ACOG opinions needed...

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Stinkyshoe

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I apologize if this thread seems like digging up subjects past addressed. I am currently trying to decide on which ACOG model to get. From my research and field experience with them, and I am considering the following two models. TA31 or TA11. I am trying to decide between the donut and Chevron, and between tritium or fiber optic tube.

The Ta31 is very compact, particularly on the M4 sized rifle. I got to demo an 'F' model with the chevron when I was taking the Practical rifle course at Frontsight last week. The instructors there seemed to also prefer the Chevron reticles by and large. Shooting with the TA31 reminded me much of shooting with irons in terms of how close one must get the face to the charging handle. The eye relief is very close, which is sort of annoying, but could be learned given some range time.

The Ta11 impressed me a great deal with it's longer eye relief and the way it functioned for me. Again, I can't decide between Chevron or donut. I obviously don't have enough rounds down range with either one to gain a preference. The Ta11 would definately be a great 308 scope due to the longer eye relief.

The final topic is whether a fiber optic or tritium inside would be preferable. When I saw Zak S. 's rifle in person, I noticed he made use of rubber tubing to block out out light in the fiberoptic tube. I assume this is to create a sharper sight picture for day time shooting. So the question is, which optic performs better in dusk conditions. Again, I am lacking in the experience department with one of these.

To make a long story short, ACOGs offers a great advantage for a shooter has hopefully achieved a high level of marksmanship before purchasing optics. While this is not necessarily true in my case, I'd like to decide which one to get. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
TA11, donut, don't look back. Get the LaRue mount.

The longer eye relief and larger exit pupil are a huge win for shooting on the move, acquiring sight picture quickly, and shooting from wierd positions (including weak-side). The vast majority of ACOGs in use by 3Gunners are the TA11 for these reasons.

The TA11 and TA31 series have tritium AND the light pipe-- no need to decide.

The chevron only offers more precision at its tip in the 80-120 yard range. Further than that and you are into using other reticle features to match the point of imact anyway.

The only optic that currently beats the TA11 ACOG in my opinion is hte S&B Short Dot, and it's 2x the price.

-z
 
I dislike both and really dislike the donut reticle. My personal preference is the TA01C. I have never met anyone who did not cover the fiber optic tube, and I can understand why. What I don't understand is why pay the extra money for the fiberoptic tube if your just going to cover it, and on top of that with the fiber optic tube comes what I consider an inferior reticle.
 
The entire light pipe must be covered to really dim the reticle, and with just a nib of it un-covered at the end, the reticle will still glow dull red. With 1" of it uncovered, it will be 95% the brightness of the entire pipe uncovered. I only cover the pipe when I am engaging very small targets from 100-300 yards. Beyond there, you're off the donut anyway and into the BDC.

These guys didn't seem to need to cover the pipes..

D100_5164_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
172_7218_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
D100_3773_img.jpg [ link to LARGER image ]
 
I use a TA-11 with red donut on a .223 and a .308. They work great. I thought about buying a TA-31 for the .308 but went with the TA-11 instead and am glad I did.

I have also shot chevron and amber reticles but haven't liked them as well as the red donut. I found the amber reticle is harder to see against some backgrounds.

I have never felt the need to cover the fiber optic tube.
 
Got issued a TA31, never felt a need to cover the tube. It's very dim at night though, maybe I got some bum tritium? The eye relief is prety close, smudges my Oakleys when I shoot. I've made head shots at 200 meters no problem (paper...no bad guys yet;) ). Good scope, but I'm not looking at different models to buy one.
 
I have two of the TA-11's and love the longer eye relief over the TA-31. Great scopes and they've held up really well.
 
I've got a TA-31F with the Chevron and love it. (don't like the Donut). I don't have the experience with it that Zak does though as I've only put maybe 400-500 rounds down the pipe. I do like the BAC though.

Have a good one,
Dave
 
Thank you all for the feed back. You all make very good points, and the TA11 sounds like a very good choice. I will be able to demo one from a friend next week, so I will post back what I figure out with it.

Bottom Gun,
Do you have a TA11 calibrated for both .223 and .308, or do you just have two of the .223 models. I'd like to have a optic I can move from .223 to .308 with to much worry about POI being off. I'd likely leave it one rifle once I got a setup that worked well.

Is the Ta11 going to be best suited on a rifle length rifle, or would it work just as well on a 14.5 (from a proper calibration point of view)?

Does anyone have experience with a Ta11 on a FAL? I appreciate the comments and suggestions. Sorry if these seem like basic questions...it is cheaper to ask here than find out the 'hard way'. However from the feed back I have gathered, the Ta11 probably the best choice.
Many thanks
Ss
 
Stinkyshoe,

I have two ACOG’s, one on a 16” AR-15 the other on a 20” AR-10.

To the best of my knowledge, the TA-11 is calibrated for a 20” .223 barrel. I’m not sure whether it is calibrated for a 55 or 62 gr bullet, but I have not had to adjust for either one.
I have found the calibration is close enough to work with just about everything I run through them. After all, your trajectory will vary with barrel length, bullet weight, powder charge, etc.
I load much of my own ammo and by doing so I can tailor my loads to the calibrations if I feel the need to do so. So far I have not had to adjust for calibration. Most of my shooting is within 400 yd. If I was going to consistently shoot at greater distances, I would put a regular rifle scope like Leupold or Nikon on the rifle.

I seriously doubt you would be able to switch the same ACOG back and forth between two different rifles and have it hold a common zero. There are too many variations between rifles, even if they are the same make and model.

The ACOG should work well with anything you mount it on. Your barrel length and ammo choice will determine how well your calibrations work.

I am very pleased with my TA-11’s. The optics are top shelf. The images are extremely clear and sharp. I compared image quality to my Leupold, Nikon and Zeiss scopes and found it to be equal or better. That is significant.

I use mine for hunting as well as plinking. They work very well for hunting. I took an elk with the .308 a couple of years ago.

FWIW, I bought both of my ACOG’s on Gunbroker (maybe it was Auction Arms) from a dealer in Tennessee. I was able to get them for under $950. I haven’t priced them lately but, at the time, that was a very good price as MSRP was over $1200.

Hope that helps.
 
Bottom Gun is right-- don't worry too much about matching the ACOG "model" to the caliber, bbl length, or load. Depending on your environmental conditions (e.g. altitude and temp) and particular gun, it's going to be different anyway. Out to 400 yards, they'll all be close enough to hit a LaRue target.

It will work fine on the FAL, but you will find that the stock's cheeck weld is extremely low, and you'll have to build it up a lot to regain a cheek weld like you get on your AR.
 
I was a big believer in the basic NSN model, until we got them replaced with models with the fiber optic tube and chevron. Big improvement, as far as I've seen so far (fairly new addition to the kit).
 
The entire light pipe must be covered to really dim the reticle, and with just a nib of it un-covered at the end, the reticle will still glow dull red. With 1" of it uncovered, it will be 95% the brightness of the entire pipe uncovered.
we use bike tubes to cover the tube, just in case anyone needed to know how!

Nice pics. How do you like the EOTech compared to the TA 31?
well you have to think they are two totally different sights and they are made for two pretty much totally different applications. i have an eo-tech on my personal ar and the reason i picked it is because i think they are the best red dots out there. that is why i have one. on my m4 at work i have an acog and they are great, the only reason i don't have my own acog is because i can't afford it. and that is the only reason.

the acog os great in close precision shooting to sdm type of engagements. i personally prefer the cheveron, and the nsn model. anyway the acog is magnafied which is great, and it needs no batteres which is another great addition.

the eo-tech is a great 1x cqb to mid range sight. they have the 65moa circle for the close engagements like the cqb, and they have the 1 moa dot in the middle for the longer shots. you can definetly effectively engage targets out to and beyond 300 meters with an eo-tech all day long!

they both have there purposes and this is another situation when yo have to decide which will fill the mission profile best.
 
How would your EOTechs do out to 300 yds?

the eo-tech is a great 1x cqb to mid range sight. they have the 65moa circle for the close engagements like the cqb, and they have the 1 moa dot in the middle for the longer shots. you can definetly effectively engage targets out to and beyond 300 meters with an eo-tech all day long!

if the weapon you are firing and the shooter is capable then moa should be possible but since that is not normally accuracy that you see from a m4 type rifle with a 16" barrel, if you had a gun that was accurate like that at that range it would be probally be mounted with a scope. though i have never tested accuracy out that far i can qual on the range all day long and the 300 meter targets are not an issue. using an eo-tech.
 
I haven't shot my ARs to 300 yards yet, so it's tough to say how well I would do w/ EOTechs at that distance :scrutiny: but it might be fun to find out what I can expect at that distance.
 
I'll vote for the TA11 as well for all the reasons listed earlier. As to chevron or donut, I think the chevron is a little more versatile for recreational shooting (I want to shoot tiny groups at 100yds or plink golf balls) but the donut is better suited for most practical shooting.

Don't get me wrong, you can shoot some tiny groups with the donut. Just this past Friday, I took my rifle (16" Lilja SS barrel, stock trigger, TA11) and shot a five-round group with the Hornady 75gr Practice ammo (absolutely top notch ammo) at 100yds from a bench using a Grippod and rifle case for support. The total group was 0.80" center to center with four rounds under 0.50"

I just think the chevron may be a little more versatile because of the tip. Just keep in mind that we are talking very small differences here..even the donut is precise enough to let you make first round hits on 2" targets at 100yds consistently, though it takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it and dimming the reticle helps.
 
I have the TA11 with the donut. It is a good reticle, but problematic for precision shooting at longer ranges, say in the 200-300 yard ranges before you transition to the drop compensator. At 300 yards, the donut (which is supposed to be 4 MOA) covers at least 12" of the target (but it looks closer to 15" to me) and as such, it is harder to make precise shots. You can do things like looking through the tiny 2 MOA hole in the donut to make head shots at 300 yards, but it can be very trying to find and recognize things inside the donut.

The chevron allows for better precision in shooting as it provides a much more precise reference point, the tip.

The question is then one of proposed use. If you want a CQB optic, I think the donut is fine. If you plan on extending your shooting out a bit further with precision, the chevron will be better as it covers less area of the field of view and more importantly, covers less of your target at distance, the target being very small in your field of view at 200 and 300 yards.
 
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