500 to 2600 FPS range.

 

[kis2]

thanks for the advice so far, i'll certainly give it a try. a chrono would probably help a lot, i just can't justify the expense when i'm only planning on reloading for the one rifle for the concievable future.

thanks for the good shooting compliment. i've been practicing. i think it's really a testament to the rifle and ammo, because i'm still pretty new, and i shoot off a bipod with no other support than my bones with an essentially stock 700p. crazy to think what a more experienced shooter could do.

*edit to add*
here are the details on the gun. i think the only things i've changed since is ditching the ARD for the sunshade (way better resolution), 3lbs on the trigger.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461863

 

[Jim Watson]

I don't know what you plan to do with it, but if I got to .5 MOA, I would quit burning barrel life with experimentation and shoot where it counts.

 

[kis2]

thats kind of what i'm trying to decide mr watson. again, the goal is to shoot moa or less at 800yds. i know velocity has a lot to do with that though.

i dont want to say i'm content, because i never will be, but i am definately pleased as it is. just trying to see if there is something more i can do other than practice.

thanks!

 

[kis2]

Digital scale

ok, so in working up these new loads, my digital hornady scale was going auto off a little too quick for me, so i figured new batteries. with new batteries in, the blue display doesnt light up, and the charge coming out of my powder dispenser is now weighing in at a solid 3gr heavier!

i'm going to make sure these new batteries are fully charged BUT:

the scale with the old or new batteries now weighs my 168gr bullets at 181.x but passes its calibration test.

have i been shooting a max load plus a little this whole time? the brass doesnt show any stress. but if the new measurement is true, i may have just loaded five rounds about 2gr over the max recommended.

frustrating.:banghead:

 

[Jim Watson]

No telling where you are, that scale is badly wrong.

When you get that straightened out, Hodgdon's maximum is 46 grains Varget and a 168 gr SMK. I load a grain below maximum which is 44 gr Varget and a 175 gr SMK. Does the Hornady bullet make a 2 grain difference? I don't know.

 

[BADUNAME37]

ok, so in working up these new loads, my digital hornady scale was going auto off a little too quick for me, so i figured new batteries. with new batteries in, the blue display doesnt light up, and the charge coming out of my powder dispenser is now weighing in at a solid 3gr heavier!

i'm going to make sure these new batteries are fully charged BUT:

the scale with the old or new batteries now weighs my 168gr bullets at 181.x but passes its calibration test.

have i been shooting a max load plus a little this whole time? the brass doesnt show any stress. but if the new measurement is true, i may have just loaded five rounds about 2gr over the max recommended.

frustrating.:banghead:

I believe the technology in these electronic reloading scales leaves a lot to be desired.

I will continue to use my RCBS 5-10-10 (or whatever the numbers are) that I have had for over 25 years and has served me well and still does!

For how little I use the scale, my mechanical scale is just fine. I check several loads when throwing through the powder measure while I am throwing powder for several hundred cases at a time (batch-method).

For my tack-driver rifle, I weigh every single load - first throwing a tad on the light side, then trickling in the pan up to the exact weight when the two horizontal lines line up.

Even that is extremely quick, I really don't see how an electronic scale could be any faster than I am going. Quite frankly, any faster and I believe mistakes could start occurring!

 

[kis2]

well, now i've got it reading consistenly again, though still heavier than when i loaded. it calls the check weight perfectly.

so *assuming* it is correct with fresh batteries and passing the check weight test, it looks like my actual load for the groups above was more like 43.3gr of varget. if thats true, that might be a little bit of good news for me, maybe i don't need to work up any farther

but that also means i loaded five last night to about 43.9, just under the recommended max.

i'm going to borrow a buddies balance beam scale to compare i think.

 

[USSR]

i have a longer barrel, 24", so i assume i'm getting a little more muzzle velocity. true?

Taking a velocity reading made with another rifle, and extrapolating a velocity reading for your rifle, simply does not work. For example: I have two heavy barreled rifles in .30-06. Both have 26" barrels. Yet, with the very same load, one gets 2950fps, while the other only does 2875fps. There is no substitute for a chronograph.

the max recommended load is 44gr at 2600fps, should i continue to work up to that, or stop where i'm at given the groups i'm averaging? i'm looking to get out to 800yds.

Ah, but what brass was that recommended Max load based on? Chances are, it was brass with much more case capacity than your Prvi brass, which I believe is similar in weight and case capacity to 7.62x51 Nato brass. I would weigh your Prvi brass, and if it weighs in the neighborhood of 180 grains as most 7.62x51 does, then I would reduce that Max load for that brass to 42.5gr. Just MHO.

Don

 

[243winxb]

the max recommended load is 44gr at 2600fps, should i continue to work up to that,

You can,but with the scale problem, who knows?? Only after you know what pressure signs look like. Hard bolt lift-ejector mark on head of brass- expanded web area- primer flowing into bolt face-inlarged/loose primer pocket. Photos here of some> http://www.photobucket.com/joe1944usa

 

[kis2]

i wonder if the local range or someone at it would let me run a few rounds through their chrono...

an average weighing of my prvi brass puts the mean right about 165. what does that mean and what should i buy next time?

thanks

 

[USSR]

an average weighing of my prvi brass puts the mean right about 165. what does that mean and what should i buy next time?

That means it's light like Winchester, and working up to the 44 grain load should be fine.

Don

 

[kis2]

so lighter actually equals more capacity? neat.

i'm imagining i'll only get 5 or so reloads out of these right? what recommendations do you have for when the time to buy brass comes? case life is very important to me, but not at the expense of being able to make match grade. oh and i bought one of those flash whole uniformers, maybe thatll help some.


thanks!

 

[Boxhead]

When I was shooting the 308 nothing beat VV-N550 for velocity and accuracy RL-15 came in a close second, this with 165 gr Hornady's. The VV powder gave an easy 2800 fps and was finely accurate. For a 100 bucks you really should get a Chrony. They work fine and will tell you the truth. Good luck as you explore.

 

[USSR]

i'm imagining i'll only get 5 or so reloads out of these right? what recommendations do you have for when the time to buy brass comes? case life is very important to me, but not at the expense of being able to make match grade.

You should get quite a bit more than 5 reloads from your brass, but alot depends upon how closely you resize your brass to match your chamber. Get a RCBS Precision Mic - that will help you set up your resizing die properly. If you want the best brass, buy Lapua.

Don

 

[Remo-99]

case life is very important to me, but not at the expense of being able to make match grade.

Often a rifle will a have an accuracy point about midway between starting and max charges, and then again at or around max levels.
The lower level charges are much easier on the brass and fine if your only shooting at ~100yds.
However for long range work your proberly gonna be wanting something closer to the max charge, once the scales are sorted out.

It also helps if the rifle has a minimum spec chamber (or close to) as brass will last longer compared to a rifle that has larger tolerances, partitularly when using the upper charge levels.

 

[Wildfire]

They are right.

Hey again.
These guys are right.
#1 , The only way to get it right is a decent chrono.. No matter what.
{No 2 barrels toss the same. }
#2. Digital is nice in some things , but , A good balance beam can not be beat...
As was stated , For accuracy , I also weigh every round, And every round gets the whole works, No averaging of any kind. My .308 PSS will toss one hole at 109 yards. 3" at 500 meters and around 8 to 9" at 1000 yards. All at 2600 Fps.... No record breaker. But good enough for me. I have a Springfield 1000 yard scope on mine and it has no paralax adjustment or I could do better.
I use AA 2520 and it works for me.
The scale you are talking about sounds as if it may get you in trouble.
RCBS makes way to nice of a scale to mess with something that may or may not work.
All my bullets fall right in. I would donate that scale to someone you do not like.

The Chrono is a must if you are to continue ....

 

[Wildfire]

Match brass ?

Hey :
You match the brass. Make the brass fit your gun...
Max loads will reduce how many reloads you will get and more often than not reduce accuracy..
I will say it again . .308 Win. will perform their best at 2500 to 2600 FPS.
Some may get away with more....
I perfer not to.

I have found the Sierra 168 Grain bullets to be the most accurate of the Nosler , and the A-max.. And in that order.
Depends on what you want... You can make a hole ragger out of that 700 P.
The chambers are fine. Work on the brass and the rest will fall in place.
Set primer holes at .132"deep. debur inside and out. trim to exact specs {all being the same} head space at .002" to .003" no more.
Get that bullet seating depth right and play with it till the groups fall in place.

Do not over work the brass and you will get more than 5 reloads.
It was said . The RCBS precision mic will set the bullet depth and the head spacing. Buy one... Learn it...
Tighten down that swivel Bi-pod and use a good hard sand bag at the rear and you will soon see what she will do. Yes, that sun shade will help..

I have tuned these to one hole guns but, Not with fast rounds. All were between 2500 and 2600 FPS..
I have a 700 police in .300 win mag. that I am tuning now. NightForce scope etc.. I hate shooting the .300 mags.. All of the 700 Police and PSS rifles KICK... That solid stock is also why they shoot so well...

I know we are spending a lot of your money here , But , If you want to play you must Pay..

You have a nice rig , don't stop now... Work over time .. cash in your retirement what ever it takes.. I did.........:banghead: