A question for you 9mm types...
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Let's see: Factory-made 9mm ammo is still relatively inexpensive, especially when buying in bulk. If you find a "deal", you buy it, and it will set you back, say, no more than $130 for 1,000 rounds, including either gas money or shipping charges.
Reloading 9mm requires that you already have the brass, bullets, primers, gunpowder, reloading equipment/tumbler and the patience to fiddle with those small casings. Add to that, the TIME you have to put into the reloading procedures.
Even if you reload for other calibers, you have to figure in a part of the overall costs of your equipment when talking about reloading 9mm rounds.
Just a guess-timate on my part, but a "bulk" amount of 1,000 rounds of 9mm ammo will run you VERY close to that $130 cost of the factory-made rounds, especially if take into account a "reasonable" per-hour cost of the TIME involved in reloading that amount.
A negative aspect should also be considered. Your "home-grown" ammo is, most likely, NOT covered by any type of "liability insurance", so you'd be taking a chance by allowing even your "best buddy" to shoot your reloads. I don't want to sound like I'm paranoid, but I certainly am cautious! I've known two "professional" reloaders who ran into legal problems in the past. One of them was found "not negligent", but it STILL cost him thousands of $$$$ in attorney fees! The other was found to be "criminally negligent", had to pay a VERY stiff penalty, plus a humongous amount for his idiot lawyer! BOTH, by the way, had "liability insurance"! BOTH are NO longer "professionally" reloading ammo for sale to the public!
Reloading 9mm requires that you already have the brass, bullets, primers, gunpowder, reloading equipment/tumbler and the patience to fiddle with those small casings. Add to that, the TIME you have to put into the reloading procedures.
Even if you reload for other calibers, you have to figure in a part of the overall costs of your equipment when talking about reloading 9mm rounds.
Just a guess-timate on my part, but a "bulk" amount of 1,000 rounds of 9mm ammo will run you VERY close to that $130 cost of the factory-made rounds, especially if take into account a "reasonable" per-hour cost of the TIME involved in reloading that amount.
A negative aspect should also be considered. Your "home-grown" ammo is, most likely, NOT covered by any type of "liability insurance", so you'd be taking a chance by allowing even your "best buddy" to shoot your reloads. I don't want to sound like I'm paranoid, but I certainly am cautious! I've known two "professional" reloaders who ran into legal problems in the past. One of them was found "not negligent", but it STILL cost him thousands of $$$$ in attorney fees! The other was found to be "criminally negligent", had to pay a VERY stiff penalty, plus a humongous amount for his idiot lawyer! BOTH, by the way, had "liability insurance"! BOTH are NO longer "professionally" reloading ammo for sale to the public!
It is hard to buy the componets to reload 9mm for much less than $100 pre 1000. If you buy the cases, FMJ bullets, primers and powder, you are going to be very close to $100 even if you re-use the cases several times. Then, you have to factor in all the reloading equipment. Not all of it is a one time purchase, some items will need to be replaced. Don't forget shipping and/or taxes.
If you were just going to reload 9mm FMJs for practice, it would be hard to make it pay. If you were going to reload self defense type ammo, it would be a little cheaper. I wouldn't carry my own reloaded self defense ammo. I just don't think it is a good idea for a host of reasons. The only squibs I have ever seen were from reloads. The only double charges I have ever seen were from reloads. The only backwards primers I have ever seen in a case were from reloads. The split cases I have ever seen were from reloads. I could go on and on. In good quality ammo like CCI, Winchester, Rem etcd., the only problems I have had were dud primers and most of the time, a second blow made them go off. I trust even cheap factory ammo to any handloads from anybody. Everybody thinks they can do better than factory but I know better.
One other thing, my time is worth something. If I spend 16 hours making 1000rds of 9mm, I just lost what amounts to two days worth of work. That is close to $400 I am losing in time. Add that to the other costs and a case of home made 9mm costs at least $450 to me. I am not going to take off work to make ammo but you get the idea. It is the same reason that I pay someone to change my oil and re-roof my house. It is not worth my time to do some tasks. It is better to pay someone who has all the tools and can probably do a better job.
I recently bought a privacy fence. Some of my friends and family told me that I should just do it myself and save some money. I considered this but after I ran the numbers, I would only have saved about $500 and the materials I could have bought from Home Depot or Lowes are not as high quality as the fence company I went with. The privacy fence at Home Depot is low quality and I know people that bought and when it was delivered, some of the boards were broke or had flaws. After factoring in all the materials, tools I would need and items that I would use like nails, concrete, etc., I decided that I would rather pay $2500 for a pro to do what would cost me about $2000 and a TON of hard work. I would get a better made and installed fence and have a warrenty. My point is, some things just don't pay to do yourself. Can I build a fence or roof a house myself? Yes. Do I want to? No. Can I do as good a job as someone that does it for a living? Maybe but it would take me three times as long.
I am not against reloading, I reload the more expensive stuff for pratice. All my serious ammo is factory stuff however. There are some things that I don't trust anyone else to do for me. I won't pay anyone to work on a gun for me. I know that they won't so as good of a job I will do. I don't care that it takes me three times as long, I am going for prefection not speed. The funny thing is, do a better job and most of the time, I save some money. I am not saying that I am a gunsmith but I would call most of the morons that are called gunsmiths, gunsmiths. I have never met a true gunsmith, most of them are just hilljacks that can't make it doing somthing else so they work on Billy Bob's hunting rifle. Billy Bob knows even less than the "gunsmith" so he doesn't know what a poor job he is doing.
If you were just going to reload 9mm FMJs for practice, it would be hard to make it pay. If you were going to reload self defense type ammo, it would be a little cheaper. I wouldn't carry my own reloaded self defense ammo. I just don't think it is a good idea for a host of reasons. The only squibs I have ever seen were from reloads. The only double charges I have ever seen were from reloads. The only backwards primers I have ever seen in a case were from reloads. The split cases I have ever seen were from reloads. I could go on and on. In good quality ammo like CCI, Winchester, Rem etcd., the only problems I have had were dud primers and most of the time, a second blow made them go off. I trust even cheap factory ammo to any handloads from anybody. Everybody thinks they can do better than factory but I know better.
One other thing, my time is worth something. If I spend 16 hours making 1000rds of 9mm, I just lost what amounts to two days worth of work. That is close to $400 I am losing in time. Add that to the other costs and a case of home made 9mm costs at least $450 to me. I am not going to take off work to make ammo but you get the idea. It is the same reason that I pay someone to change my oil and re-roof my house. It is not worth my time to do some tasks. It is better to pay someone who has all the tools and can probably do a better job.
I recently bought a privacy fence. Some of my friends and family told me that I should just do it myself and save some money. I considered this but after I ran the numbers, I would only have saved about $500 and the materials I could have bought from Home Depot or Lowes are not as high quality as the fence company I went with. The privacy fence at Home Depot is low quality and I know people that bought and when it was delivered, some of the boards were broke or had flaws. After factoring in all the materials, tools I would need and items that I would use like nails, concrete, etc., I decided that I would rather pay $2500 for a pro to do what would cost me about $2000 and a TON of hard work. I would get a better made and installed fence and have a warrenty. My point is, some things just don't pay to do yourself. Can I build a fence or roof a house myself? Yes. Do I want to? No. Can I do as good a job as someone that does it for a living? Maybe but it would take me three times as long.
I am not against reloading, I reload the more expensive stuff for pratice. All my serious ammo is factory stuff however. There are some things that I don't trust anyone else to do for me. I won't pay anyone to work on a gun for me. I know that they won't so as good of a job I will do. I don't care that it takes me three times as long, I am going for prefection not speed. The funny thing is, do a better job and most of the time, I save some money. I am not saying that I am a gunsmith but I would call most of the morons that are called gunsmiths, gunsmiths. I have never met a true gunsmith, most of them are just hilljacks that can't make it doing somthing else so they work on Billy Bob's hunting rifle. Billy Bob knows even less than the "gunsmith" so he doesn't know what a poor job he is doing.
TimboKhan
Member
English,
My dad sold my buddy (Rockstar.esq) a Lee Anniversary kit, and he has been very happy with it. Drop him a PM if you want, I know he would be happy to answer any questions you have!
My dad sold my buddy (Rockstar.esq) a Lee Anniversary kit, and he has been very happy with it. Drop him a PM if you want, I know he would be happy to answer any questions you have!
english kanigit
Member
I think I'll be going with the Anniversery set. I'll set up for the 9mm first and then add my rifle dies later.
.45 acp dies will come along once I get that blasted slide fixed or replaced...:banghead:
Thanks for the help guys. If you would like to add anything else feel free, I'm not the only person with this question I'm sure...
.45 acp dies will come along once I get that blasted slide fixed or replaced...:banghead:
Thanks for the help guys. If you would like to add anything else feel free, I'm not the only person with this question I'm sure...
sm
member
I barter most times.
I never got into metallic reloading. So I had some trusted folks that did metallic, and I did the shotshell. Effective and economical for both parties.
Now I don't shoot as I used to or want to. I have what I need here handy for carry loads and some target loads made with Montana Gold Bullets.
I save brass.
Now I was given a case of Blazer 9mm for services rendered here awhile back, all shot in one day save for 2 boxes.
I not long ago went out and cranked out 5k+ rds of shotshells using some elses' equipment, since my reloaders are put up at this time. In return I rec'd some factory loadings and reloaded ammo in 9mm, .45ACP and .38spl.
I'm hell on wheels with a Mec 9000, and still gots the touch with a Single stage.
Save brass and barter - works for me.
What guns? What payment? What ammo?
I never got into metallic reloading. So I had some trusted folks that did metallic, and I did the shotshell. Effective and economical for both parties.
Now I don't shoot as I used to or want to. I have what I need here handy for carry loads and some target loads made with Montana Gold Bullets.
I save brass.
Now I was given a case of Blazer 9mm for services rendered here awhile back, all shot in one day save for 2 boxes.
I not long ago went out and cranked out 5k+ rds of shotshells using some elses' equipment, since my reloaders are put up at this time. In return I rec'd some factory loadings and reloaded ammo in 9mm, .45ACP and .38spl.
I'm hell on wheels with a Mec 9000, and still gots the touch with a Single stage.
Save brass and barter - works for me.
What guns? What payment? What ammo?
Sheldon
Member
I have a pretty good collection of reloading gear. Currently the presses are set up as follows: One Dillon 650 in 45 ACP, another 650 in 9mm, and a 550B in .38 Special. I reload just about everything I shoot. If you can get the same quality for a better price than reloading your own, then do it. I got 10,000 9mm bullets (115 gr FMJ) for $300, so it is still cheaper to reload 9mm for me. I use lead SWC bullets for all my other pistols. I have used lead in the 9mm as well, but it seems to like the FMJ or plated better.
entropy
Member
And your no P.O. Ackley, either.
A wise man knows how little he indeed knows.
+1, halvey.
So, albanian, what's your profession, so that I may formulate a proper response?
robertbank
Member
Well I drool when I read what you folks pay for ammo but that being said I reload and cast everything I shoot. Just part of the total sport for me.
Brass I get for nothing, last week I picked up 150lbs of wheelweights for FREE, man the fisherman buy all the wheelweights around here for casting weights. So my rounds cost me the price of primers which run up here about $3.25 per hundred Canadian or about $2.80 US. Powder is expensive due to shipping (a (Unique for the 9MM) but I usuall I get down to the US once or twice a year and get four lbs at a crack as well as buying 5,000 primers at a time for around $13.00/1,000 US.
I cast 124 gr truncated bullets from wheelweights which shoot well in my four nines. Accuracy is as good as I can shoot. Never have experienced leading in any of my guns.
I guess for me it allows me to shoot a ton more. TIme means nothing to me and I enjoy all aspects of reloading. Load .38S&W, .38spl/.357MAg, .41LC, 9MM, .45acp, .45 Colt and .30-06 all with my own cast bullets. all on a Dillon 550. One day I'll get a 2nd Dillon I hope.
Stay Safe
Brass I get for nothing, last week I picked up 150lbs of wheelweights for FREE, man the fisherman buy all the wheelweights around here for casting weights. So my rounds cost me the price of primers which run up here about $3.25 per hundred Canadian or about $2.80 US. Powder is expensive due to shipping (a (Unique for the 9MM) but I usuall I get down to the US once or twice a year and get four lbs at a crack as well as buying 5,000 primers at a time for around $13.00/1,000 US.
I cast 124 gr truncated bullets from wheelweights which shoot well in my four nines. Accuracy is as good as I can shoot. Never have experienced leading in any of my guns.
I guess for me it allows me to shoot a ton more. TIme means nothing to me and I enjoy all aspects of reloading. Load .38S&W, .38spl/.357MAg, .41LC, 9MM, .45acp, .45 Colt and .30-06 all with my own cast bullets. all on a Dillon 550. One day I'll get a 2nd Dillon I hope.
Stay Safe
StrikeEagle
Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2004
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- 709
What is it with you guys and this 'small casing' stuff?
I reload everything I shoot from year to year including .32 ACP and ,32 S&W. I even reload .25 ACP. I do admit those cases *are* small... but appealingly so, IMO. And the little bullets seated in front of that grain of powder are charming and jewel-like.
I just don't see a 9mm case being called 'small' though!
StrikeEagle
rockstar.esq
Member
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2004
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- 1,475
TimboKhan said:
Roger that, 9mm is generally a high volume caliber for your's truly and the time spent to load up the requisit rounds would certainly be better spent on calibers that respond better to it both in terms of finance and accuracy.
I handload a lot of subsonic 9mm for my suppressors. I buy 9mm bullets in bulk from Midway in lots of at least 1000.
I have no idea what this costs me, and, I don't care. I like my own load and that is why I do it.
If I had to load 9mm on a Lee Handpress, I definitely couldn't be bothered. Wow. That would be tedious. I am doing all my loading on a Dillion 550 and it is still tedious. I don't care if I could load a case of ammo for five bucks, I don't know if I am man enough to load that much ammo on a hand press. And, I actually own a handpress.
I have no idea what this costs me, and, I don't care. I like my own load and that is why I do it.
If I had to load 9mm on a Lee Handpress, I definitely couldn't be bothered. Wow. That would be tedious. I am doing all my loading on a Dillion 550 and it is still tedious. I don't care if I could load a case of ammo for five bucks, I don't know if I am man enough to load that much ammo on a hand press. And, I actually own a handpress.
9x19
I reload, but not since last D-day, all of my own centerfire handgun ammunition, and cast all of the lead bullets I use in my centerfire handguns. It allows me to custom tailor my cartridges to the task at hand, and I am a serious competition handgun shooter in several disciplines.
I reload, but not since last D-day, all of my own centerfire handgun ammunition, and cast all of the lead bullets I use in my centerfire handguns. It allows me to custom tailor my cartridges to the task at hand, and I am a serious competition handgun shooter in several disciplines.
Sunray
Member
Reloading isn't about saving money. It's about using the best possible ammo in your firearm. When you reload, you're tailoring the ammo to your firearm.
"...There are some things that I don't trust anyone else to do for me..." But you'll let somebody sell you generic ammo? No factory ammo will be as good as ammo tailored to your firearm. Shouldn't take anywhere near 16 hours to load 1,000 rounds either. Well, maybe with a Lee Loader.
"...There are some things that I don't trust anyone else to do for me..." But you'll let somebody sell you generic ammo? No factory ammo will be as good as ammo tailored to your firearm. Shouldn't take anywhere near 16 hours to load 1,000 rounds either. Well, maybe with a Lee Loader.
GunAdmirer
Member
I reload 9mm because:
1. I get all the cases for free. None of my friends reload 9mm because it isn't cost effective
2. Powder and primers are cheap and readily available.
3. Plated bullets are good and cheap.
4. Reloading lets you pick the quality components you want.
5. I can control the power level of the rounds.
6. I can check each round for powder (single stage).
7. I reload for other more expensive calibers that more than pays for the equipment. I'm only out the money for 9mm dies and bullets.
8. I enjoy reloading so my time is not a cost factor.
I have a great 9mm round that is great for IDPA and plinking. You simply can't buy ammo like mine. I think my 9mm ammo is as good (better) as any you can buy.
That being said, there are people who shouldn't reload 9mm (or any other caliber for that matter).
People who don't have the patience or conscientiousness for reloading
People who can't follow directions
People who don't like to reload
People who don't have time to reload
1. I get all the cases for free. None of my friends reload 9mm because it isn't cost effective
2. Powder and primers are cheap and readily available.
3. Plated bullets are good and cheap.
4. Reloading lets you pick the quality components you want.
5. I can control the power level of the rounds.
6. I can check each round for powder (single stage).
7. I reload for other more expensive calibers that more than pays for the equipment. I'm only out the money for 9mm dies and bullets.
8. I enjoy reloading so my time is not a cost factor.
I have a great 9mm round that is great for IDPA and plinking. You simply can't buy ammo like mine. I think my 9mm ammo is as good (better) as any you can buy.
That being said, there are people who shouldn't reload 9mm (or any other caliber for that matter).
People who don't have the patience or conscientiousness for reloading
People who can't follow directions
People who don't like to reload
People who don't have time to reload
Strings
Member
I always hear "NEVER trust reloads for defensive purposes". So... I should trust a factory more than myself? I don't think so...
I work up a load for every gun we (Spoon and I) own. When we get a second gun in the same caliber, I check the "chosen load" in it: if it preforms to a similar level, we keep using it. For social ammo, it's usually a hollow point of some kind. For practice, an FMJ in the same weight...
So yes, I do reload 9mm. And the best deal I've ever seen for a reloader is the Lee Turret press.Takes me roughly 2 minutes to set up for a different caliber...
I work up a load for every gun we (Spoon and I) own. When we get a second gun in the same caliber, I check the "chosen load" in it: if it preforms to a similar level, we keep using it. For social ammo, it's usually a hollow point of some kind. For practice, an FMJ in the same weight...
So yes, I do reload 9mm. And the best deal I've ever seen for a reloader is the Lee Turret press.Takes me roughly 2 minutes to set up for a different caliber...
entropy
Member
Actually, the reason for the caveat against reloads for self-defense is legal issues, not reliability. (Well, depending on one's reloads, I guess.)
[Prosecuting Atty] So, Hunter Rose, good old factory ammunition loads weren't good enough for you. No Ma'am, you didn't think that was harmful enough. You had to go the extra mile and make your own bullets (sic) with those deadly cop-killing (insert your favorite bullet here), didn't you? Well, didn't you? Answer the question, yes or no? [/Prosecuting Atty]
Anti DA's dream of these sorts of things dropping in their lap so they can kill two birds with one stone; You, and furthering their own anti 2A agenda.
Say what you want about Massad Ayoob's firing techniques, but the man has spent plenty of time in the courtroom on both sides of shooting cases, and he brings up this very subject in his books and columns. It has happened. It may not happen to you, but it could.
[Prosecuting Atty] So, Hunter Rose, good old factory ammunition loads weren't good enough for you. No Ma'am, you didn't think that was harmful enough. You had to go the extra mile and make your own bullets (sic) with those deadly cop-killing (insert your favorite bullet here), didn't you? Well, didn't you? Answer the question, yes or no? [/Prosecuting Atty]
Anti DA's dream of these sorts of things dropping in their lap so they can kill two birds with one stone; You, and furthering their own anti 2A agenda.
Say what you want about Massad Ayoob's firing techniques, but the man has spent plenty of time in the courtroom on both sides of shooting cases, and he brings up this very subject in his books and columns. It has happened. It may not happen to you, but it could.
goalie
Member
albanian said:
-Primers = $15/1000 (Local shop)
-Bullets = $42/1000 (MidwayUSA, 115 grain FMJ Remington)
-Power Pistol = $13/1000 (Local shop, figured by 7,000 grains per pound, and 6.2 grains PP per 9mm round)
-Brass (once fired, prepped) $25.89/1000 (so $2.60/1000 if used 10 times) Again, from MidwayUSA
That adds up to $72.60 for a thousand (spreading out the brass cost over each 1000, since it is re-used) That's a pretty-penny less than you can buy it for, even bulk, and it's going to be better ammo as well if you know what you're doing.
Just to be fair, let's say you only average 5 reloading per 9mm case, that would still make the brass $5.18/1000, raising the total cost per 1000 rounds to a whopping $75.18/1000.
If you are willing to shoot plated or lead, you can do it a whole lot cheaper. I personally stick to FMJ 9mm rounds though.
Talk about lazy...I reload to avoid a trip to the store. This way, I always have a few hundred rounds. Have to admit when I get really lazy I just buy a few boxes of WWB.
However, my 9mm is for my PM9 only. All other shooting is done with everything but 9.
However, my 9mm is for my PM9 only. All other shooting is done with everything but 9.
Strings
Member
*sigh*
>[Prosecuting Atty] So, Hunter Rose, good old factory ammunition loads weren't good enough for you...<
This idea has been presented so many times that it makes me sick. Name ONE instance where the ammunition used in a shooting was a reload, and it was brought up in trial (either civil or criminal), and I'll believe you. Haven't heard of one yet...
I have respect Ayoob for his traininf ability, and his skills as an expert witness. But that whole "anti DAs have wet dreams about busting a gunny over the use of reloaded ammo in self defense" is no more real than the escaped psycho with a hook for a hand...
And by the way, I'm a guy. SO calling me "ma'am" would probably have the DA kinda messed with anyway...
>[Prosecuting Atty] So, Hunter Rose, good old factory ammunition loads weren't good enough for you...<
This idea has been presented so many times that it makes me sick. Name ONE instance where the ammunition used in a shooting was a reload, and it was brought up in trial (either civil or criminal), and I'll believe you. Haven't heard of one yet...
I have respect Ayoob for his traininf ability, and his skills as an expert witness. But that whole "anti DAs have wet dreams about busting a gunny over the use of reloaded ammo in self defense" is no more real than the escaped psycho with a hook for a hand...
And by the way, I'm a guy. SO calling me "ma'am" would probably have the DA kinda messed with anyway...
english kanigit
Member
I understand your argument but has this even been attempted in court? I thought that lethal force was lethal force no matter 'how lethal' it was...
If you go by that thought then why even use hollow points?
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