A soldiers thoughts on the M9

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1988 serving a ground tour with 3rd MARDIV (Okinawa) our Battalion transitioned from the M1911 to the M9. Being a small arms enthusiast I was excited at being issued a new T/O sidearm. As it turned out I was never able to warm up to the 9mm (disappointed). Fact is I was a relatively smallish guy at 5'9" /155 lbs. Never could get my hands around that double stack grip. While still qualifying expert, I was never able to shoot as well as I did with the M1911. I think it's a fine sidearm..just too large for the hands God issued me.

Fast forward to 1990-91, 1st Gulf War back with the Wing assigned to an Attack Squadron; I made arrangements to fly with a 1911. Retired from active duty 1998.
OK; so call me a dinosaur...my EDC is still more often than not an M1911.
 
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Polymer's in the Service

I'd much prefer carrying my BHP over it any day.

My belief however is that no polymer pistol could handle what line troops put their M9s through.

I think the BHP's used in Europe had problems with the higher pressure 9mm NATO.



Any opinions about a polymer handling what M9's go through? The Glock "torture tests" came to mind.
 
Um, YES. ANY polymer pistol will hold up better to the abuse. The polymer doesn't ding every time it hits something hard, getting in and out of vehicles, being dragged across the ground as you grab your gear, etc. It has some flex, which lets it absorb the repeated impact of firing better than metal. It will withstand as much heat as a steel or aluminum frame will and still be safe. And oh yeah, it will never rust.

Is it REALLY 2012 and there is still someone who thimks that plast pistols are junk?
 
I definitely don't think polymer pistols are junk, I own a couple. I've seen M9s used for all kinds of things including hammers and pry bars. I wasn't referring to the actual abuse a firearm by nature receives. Just my opinion of course, and I'm open to being wrong.
 
The OP asked about the opinions of soldiers, presumably those who had been issued the M9. He didn't say "in combat" but I took that to be implied.

So, lots of replies, some from soldiers, only a couple from people who had actually fired an M9 "in anger."

The others are blowing wind.

Jim
 
Since the number of soldiers who have used a handgun, not just carried one, in combat is probably less than one percent, it's no surprise that we don't see too many comments here about true combat engagement use of the issue sidearm. Since the OP was asking specifically about the Beretta, and didn't specify "combat use", we should be happy with the direct answers from those who have used or carried the Beretta M9, and dismiss the rest of the comments as unrelated to the question. I have found this thread interesting and informative, in spite of the tangents we sometimes have gone off on. Let's have more "on track".
 
So, Jim, by that logic, if I fired one round and killed an enemy soldier, I am more qualified to evaluate the M9 than someone who has fired thousands of rounds in training? Seriously?
 
Ok, I'll back off the tone a little. But yeah, I would rather have a polymer frame in that kind of environment.
I have to disagree there, to at least some extent. I don't mind a poly pistol in the desert, but the combination of poly pistol with poly mag (think GLOCK) when mixed with sand creates magazine drop problems. When I was over there, we had some DEA LEOs sourced to us to help with counter-narcotics operations we were running. They all carried Glock 19C, and they all scrambled to find a spare M9 when they found their mags got "sticky" from the sand in the mag well. You can talk all you want about proper maintenance, but if you know what "moon dust" is, you know you can not prevent it from getting everywhere. I like glocks, I even carry one many days...but not in desert.
 
Former Marine who qual'd Expert with one when I had the opportunity about 3 years in, after I got the gunner slot in my Infantry HMG team.


The 9mm round is fine.


The Beretta is too big. Too big for anyone that doesn't have the hands the size of Lurch from the Adams Family. And too big to carry on LBE.
 
I was issued the M9 pistol in the US Army and carried one as a soldier for 10 years.
I was in a Unit where we all carried / were issued M11s or M9s and probably fired them / trained with them more then most troops.
I found that if properly lubricated and using factory magazines (not cheap after market checkmate mags in the inventory) the M9 was a good reliable pistol.
As far as the best option....there are probably better but it was issued so we adapted and the M9s performed carried one as a sidearm on few combat deployments but always had M-4, M-203s, M249s, MK19s, 50 Cals, 240s, AT4s, LAWs, & pump shotguns too!


US Army Combat Veteran
Operation Joint Guardian
Operation Noble Eagle
Operation Enduring Freedom
Operation Iraqi Freedom

Current Law Enforcement Officer
Taser Instructor
NRA Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor
Handgun, Shotgun, Patrol Rifle Instructor
 
A worn out M-9 with army mags is no better in the desert.

This pretty much sums up the issues with the M9 IMO. I'd like to see a representative sample of Glock 17s fed low-bid aftermarket mags that have endured the abuse a 20+ year old GI combat issued M9 has or that a 40+ year old GI combat issued 1911 did. I'd like to see the same for the Sig P226.
 
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When I was first in the Army, the standard sidearm was the 1911A1. They all were old and the magazines seemed too easily damaged.

When the Army announced they would go to the Beretta, I bought one to get more familiar. Eventually, I was issued an M9 and, personally, I thought it was a fine weapon. The environment I used the M9 in was not especially harsh. Additionally, I never really considered it a primary weapon. I was issued my M60 machine gun and the two weapons are on opposite ends of the spectrum.

Others in the Army has problems with the slide mounted decocking lever, Some would engage it while racking the slide and not notice until they need to shoot. Some complained that the 9mm FMJ did not work well in combat.

Overall, I have found that many who were issued pistols in the Army were not especially skilled and handling a handgun. In the case of the 1911A1, some would accidentally activate the safety with their thumb on recoil. Many had a lousy grip and trigger pull and blamed the 1911A1 as being unreliable and inaccurate. Part of this is also due to the training that was common years ago. Everything was done on the cheap and people were hurried through. Many received no real training and faced using the 1911A1 almost completely clueless.

I have seen the same lack of understanding with the M9. Many did not adapt to the first shot being double action and the next ones being single action. Many did not get a good grip and some soldiers had small hands. Many did not know the fundamentals in firing a handgun. Gloves complicated weapon manipulation for some.

I think looking at the military application of handguns can mislead civilians in their choices. Often, the handgun is seen as the alternative of having nothing and overall, the handgun has no major significance in military combat. There may be incidents where the handgun was key, but we remember those occurrences since they are so rare. American police officers more often use handguns as their primary weapon, however their tactics and training does not fully apply to the civilian situation.

Civilians operate is a different environment and usually, the weapons used need to be concealed. Most civilians are not pushed to clean and maintain their weapons as those in uniform are. They do not work in teams and have backup. Civilians are not ever expected to initiate the attack. They cannot call in airstrikes or artillery, nor do they have intelligence assets. Basically, when a civilian is in combat, their first defensive weapon is also their last resort. This is another good reason to strongly consider the tactics of avoidance or escape and evasion.
 
@ScottieG59 your post was profound and it made a lot of sense.

In a lot of posts the need for a larger caliber was expressed. I recently sold a nice Glock 31 chambered in .357 S&W. Recoil from the 357 S&W slowed my rate of fire down to revolver speed. I can take a 9mm and empty it out quickly while remaining on target. Do I have technique problems or is this just the nature of the beast?
 
The M9/92fs/92f is a good solid platform. As I have previously stated, I was never issued the 92/M9. 1911 was the issue of my time. It would seem to me, training with your pistol of carry is most important. Train, shoot, train, shoot...most important by far.

I am an old guy, a fossil. Carried a sloppy military issued 1911 in I Corps. Always felt like, please God, do not let this pistol be my last resort. Give me a rifle with a couple of fully loaded magazines anytime!!

Based upon what I currently own and fire. I would not feel undergunned with a M9, as long as I trained, fired, trained, fired, and was familiar with the pistol that I carried.
 
I've had the M9 as my assigned weapon for the last year and a half and I hate it. IMO, it's easily the worst full size handgun I've ever used. It may have been good for it's time, but it's obsolete now and needs to be replaced. It's too big for the caliber and weighs too much. The DA first shot is annoying and the open top invites dirt and makes it harder to grab the slide. It's not hard to shoot and is adequate for combat, but a Glock, XD or similar pistol would be much better.
 
Let's compare the Beretta M9 as issued, to the Walther P-38 & Luger, the main sidearms of a an army that almost took over the continent of Europe for six years. Is it a superior weapon to THOSE issue sidearm? (yeah, I know the Germans issued, .32's, .380's, and 9mm's from every armory in Europe they seized, but the two mentioned were their own, and primary issue). Isn't our military armed better with handguns than the WWII German military?
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I really appreciate all the desert combat experiences voiced here ! I was trained at ITTS in Handgun II by the then current Metro firearms trainer who years before trained guys when they adopted the 92F . Having 40 years of 1911 under my belt and a American Pistol Institute disdain for "crunchen tickers" it was eye opening.
At the time I was trying to get a Detroit engine service rep position in 'Stan and thought I should should learn the system. I had a made in Italy 92FS I had refined the trigger with a Wolfe kit and put on LPF tritium sights on and some OD Aluma grips.:cool: I had never really warmed up to the P-38 type decocker system, I was WRONG :eek:
I am totally familar with "decock and reholster" today and have mastered enough for gun fighting purposes :evil: the DA first and SA transition trigger control. Two of my sons have been started out in the system by me and professionally trained along side of me :D with the 92FS . My survival rigs have either a vest holding 4 AK mags , 4 M-9 Megars and a Bianchi issue M-9 holster attached OR a Rigger's belt with Blue Orca suspenders with 7 Italian made mags in heavy velcro London Bridge made pouches (one 5 and one two), two double mag FAL German pouches and a Safariland 6004 semi dropped hooded Beretta 92 holster. These are my sons rigs as I prefer a P-14 .45 with with custom kydex M4 support gear for the lighter weight performance.:p
In a long term survival senario or facing high numbers of enemies the 92fs system has a lot going for it IMHO.;)
 
the open top invites dirt and makes it harder to grab the slide.

What method of slide manipulation do you use that involves any contact with the top of the slide?
 
As a former military medic in Vietnam I carried a 1911. It was Army issued but soon after my father sent me his Remington Rand, as it had some fine gun smithing preformed on it. Carrying my medical pack I would have been weighted down with the m-16. I tried a Car-15 which was a smaller version of the 16. Mostly issued to officers!! There was nothing wrong with the Army issued 45 but dad's Remington Rand was really slick. After Vietnam I entered Government work and I came across many different side arms, one being the 92FS, 9mm. The controls were made for big hands. And I have big hands, being 6ft 5inches 250lbs. I had no problems with this firearm, but the smaller men and women that I worked with dis-liked the Beretta because of the position of some of the controls. And almost everyone agreed the 9mm was not the round that they felt would do the job. We were finally issued Sig P220's.. Why 9mm when you can have a 45? I all my years of dealing with different firearms of different calibers, a 45 acp will really up-set your apple cart!! In actual combat I'd bet the farm that most of the combat men and woman would want a 45 caliber firearm, being a CZ, or Sig, Glock, but the Beretta being a great platform but just a little to big and 9mm. You can bet they'd want the bigger caliber 45.. My $0.02 worth.
 
I'm now wondering if any Germans in WWII had a desire for that big American 1911 after they experienced being on the receiving end of it in WWI. There might have even been some smiling Nazi's packing captured Norwegian 1914's in WWII.:D
 
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