Advice needed - gun crazed boys

[svtruth]

Welcome

to the Highroad.
If they aren't already, have them become members here, they can get excellent "virtual mentors" here.
The cornered cat web site has a wealth of good information.
It is run by pax, a former moderator here and mother herself.
Good luck.

 

[MAKster]

While it's good to encourage intellectual interests, the demand for "gun designers" is about as low as you can get. Sorry to be the wet blanket. Gun manufacturers are relatively small and the number of R&D employees could probably be counted on your hand. Frankly their hasn't been much in the name of real innovation in decades. Almost all new features are created for marketing reasons. I think people have this false notion that working for a gun company is glamorous and you get to shoot guns all day for free.

 

[daskro]

Seconding Mechanical Engineering push, make them get into math classes, AP, IB, mathletics, etc. What I wouldn't suggest is some vocational school/program in gunsmithing only because if they truly have a passion for it, they should aim as high as possible.

I was interested in, amongst other things, firearms when I was in high school but didn't have what it takes to be an engineer, got into business instead. Now I sell missiles for a living.

 

[BacSi67]

Son's interest in guns.

Both my boys have shot in the Junior's Program at my club using 22 cal single shot rifles. They liked it enough to progress to pistols and rifles.
Safety was a primary concern since they first used firearms and they learned primarly from me.
So get involved with them and share their shooting experiences and you'll have more in common with them and maybe pick up a few tips as well.
Shooting coaches have shown them the way to better shooting habits and as you know your interest is piqued when you see improvements.
BacSi

 

[DeathByCactus]

Such encouraging parents, awesome.

I would recommend engineering school, multiple firearm clubs (of different variety, IE Skeet, pistol target, rifle target), the more experience they receive the better they will become with safety and knowledge of firearms. Also maybe recommend other NRA courses, besides the basic ones, eventually working their way to a firearms instructor certificate as they become older. Engineering skills + firearm shooting experience + quality family = productive new firearm manufacturer.

About the only thing I would be careful with is what they say in school to some teachers. You may find that people are...skeptical at times of people who are interested in firearms.

You might also want to try getting involved with them when they shoot, I haven't read the whole thread I am studying for a final, but I always really liked it when my dad came and shot with me. He doesn't do it anymore, but... I guess I am a lot older now. Showing interest in your children's hobby imo is a really great thing.

Also, they might consider learning how to Reload eventually when they get older.

This thread makes me happy. Good luck with your sons!

 

[Mike OTDP]

There are opportunities in small arms design, but they are relatively few. Probably the best career options are with the Federal Government. The services are always looking for competent people for research, development, test & evaluation efforts. Try Aberdeen Proving Grounds and the Naval Surface Warfare Center for more information.

Engineering is a good field. There is a general shortage...and will be, forever.

That being said, at this point, the boys sound like they need good coaching more than anything else. With a bit of practice, they could wind up with one of those spiffy all-expense-paid trips to the Olympic Games.

 

[Mp7]

Germany in KY? Sounds familiar to me

Lady - you sound like you have everything
pretty thought out and already in order.
True to the genes, there!

I find it good advice to encourage your sons
for multiple interests - that would be good.
Of course guns are fine - if there´s other stuff to
keep the brain actve.

Gruesse in den Bluegrass-State,
aus Hamburg,
Mp7

 

[hso]

Welcome to THR.

You're doing a good job as a parent and are to be applauded for wanting to do more. My daughter has a couple of rifles (the pink and purple AR) and is an occasional shooter. She's very safe and methodical about handling her rifles and actually watches me to make sure that I'm equally careful. If I don't follow the sequence I've taught her she'll tell me and I always thank her for reminding me.

As long as you teach the boys to be responsible shooters there's not much more you need to do to be a responsible parent. It would be fun to have your boys "teach" you to shoot .22 rifles so they can "teach" mom the safety rules and proper shooting technique. Nothing reinforces following the proper rules better than wanting to impress someone you respect and hold in high esteem with your ability to teach them something you enjoy. Get them to teach you and you'll be sure that they're clear on the safe way to shoot.

Programs in addition to the 4H would be good to explore. If the school or county or state has a sponsored competitive shooting program it would be good to get them involved in it (we have two young women locally who are Olympic candidates that are still in junior high school). Some universities offer scholarships for qualifying competitive shooters and this alone can be a big motivator for some young folks to become elite shooters as well as beginning careers as engineers. Look at the ODCMP website for affiliated ranges near you. They will have shooting programs that your sons could participate in and many of their members will be very knowledgeable on military firearms. Check the NRA's youth programs site as well for similarly sponsored programs. PM Will Fennel here for more information about programs for shotgunners. Will is an international competitor as well as an international instructor and is deeply involved in youth shooting programs.

It would be nice if we had the programs in the US that exist in Switzerland that make shooting sports a natural part of the community, but as parents we have to look for the programs that exist in our areas.

 

[rbernie]

One of my emplyees had her son take up NRA highpower match shooting, and it's been a really good experience for him.

 

[Ole Gunner]

Advice needed

Relax mom,I have raised three boys all gun nuts and they have reached adulthood. Yours are a little past this stage but the thing I did when they were small (6 yrs old) was to take all the mystery out of guns. We took them apart,cleaned them,reassembled them,shot them,did everything possable you could do with a gun.This kept them from wondering and messing with them when no one was around. Sounds to me like you are doing a pretty good job.I know its hard for someone that hasn'tbeen around guns to deal with them. You asked about their OBSESION with guns, ever been around any football fans?

 

[TEDDY]

learning

I am going to change the aim a little.you might get them into reading on certain history.I have a number of books on the american revolution with the history and the types of guns used,also the civil war and the guns.it will give
them a basic idea of the advancement of arms.I have at least a 100 books on subject.as an a side I am working on a German 1888 rifle and a 1884 rifle.
the mechanical work is interesting.also a Swiss 1881 rifle and a French 1873 pistol.something your boy might be interested in reading about.just put the names in the search bar and it comes up.
good luck and don't worry about what people think.before WW2 schools had gun clubs.and I learned from my father and school.I am 84.

 

[Jefferson Herb]

Gun Interest

I have reached the age where I cry fowl!Life is'nt fair,when you're young and have good eyes,you can't afford to compete[some of us anyway],and when your grown and can afford your eyes are going.
If their interests are there let them compete in military highpower.The matches are very regimented and require disipline,and if they can afford the practice and travel[ sponsered? ],teens can really do well with a tricked out ar.Those of us on the west coast know of a group of Oregon Lads that really made us look bad.
I always wanted to shoot at Camp Perry,maybe it will happen;just to say I was there.[ And your youth can kick my butt ] Ha Ha Good luck,you're doing fine with them.

 

[taliv]

things to do

first, recognize there is a major difference in just being a competent, safe shooter or collector versus wanting to make a living designing guns. if you want your son to excel, you need to prepare him.

1. call one of the two major gunsmithing schools and ask them what the prerequisites are and what factors they've seen make a difference in students who are really good vs average.
also ask about who hires their graduates. ask for names and contact info of folks in industry they know who hire their graduates.

2. next, call those people and ask if they would be willing to mentor your son. ask if they would be willing to spend an hour or two per month on the phone or emailing with your son about his career aspirations and how to prepare for them.

3. after he gets a mentor, find a summer apprenticeship. even if he doesn't get paid a dime, find someone who would be willing to let him hang around their shop and do odd jobs to pick up the trade over the summer.

4. focus heavily on math/science in high school and send him to a good state technical college to get a mechanical engineering degree. (gunsmith is not the same as an engineer, but it is a good place to start until he can get his degree and the practical experience will a) give him a better chance of getting in a good engineering program and b) make his education mean a lot more)


in case it's not obvious, there are two critical success factors: a) competence and technical qualification, b) knowing people in the business. you need both to get a job

 

[SSN Vet]

Channel the energy...

Channel the energy...

Steer the would be gun designer into college to get an engineering degree.

Get him into a physics class, and AP physics if you can...

all kinds of applications to everything from ballistics to optics to lasers...

If they're not the heavy academic types, get them into a machist program (the core building block for every capable gunsmith) or a dedicated gun smith program (though there are few of thes out there), though they may be surprised how math intensive the machineries trade is.

Designing firearms has a LOT to do with understanding how they are manufactured, how they fail, and what is economically feasable and what isnt'.

-----------

carrots and sticks.....

rewards for responsible behavior.

priveleges withheld for irresponsible behavior.

------------

Time for Dad to get into hunting and take the boys out (assuming he doesn't already do this). Even if he's not really into it. Just sending them to hunter's safety class (though a good start) doesn't do the trick. He doesn't want to miss out on a great opportunity to be a part of his sons passion. The day will come when they don't want to hang around with a "boring" dad.

-------------

Encouraging military service is another option..... assuming your not pacifist and are willing to risk losing them. Just make sure they understand the real life implecations...

1. Losing a LOT of freedom (their called orders, not recommendations)

2. Being held to a strict standard of conduct that is much more restrictive than that found in civilian life, with real consequences for screwing up.

3. The very real possibility of having to kill people, and live with it for the rest of your life.

If they are bent on going into the military, they would do well to get into a commisioning program (ROTC scholarship or acadamy appointment). The free degree will go a long ways towards painting a bright future, both during military service and after (even lifers retire and get jobs in the civilian world).

My two cents.

Worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

[mbt2001]

By the way, they earned the money for the guns themselves

**BOW**

In general the US and the World have an identity problem. Everything MALE is evil. That is not true, do not buy the sexist / "tolerant" / "progressive" line.

In specific, young men NEED to hunt. Since they shoot skeet already, arranging bird hunts shouldn't be an issue. Dad should be engaging in these activities with the kids. Quail and pheasant are better eating than chicken and Dove is good, not better than chicken but good. Goose and Duck you will need to ask for some recipies, but we are up to the task

I don't know if you have ever heard of John Browning, but you ought to read about him. I mean, his contribution to the world was pretty large...

And I agree with everything SSN VET's post...

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I mean, 'loving' guns, and everything with it is looked at pretty negatively everywhere

You live in Kentucky, where the NRA held their 2008 convention. Kentucky is one of the most pro-gun states I can think of.
It probably won't be looked at negatively there, except by a few people who believe guns are immoral.

They should probably take a second look at a carer in firearms. I think it is a declining industry

.popular belief is against guns,

Most people, according to the polls I've seen, are against a complete ban on guns. A rural area will probably be the most gun-friendly, in suburbs most people at least won't be against guns. Not sure about urban areas.

 

[expvideo]

My other question is - what would you do if your sons were as interested as ours are? How would you further, support, their interest? We do want them to be safe.

It sounds like you're doing everything right so far. As another poster said, you can trust your sons, but don't trust their friends. Make sure to supervise if they are planning on shooting with another kid.

My suggestion to encourage the future gun designer would be to buy a few more rifles and let them learn the operating principles of those rifles. A very well designed rifle is the AK series of rifles. Between that and the AR design, your son should be able to get a very good understanding of the different operating systems of the two most popular rifles. If you throw in another rifle, the kid will get an even better understanding. It may help to get the creative juices flowing.

Asside from that, on a non-gun note, I would recommend that you enroll him in some classes that are geared toward engineering or machining. Having some hands on experience will help a lot and keep the interest in creating things alive.

I guess there's not much I can say but that you are already doing a good job just by encouraging them and teaching gun safety.

Almost forgot... Take them to a gun show. They'll enjoy it.

 

[Restorer]

To me it sounds like you're asking more of a philosophical question. It seems that you are worrying that a healthy, avid interest in a (currently) controversial activity can morph into an unhealthy obsession with guns. Bear with me here, all, I heard the keyboards firing up at that last phrase, but admit it...obsession with anything can be unhealthy. Life is about balance; the apostle Paul counseled "moderation in all thing" I second the opinions above about balancing your boys' activities with other interests.
When I think gun obsession I think of the guys living in their parents' basement while accumulating SHTF gear out the wazoo and the next thing you know the SWAT team is using a ram on your front door, looking for your little monomaniacal "terrorist". We've all seen pictures on the news about this very thing. You don't want your boys to be that guy and I understand completely. I had several intense interests while growing up, mostly cars, music and guns. The "obsessions" has left me with an appreciation of fine machinery of any sort...guns to me represent a mechanical art form. Deadly, yes, but any well designed and manufactured gun, car or musical instrument (hey, oboes can be deadly!) is a thing of beauty. Your boys see that beauty and appreciate it. The intensity of the interest may wane but that's to be expected. There are lots of things demanding our time and attention.

You're on the right track. Awareness of their activities is key, and being involved in their passion is a great avenue to influence their interests. Music is a great balance...learning it is like learning a language. It requires discipline to learn and that carries over into all phases of life, including firearms training. You'd be amazed at how many musicians are shooters and how many carry concealed.
As far as your youngest son's design aspirations are concerned, encourage them. There haven't been may great gun designers, but the ones that we have had have changed history. Browning, Stoner, Garand, Kalashnikov, etc...it only takes one. Encourage him to study their design histories and the societal pressures that produced those designs. His interest may change; expect that. He may generalize into other weapons development. As we get more comfortable with the tools and technology, I think our interest in making bigger "booms" grows. Humans are tool makers and somebody needs to design good ones.
Good work and good luck,

 

[ultradoc]

maybe go to a gunsmithing school

 

[JohnBT]

"Our youngest wants to design guns, and is learning CAD for that reason."

I have been a career counselor for 30+ years. When our secretary's daughter was a youngster she was quite a serious child and wanted to be a mining engineer. She was nearly obsessed in fact.

She is now completing her post-Ph.D. work, having already FINISHED MEDICAL SCHOOL. And she's the first in the family to finish college.

Things change.

I think you are doing fine.

I was raised around guns and every household had them, but I can understand that maybe the love of guns seems a little odd.

John

 

[Fred Fuller]

Mother,

The USA has always been referred to in certain circles as "a gun culture." Sometimes that's said in a positive tone, often enough these days it's said in a negative way.

I think some introduction to that culture might be helpful, both to you and your husband and your sons. I'd suggest starting out with a book by a Tarheel native- Robert Ruark. The book is The Old Man And The Boy, and you can still find it at many public libraries. It's a classic, but is still in print if you want to buy a copy- just check with your favorite bookstore, or visit Amazon.com ( http://www.amazon.com/Old-Man-Boy-Robert-Ruark/dp/0805002391 ).

Welcome to THR, I hope you find the place helpful. IMHO your sons are very lucky young men to have such involved and suportive parents. Best wishes to you all,

lpl

 

[#shooter]

It sounds to me you are looking for outlets for you kids to participate in what they like.

1. For the child into ME and learning CAD you could have them learn gunsmithing as well. You could buy a used gun for him to practice on. He could also learn woodworking and basic metalworking.

2. If 4-h isn't enough you could join a local range that has competitions. There is plenty more to competition shooting than trap or skeet. You have cowboy action, bullseye, national match, bowling pin, Olympics via USA shooting, and a host of others. So instead of being a soccer mom, you would be a range mom. Pretty cool if you ask me.

3. You can also participate in the NRA. They offer a lot of youth events and gatherings.

4. You can also take your children hunting. This allows them to more directly apply their marksmanship skills. Even if you do not eat the game many food pantries may accept it. Many people donate venison.

 

[MarcusWendt]

Mother, you need to shoot WITH them. It doesn't sound like you are learning how to enjoy blasting stuff.

I agree. You and your husband should shoot with them. You might also look for a Jr Program. for IDPA or USPSA to get them involved in competition type shooting. It's a bit more structured and they would have a lot fo good mentoring.

 

[expvideo]

Being fascinated with guns is no different than being into cars, motorcycles, baseball, starwars or anything else that people get into.

 

[Caimlas]

Best thing you could do is foster their interest, or at least leave them alone in it. If you're concerned that they'll take it to the level of obsession, then I'd suggest maybe offering them up some advice in the form of hypothetical questions: how do they expect to get a job in the field? What kind of field could they integrate said interests into?

In my mind, the obvious choice is to go into the military. It would of course depend on their aptitude and interest. Being good at and enjoying shooting and the mechanics thereof is one thing; so is wanting to work on guns. Wanting to design guns is something else entirely. You might consider looking into engineering schools for them, as going from an engineering school to a defense contractor is likely the only way they'd get to design weapons for a living.

With boys, it is important to foster technical proficiency, if they have it. It's possible that you might be able to get to the root of their interest in guns and direct them towards something they'd be more easily able to get into. You'd know more about this than I would.

I'd suggest you take your boys on field trips, if at all possible: Camp Perry, firearm manufacturing facilities, gunsmithing schools, military boot camps, and the like. Let them talk to the people in the thick of it, and see if that's really something they want to be doing. A lot of times, youth will get the wrong impression about what a given field is like - whether it's from media, school environments, or their parents. I know that happened to me (with regard to IT).

You might want to look into seeing if your boys have Asperger's Syndrome or something similar. It is common in males who "geek out" to things in an unbalanced fashion, to the exclusion of all else. It is considered a learning disability, and it will negatively impact their ability to relate to others throughout life unless they learn how to work around it. It's exemplified by single-minded focus on things they like, to the exclusion of all else, and an inability to effectively relate to others. Basically, if you were a geeky kid growing up, chances are you've got it to some degree or another.