Afghans switch to M-16A2

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gopguy

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Interesting...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article3746677.ece

Afghan troops told to lay down trusty AK47s

For a country with a fighting history such as Afghanistan, where invading forces have so often been humbled, there could be no greater indignity than to be told to hand over your guns and fight with the weapon of the infidel.

Yet the new recruits to the Afghan National Army (ANA) are being asked to swap their beloved Kalashnikov AK47, probably the most famous weapon in the world, for the American M16.

To judge from the bewildered and disapproving faces of the Afghan soldiers yesterday at Camp Tombstone, the training facility in the middle of Helmand province where the Americans and British train the ANA, the decision to scrap the AK47s for the M16 was not going down too well.

The reason for this dramatic change in the fighting culture of the average Afghan soldier is not to boost the coffers of the American manufacturer of the M16 —- although it undoubtedly will.

Rather, it is designed to improve the efficiency of the ANA and teach its soldiers how to preserve ammunition to ensure that, when a battle is fought, the enemy is defeated before the bullets run out.


Traditionally, the Afghan will fire his Kalashnikov from the hip as he advances, spraying the enemy in all directions on automatic mode until every bullet has been expended.

But that is not the way of the British or American soldier who uses his ammunition stocks with greater husbandry and fires to kill, rather than to deluge the enemy with a wall of bullets.

The M16 is fired automatically but in triple bursts, not a constant stream, and never from the hip but with aimed shots from the shoulder. It is against the very nature of warfare as practised by an Afghan soldier, but at Camp Tombstone the first attempts are being made to consign the AK47 to history.

The reaction of the soldiers of the ANA's No 3 Kandak (battalion) of the Afghan 4th Brigade, normally based in the southern province of Uruzgan and now spearheading the switch to the M16, said it all.

“This is made of plastic, it will break,” one cried. They held up the M16 in ridicule.

But the powers that be, including these soldiers' own commanding officer, Lieutenant-Colonel Abdul Hai Neshat, believe that the future is M16, and the AK47, however well loved, is the past. Yesterday at Camp Tombstone was the first time that No 3 Kandak had laid its hands on the US weapon.

A key part of the British Army's job at the base is to instruct their Afghan counterparts how to fire the M16, but officers admit that convincing them to adopt the gun could be tough.

“The Kalashnikov is cleaned just by covering it in diesel. It comes out looking spotless,” Major Robert Armstrong, the Royal Irish Regiment officer responsible for training the Afghan soldiers, said.

“But we tell them that the M16 is lighter and more accurate than the AK47 and I think they'll come round. There's no question, though, that the AK47 is a good rifle. You can bury it in the sand for 100 years, dig it out and it'll fire first time.”

Sergeant Rab McEwan, of the 4th Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland, had the task of introducing the Afghan soldiers to the M16. “I'm happy with the way it has gone so far but for the Afghans, the Kalashnikov is a cultural thing —- they'll take time to get used to the M16,” he said.

Colonel Neshat had one reservation. “I'm concerned whether there will be enough ammunition with the M16. My soldiers are used to firing hundreds of bullets.”

The British military instructors nodded and smiled.
 
There's no question, though, that the AK47 is a good rifle. You can bury it in the sand for 100 years, dig it out and it'll fire first time.

haha
 
“This is made of plastic, it will break,” one cried. They held up the M16 in ridicule.

Sounds like the Afgahnis are pretty smart.

Why not teach them to use those little things called sights on top of the AK? And then teach the officers to instill in their troops the discipline to use semi-auto fire and aim, instead of spraying and praying on full auto?
 
Yeah the 100 years in the sand line was funny...

Why not teach them to use those little things called sights on top of the AK? And then teach the officers to instill in their troops the discipline to use semi-auto fire and aim, instead of spraying and praying on full auto?
__________________
There certainly is enough 7.62X39mm ammo floating around that country to keep the AK in action... the story certainly will not bode well for us finding any less expensive 5.56mm any time soon in the states.:(

One thing is for sure, if they don't stay on top of them they will go back to the spray and pray method with them. The Afghan does not use his sights because he believes if Allah wills him to hit his target he will....believe me it is frustrating...
 
"fight with the weapon of the infidel."

Hmmm, that is true irony, given that the AK was the weapon of the Godless Soviets - who very clearly denied Allah's existence.

But the notion is hogwash no matter how you look at it. The Afghans have used foreign weapons, from Martinis to Enfields to AK's, to you name it for quite a long time.

Ash
 
I don't think it matters much one way or the other which weapon they use. The ostensible reason for the change (according to the article) is a switch from "spray and pray" to aimed fire. I hate to break it to them...you can spray and pray pretty effectively (where "effective" means blowing through your ammo supply and making a lot of noise) with an M16 as well as an AK-47. Sure, you might have to pull the trigger a few times if the gun has "burst" instead of "Auto", but the tool will not matter one bit if the soldier wants to dump his ammo.

What's probably the real issue is simply logistics. If the Afghanis and the NATO forces are working hand-in-hand, it makes sense for them to have one weapon and one caliber of ammo for the standard issue weapon. But that sounds less sexy than "increasing lethality by encouraging wise use of ammo".

Mike
 
Excuse me, Abu Cream Al-Wheat, if you don't like the M16, you can simply use your own vast native arms industry (no, two guys in a mud hut making smgs and AKs does not count as an arms industry) to arm yourself instead of taking our handouts.

Geez, how do you say "don't look a gift camel in the mouth" in Pashtu or Dari?:D
 
Afghanistan has a long history of making it's own weapons. Considering many examples are made by individual craftsmen, their output is amazing.

The M16 is a great rifle, when properly maintained. Unfortunately, many third world armies lack the training and equipment to properly maintain the rifle.

This is purely a political move. There are some many weapons better suited to the task than the M16.
 
....give them Mauser 98k´s, or SKS.

Once they learn shooting... they can go back to the AK.

it´s a good thought - and a miserable execution.
Sounds like Pentagon :)
 
Keep in mind that whatever we give them now, we will be fighting against it in 20 years if not sooner.

So, if they still haven't learned to take care of equipment by that time, maybe that will help us out.
 
considering the contempt they have for us already, I doubt this will work well. I also agree that they should simply learn how to use the sights.

I also don't understand how the ANA gets M16s shoved down their throats while the new Iraqi forces chose AKs without anyone objecting. I'm guessing it is because they lack training and our guys over there saw the opportunity to make them shape up how we want out of political sake.

Whats also funny is how the m16 is considered the future, and the AK the past, even though both were made only ten years apart :p
 
I also don't understand how the ANA gets M16s shoved down their throats while the new Iraqi forces chose AKs without anyone objecting.
Define "rammed down their throat". As a patrolman in a police department, I can ASSURE you that just because I want X does not mean that the brass doesn't want- and get- Y. Might be the same thing here. The higherups in the ANA might very well want -16s, probably due to a price break, or maybe just logistics, and the line soldiers want to keep their AKs. Guess who wins that fight?

Mike
 
....give them Mauser 98k´s, or SKS.

Once they learn shooting... they can go back to the AK.

They did start with the sks, after never cleaning and the firing pin was stuck forward 95% of the time and went into full auto and not being able to stop it, they was instructed to shoot like that. :p
 
Excuse me, Abu Cream Al-Wheat, if you don't like the M16, you can simply use your own vast native arms industry (no, two guys in a mud hut making smgs and AKs does not count as an arms industry) to arm yourself instead of taking our handouts.

Geez, how do you say "don't look a gift camel in the mouth" in Pashtu or Dari?

^truth.
 
We had lots of Afghan guys go black on ammo in 30 seconds or so of every firefight. Weapon choice never mattered. They JUST SPRAY AMMO.
You could tell when the Afghan guys were shooting, and the Marines shooting. It was bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang-bang. "he's still up, and I'm out"
and then you would hear a CRACK! "he's down" and the Marine looks over his M-14 (yes we had them in 2003) and says "you guys can get out from behind the land cruiser now."
 
If they're going to just dump ammo, why not give them BAR1918s with that WWI hip-cup instead? Stronger round :evil:

I think giving them semi-auto-only versions would make them waste less ammo, if that's the true concern.

A BIGGER concern will be to teach them to not clean an M16 only with diesel every once in a while, but to actually clean them. If they REALLY want a firearm in .223 that accepts AR mags.....could'nt they jerry-rig some Galils or something?
 
I think this is a colossal waste of tax payer money. There is nothing so wrong with the AK-47 that it couldn't be fielded even by a first-world army. Instead of letting the Afghans use what they are familiar with and what works, we impose our will upon them. It's great, you know. How about we let them do what they do, instead of imposing our military culture on them? They want AKs, fine. Sharing out shooting techniques is fine, but telling a warrior based culture that they have to do things "our way"... When will the west learn to leave well enough alone? And, more importantly, when will we finally be able to put aside Cold War stigma and accept the AK-47?
 
I guess times have changed.

In the 19th century, the Afghan were excellant snipers. I have a Jezail (cap lock) with a four foot barrel and a peep sight!

Of course, having other countries fight thier wars in your country for the better part 100 years can mess up your culture.

JTR
 
I think a lot of Afgan soldiers will end up "losing" those US taxpayer supplied M16s and replacing them with black market AKs.
 
I don't see what the big deal is. Sheesh. It's an M-16. Use it right, and you'll be fine. Plus, aimed fire is a good idea. If you kept your cheek on the stock instead of yelling "DIRKA DIRKA MAYJAHAYAMUYAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!" with every spray, you might hit something.


And the article says that the maker of the M-16 is American... now... I could be wrong... and correct me if I am... but doesn't FN- Herstal in Belgium hold the contract to make the M-16 for the U.S. military?


/rant.
 
They are made at an FN-USA plant in Columbia, SC. US division of a foreign company, I guess.

Though there is also a separate entity that makes the Canadian military version of the M16... I don't recall the name. I doubt those are the only two that make military rifles on a large scale.
 
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