A few questions regarding emergency rifles

[Sam1911]

As for the rimfire inserts, I have two of them for this drilling, one in LR and the other in WMR. They are made by Krieghoff and are "precision made" and shoot on par with a decent 22 rifle.

Have to ask how much barrel length there is to the inserts. I doubt it is only the length of the shotgun chamber.

 

[Maverick223]

^That. It is likely a 16in. or greater adapter.

 

[unwise11]

I'd take an AR-10 type with a 16" barrel, about 5 20 round mags loaded in a small pack, and some extra ammo on stripper clips, Iron sights or a 2-7x32 scope, M4 style stock, It can take down everything in north america with a couple good shots.

 

[Crash_Test_Dhimmi]

My SHTF Gun

Micro Galil
Lightweight, polymer furniture, 35+ round magazines, folding stock, ultra concealable (for a rifle, SBR'd), 5.56, AK durability

 

[Coal Dragger]

For all of those purposes I don't think there is one single right answer.

A good general purpose rifle to have around a cabin, or away from home, or in a light aircraft, or at camp, etc. could probably be just about any good quality functional rifle in any caliber you are comfortable with.

Me personally, I would select a bolt action, most likely a .223 or .308 with my preference being .308. Synthetic stock, short 16"-20" barrel, five round magazine at a minimum, preferably no more than 7.5lbs, good iron sights, and a good low to medium power variable scope on top.

I guess if I were to come up with a dream utility rifle spec, it would be an all stainless controlled round feed bolt action with a M70 style safety, with an 18" light to medium contour stainless chrome lined bbl. Add to that a quality fiberglass stock by McMillan that is glass bedded, with good machined aluminum bottom metal with detachable magazines, and a good crisp trigger. Put a Brockman's custom rear scope base with integrated peep sight on (Talley style bases) and a Trijicon 1-4X24 for shooting in any light conditions on top, and a good hooded front sight on the barrel. Then coat it all in non glare, weatherproof finishes (except for the scope).

For backpacking where you want to really cut weight, and not frighten the sheeple.... well I'll carry a magnum revolver.

 

[DM~]

YES it's still an 8mm bore, and all of the big game animals hit with the 200NP's out of it, are still dead. The power level is on par with a 30-06, and that's plenty for everything up to big bears. The 8mm Nosler's are one of the best big game bullets i've ever fired at an animal.

As for the Krieghoff inserts: They came in two lengths, short at about 7" and long at about 17". They both are VERY accurate, and once sighted in, ALWAYS come back to being "perfectly sighted" in, over and over.

Like a Timex, it just keeps on ticking! lol

White tails don't stand a chance, as long as i do my part!



DM

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

if I had the funding for it an over/under rifle/shotty would be ideal but I would have a piece of foam strapped to the pack it is in for floatation purposes. I have an AR7 - it does me well, a Henry. ammo sensitive for sure and don't grasp the magazine when shooting - a common mistake many make. the feed lips are intregal with the magazine and are position sensitive.
some members on the AR7 group have 'shimmed' the mag well to good effect.
mine shoots well but takes some getting used to due to stock contour. I use the small aperture of the rear sight - and get good shooting, plenty good for game. I sight in dead on @25yds and it's dern close @50. about the limit of this little carbine. still could drop a whitetail with a head/neck juncture shot though. with mini-mags. or superx's.
I've taken many rabbit and squirrel and a few tree-sitting dove and grouse w/it. no doubt it would whack a coon or fox or beaver for the stew pot.

 

[Motega]

(edited)

 

[Dr.Rob]

To the original poster: see what bush pilots in Alaska are required to carry in a plane, namely a 12 gauge shotgun. 5 slugs and a box of bird shot and a few flares could cover most survival situations that assume some one is actively LOOKING for you.

You could further consider the arms the US and USSR provided downed pilots and astronauts for such an emergency. Neither issued a semi automatic center fire rifle for 'survival'.

 

[DM~]

To the original poster: see what bush pilots in Alaska are required to carry in a plane, namely a 12 gauge shotgun. 5 slugs and a box of bird shot and a few flares could cover most survival situations that assume some one is actively LOOKING for you.

You could further consider the arms the US and USSR provided downed pilots and astronauts for such an emergency. Neither issued a semi automatic center fire rifle for 'survival'.

Required to carry??? That would be a new one on me! Most only carry a 22 IF they carry a long gun at all, some will carry a personal handgun, but not all of them do, at least that's what i've seen from flying with many different bush pilots all over Ak..

All of them carry a little freeze dried food and a spoace blanket plus a few other things, but i've never seen a shotgun requirement.

DM

 

[Axel Larson]

I would go for either a over/under or side by side 12 gouge shot or a bolt action with a 16 inch barrel maybe an m44 mosin although that is a little heavy. I would not use a lever action because if I had to field strip it there are too many small parts in that type of action. Where a good bolt action has very few small parts or at least the ones I have seen taken apart do not have small parts.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Required was a strong word. My understanding is a shotgun is the most common survival arm up there.

I know some sea kayakers that were required to pack a shotgun, and came in very handy in an emergency.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

One that would ALSO work in a defensive role is the good old AK variant. Not as light as a stripped down lever gun or M1 Carbine, etc, it rings my bell because it is utterly reliable and rugged, simple to operate, and there are options for large quantities of military ammo (which should be a little more resistent to water and deterioration than regular commercial ammo). Stash a $400-$600 AK and some mags and ammo, and you have a long term emergency gun that will bring down the biggest bear (can you say 30 rounds of AP ammo in 2-3 seconds?), or stand off other multiple attackers. At close range, you should be able to take small game with placed shots and not damage the meat. Very versatile gun, and very intimidating, should you need to show armed strength. I cannot think of a more compact (folding stock model) rifle that can do as much. If 7.62x39 is too heavy a caliber, they make them in 5.45x39, allowing for a lighter gun and the ability to carry equal amounts of ammo with less weight.

 

[Unistat]

We have two. An SU-16 B and a Springfield M-6 Scout. One for my emergency kit and one for the wife's.

 

[Cosmoline]

There are a lot of "cabin guns" around here, and aircraft guns. Most of the ones posted in this thread are *WAY* too fancy and valuable for such a job. Typical cabin guns would be a beater .22 LR bolt action and/or a beater Ruger M77 in .338 WM or .30'06. You have to figure anything getting left out there stands a good chance of getting rusty, getting tossed around by invading bears, or getting stolen.

For aircraft the .22 LR is a typical emergency gun, sometimes in the form of those survival M-6 type ones that float. It used to be a requirement under state law, but I think they dropped that. I've also seen the take-down leverguns in this role, but those you would NOT be leaving behind. They're way too expensive.

The old Topper 88 type shotguns are also very common.

Required to carry??? That would be a new one on me!

FYI, this is the current code:

http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/Statutes/Title02/Chapter35/Section110.htm

Until a few years ago the code also famously included this requirement:

(D) one pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, and ammunition for same;

It was dropped, but I'm not sure why. It's possible there were some insurance hangups involved for contractors flying around on jobs. In practice, general aviation pilots will have firearms whether they are official or not.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Thanks for chiming in Cosmo, I knew that there was a firearm requirement at some time. But I do stand corrected.

I know when my dad was stationed at Ft. Yukon you couldn't leave the base without a firearm, the 'issued' rifle was a 30-30. It was strictly for survival as a couple guys left on a fishing trip, got stuck in the middle of nowhere and had a run in with a bear.

You also packed a 44 to the outhouse at one of the fishing camps. The claw marks on the outhouse door made many an airman nervous.

 

[mac66]

Never been to Alaska but I did spend considerable time living in a tent in the UP of Michigan in the 1970s. During the 1980's my day pack rifle was this cut down folding stock 10/22 with a detachable bbl made by Ramline. Very light and compact.



I've also used this Snakecharmer .410 single shot on excursions with slugs, buck and birdshot. It is often carried in my ATV. It holds 4 shells in the stock. I put a butt stock carrier and a sling on mine and it carries 10 extra shells. It is up at my cabin with the ATV.



An old Charter Arms Ar7 has been used, usually without the bulky plastic stock. I have an aftermarket collapsible stock for it. If you take off the pistol grip it makes a real compact lightweight rifle, only about 2#s. It has never been particularly reliable or accurate, but I have shot rabbits, squirrels and birds with it.

 

[armoredman]

Thank you, Dr Rob, but this wasn't aimed at strictly survival rifles, but general purpose emergency, anything FROM survival to bear attack to, (insert favorite wilderness happening here), anything that doesn't include alien invasion or nazi zombies. :O If I knew I was going into a situation with multiple opponets, I would take my vz-58, and all my buddies with long guns, too. No, actually, I act as an FO outside the target area and call in artillery fire! I probably would carry the vz-58 in many circustances, pretty lightweight, lightweight magazines.
I have been experimenting with my CZ 527M as a campers'/escapers'/backpacking rifle, reliable accurate bolt action in 7.62x39mm, just put a folding adjustable rear sight on it. Trying for a nylon butt pack that will securely hold two spare mags and the allen wrench that takes off the Picatinny rail the scope is mounted on, and thinking of a radical poly stock setup, but that is unlikley - very cost prohibitive to have a one-of made. Also looking for a short lightweight low power scope, 2-7 or such, to put on it sometime, smaller and lighter.
I was curious what other people thought of as a general purpose lightweight emergency rifle. The responses have been very interesting, especially when most thought I meant survival, when that wasn't the main thrust. Not all emergencies requiring a long gun mean trying long term survival in the woods - I would SUCK at that, never cleaned or cooked a single critter. Truth, never managed to find anyone to teach me how to hunt, oh well.
If after this revelation anyone has any more constructive comments I am all ears.

 

[pbkluther]

I believe any .22 rifle would be the most useful, if one feels they need more gun perhaps a marlin 1894 .44 mag

 

[Maverick223]

That being the case I believe that the climate/locale would be of vital importance. In AK the VZ.58 (much less a CZ-527) might prove woefully inadequate for some of the large beasts/bruins that one might encounter, whereas a Marlin 1895GG takedown model or a SxS 12Ga. "coach gun" would afford satisfactory performance...in AZ or NC the VZ.58 or CZ-527 would likely work quite well for most any emergency/survival situation.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

It was dropped, but I'm not sure why. It's possible there were some insurance hangups involved for contractors flying around on jobs. In practice, general aviation pilots will have firearms whether they are official or not.

It was very much a requirement to have a gun as part of your survival gear in a plane in AK and I know of what I speak, I earned my pilot license at Merrill and as a student pilot I aways had a .22 pistol in my flight bag, hoping some know-it-all instructor would ask to see my gun. No one did:banghead:

The requirement was dropped because it is very common to fly to or from the lower 48 over Canada and as you know Canada and guns don't mix.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

There are a lot of "cabin guns" around here, and aircraft guns. Most of the ones posted in this thread are *WAY* too fancy and valuable for such a job. Typical cabin guns would be a beater .22 LR bolt action and/or a beater Ruger M77 in .338 WM or .30'06. You have to figure anything getting left out there stands a good chance of getting rusty, getting tossed around by invading bears, or getting stolen.

Yeah I have found some of these choices entertaining. I have been in many "old time" trappers cabins [by old time I mean the real deal-they live in the cabin all winter, miles and miles from civilization] and have yet to see a folding AK or a drilling. Lots of .22 rifles and 1903 Springfield's though.

 

[Malamute]

Yeah I have found some of these choices entertaining. I have been in many "old time" trappers cabins [by old time I mean the real deal-they live in the cabin all winter, miles and miles from civilization] and have yet to see a folding AK or a drilling. Lots of .22 rifles and 1903 Springfield's though.

I'm often amused at all the suggestions of folding AK's (or almost any folding gun) for any purpose other than getting in and out of small vehicles. Making a gun shorter does not mean it's handier for carrying, often the opposite is true. The folders I've had tend to be bulky and awkward to carry in general compared to the fixed stock models of the same gun, and generally poorer shooting qualities to top it off. The same could be said for most self loaders, bulky and awkward to carry, especially compared to a lever action or good sporter bolt gun.

I mostly carry a rifle in my hand, I guess if someone always carried it slung self loaders may not be as much of a nuisance to carry, but magazines and other pokey-outy and sharp edged stuff isnt comfortable against my back and body.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

It doesn't surprise me that the vast majority of cabin dwellers don't bother with tactical weapon and store single shot .22's and old shotguns for "cabin" weapons. They don't get out much, or try to keep up with anyone else's idea of armaments. I find it disappointing, though, that people diss an AK folder as something to shrug off. If you tell yourself they are heavy, hard to shoot, a waste of time, I'm sure you can convince yourself of same. You get what you pay for, and for the little extra weight, or handling trade off for protability, the AK folder is a "survivor bargain" for it's size, stowability, and versatility. We never were talking first line hunting rifle OR battle rifle....we were talking about a stowable emergency rifle. Compare the AK to a lighter fast handling gun known to many: the M1 carbine.

[/IMG] The carbine is lighter, but much less efficent due to power, range, and durability. You can find a lighter, smaller, handier emergency weapon than the AK folder, but you'd be hardpressed to fine a more versatile one. This one fits in a surplus, water resistent GI M60 barrel bag, and lots of ammo and other gear can go in the two pockets on te side. Carry it in or out of the bag, as needed, or stow it behind a vehicle seat or in a trunk. Add some first aid and other portable survival gear, and it might even be a one bag grab in a dire situation. I find it a little less comfortable to shoot than a full stock AK, but it can do what it is supposed to do out to 200 yards with ease.

[/IMG]

 

[Malamute]

...They don't get out much, or try to keep up with anyone else's idea of armaments. I find it disappointing, though, that people diss an AK folder as something to shrug off. If you tell yourself they are heavy, hard to shoot, a waste of time, I'm sure you can convince yourself of same....

"Don't get out much", not sure what that means. I've felt that most that propose most self loaders for carrying around in the woods or hills don't get out much and actually carry a gun around. I get out walking (meaning carrying a long gun) several times a week if not daily, and have for most of the last 30 years.


"If you tell yourself they are heavy, hard to shoot, a waste of time, I'm sure you can convince yourself of same"

I convinced myself of that after owning 8 or 10 AK's. Some were fixed stocks, some were folders, both under and side. I had high hopes for them, but to me, they are chunky and clunky so far as actually carrying one compared to a Winchester lever gun or bolt action sporter, and not as generally useful in the field. I just wanted to point that out, since it seemed to be hinted at that those that didn't care for them as woods guns didnt have much experience with them, or much woods experience, or something.

The chunky and clunky is also my impression of M1A's, M1 Garands, H-K 91's, AR's, SKS's, and most bolt actions in military clothes compared to Winchester levers and sporter bolt actions. I thought they all were pretty interesting, and seemed to offer a lot, but after carrying them around and using them, I felt they were generally lacking in many ways compared to Winchesters and sporter bolts in actual real life day to day carrying and use. Just my experience. Obviously, YMMV.

Reagrding reliability, perhaps I've been really unlucky, but I've experienced more malfunctions with the various AK's I've had than all the 30 or so Winchesters and bolt guns put together, by several times. Not saying there were a lot, just more than the other action types combined, and many more guns of each. So "reliability" wouldnt be an overiding reason to use a gun that didn't handle as well and had the other shortcomings mentioned above.