Ak-47 Help Please

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Get an Arsenal SGL-21. They're professionally converted Saigas with all the bells and whistles. Chrome-lined barrel, threaded for muzzle brake. They do have stamped receivers, but they're RPK-grade Russian-built receivers. They can be had for $650 to $700. They're considered the best on the market right now.
 
Milled receivers offer zero practical advantage over a stamped receiver. They do offer more weight and more price.

Just hold out & find the best deal. I just got one for $250 its russain too.

Yours is a stamped receiver saiga. It doesn't fit the OPs requirements. That said see the above.

On phone and at work so bear wqit me. The last one is a sagia conversion which doesn't even allow for a proper front handguard and I'm almost 100 percent sure is stamped so idnt see how it fits. I would look for a milled norinco since price doesn't seem to matter and these will probably continue to appreciate. Also its cooler to have foregin made ak recivers (at least I think it makes a cooler collection I have a sauga and a maadi so far). Gl wit ur purchase. I would go with a stamped ak for half the price personally.

As to the hanguards. If you are after a fashion accessory and really must have the look of the traditional AK handguards (and I take it that is what you mean by proper) then you can put them on. You replace the gas tube and put a handguard retainer on their and it still costs much less than $800. From a functional stand point I actually prefer the saiga handguard. There are various other handguards than can be run on the saiga depending on ones needs and desires.

Yes Saigas are stamped receivers. They are also foreign receivers since someone reading your post may have misunderstood your comments on that point.

Okay can someone answer these questions:

1. What the hell is the big deal w. a Saiga converted or w.e and what is a Saiga!!

2. Not considering th price, is the Milled Bulgy AK w. chrome lined barrel going to be good?

3. Is the converted red jacket going to be good?

Well since you asked so nicely and apparently haven't heard of google.

A saiga is a russian rifle made at Izmash, where russian military AKs are made. Because of some nonsensical gun regulations they cannot be imported in their traditional format so they are imported in "sporter configuration" They used to run about $250 and now seem to be going for $320. For that price you get a completely newly manufactured rifle with a chrome lined bore on a russian receiver (as a opposed to a gun made of demilled or rejected parts built on a US receiver).

The sporter configuration looks like this:

p_saiga.jpg


Aside from the fact that it doesn't look like an AK it has some functional disadvantages compared to the PG configuration. The funky trigger linkage they use to move the trigger back gives a horrible trigger pull. The balance and ergos are way off with that stock and your grip being moved back. The gun cannot run normal AK mags.

The pistol grip conversion puts the rifle back in its intended configuration and remedies all these problems. One replaces the fire control group and in doing so moves it forward to where it should be and installs a pistol grip. One also installs a pistol a bullet guide and grinds down the mag latch and voila AK mags work. Use google to find more detailed explanations with pics and or video

This is the most economical route to a nice AK IMHO.

The red jacket is a saiga that they have converted and made pretty. Its a nice gun but expensive because you are paying someone to do all the work on it.

As an aside I wouldn't right off a WASR. If everything on it is straight it is probably going to offer as much performance as the much more expensive guns considering how most people use their AKs.

Which is a good segway into mentioning that its hard to answer your next two questions without criteria of what is "good".

How are you going to use the rifle? What do expect it to do? etc.

Generally speaking I would say they are good guns but overpriced. $800 for an AK is silly to me.
 
So Arsenal keeps claiming.
Well, I'll put it this way: I've held one. Their weight, balance, and quality are impeccable. The only AK-style rifle I've ever held that came close to feeling that solid was the Century Golani I just bought (which was a complete new build, with NO surplus parts). Probably the only fault I have with them is that they removed the Saiga's bolt hold open when they did the conversion. That is one feature I wish they'd left, and removing made no real sense. But point is, Arsenal doesn't lie about their quality, and if I was buying a standard AK, I would pay the extra money for the Arsenal even though the WASR's are very good at their price.
 
Their weight, balance, and quality are impeccable.

How is their weight or balance any better than any other saiga that's so outfitted?

As to quality I guess if you get one that doesn't have canted sights or any of the other various problems that some Arsenal rifles have left the door with. Oh and their customer service has a less than stellar reputation if you have the good fortune to get such a rifle.

Oh and lets not forget that Arsenal is a political donor to Harry Reid of all people.

Probably the only fault I have with them is that they removed the Saiga's bolt hold open when they did the conversion. That is one feature I wish they'd left, and removing made no real sense.

It made sense in that they are trying to build clones of guns that do not have them. also some folks have claimed or experienced a problem with the BHO causing issues. If nothing else it is in an awkward location once the pistol grip where it should be. If you profile it then you increase the risk of it getting caught up in the receiver.

Arsenal doesn't do anything special to their guns and from a functional standpoint they don't offer anything extra for their price. If one wants a pretty AK they don't need to buy an arsenal to do get that.
 
WardenWolf said:
Well, I'll put it this way: I've held one. Their weight, balance,<snip> are impeccable.
You can say the same thing about any AK, as they all are made to the same specs.

WardenWolf said:
Well, I'll put it this way: I've held one. Their <snip>quality are impeccable.
Aha, now we're talking.

They're made to the same specs as any other factory AK, so by "quality" do you mean 'looks' or 'cosmetics'? Because that's the only difference, and everybody knows it ain't how it looks, but what's under the hood that counts (and the Arsenal has the same stuff "under the hood" as any other factory AK).
 
Why would the Bulgy milled+chrome lined be worse than a Saiga?

And to ppl who trash milled, i at least know milled are more accurate and hella more durable
 
All I know about Arsenal is that they charge a great deal more than my labor rate and use the same parts that I do...so I decided it was financially responsible to "buy" my build instead. :D

And to ppl who trash milled, i at least know milled are more accurate and hella more durable
Which is why the Russian war machine switched to the AKM, right? They may have iffy standards for acceptable accuracy (not really, more like a practical standard), but they aren't known for accepting inferior gear (at least not with respect to reliability and durability). BTW, the most accurate AK that I have shot was a Saiga (not mine...but it was converted), that includes milled, stamped, Romanian, Bugarian, Chinese, Russian, and Yugo (and probably a few more that I forgot about)...needless to say it was stamped. It still doesn't best the VZ.58, but it isn't too shabby for an AK. I hear that others are having similar experiences (on both accounts).

:)
 
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I'm referring to how solid it feels, the fit of the parts, etc. No rattle, movement, etc. Of course, Arsenals have original Russian internals under the hood, and the receiver, trunions, and barrels come off the same assembly line as the new AK-100 series rifles. Basically, they start with brand new, top-quality parts with the best fit and finish, and then they build a full-featured civilian AK out of it. They use high-end polymer furniture, and the end result is a gun that just feels great in your hands.
 
Okay, (check links to see my choices on 1st page) ive decided on the C-39 milled sporter, the Bulgarian Milled w. Chrome barrel, or the Red Jacket stamped with chrome lined.

C-39 - 800
Bulgy - 1200
Red Jacket - 500


Thing is i want the most durable gun, which is why i want milled reciever and chrome lined barrel.
 
Thing is i want the most durable gun, which is why i want milled reciever and chrome lined barrel.

What's most likely to break or wear out, regardless of what type of AK you get, is the furniture. Not the receiver. And it's a lot harder to find furniture for a milled AK than a stamped one. I also am not aware of any polymer furniture available for them, and the rear stock attachment seems weaker.
 
If PRICE WAS EQUAL for all guns, lets say it is, which ak would you choose? Bulgy, Red Jacket, or C-39? I heard CAI is crap.
 
I heard CAI is crap.
CAI manufactured arms tend to be hit or miss at best, CAI imported guns (like the WASR) can be pretty decent. BTW, Red Jacket has a spotted reputation as well. FWIW, I have no opinion on the three mentioned, because all are too heavy for my taste. I am of the opinion that if I am to carry a rifle that weighs as much as a FAL, and costs as much as a FAL, it might as well be a FAL. dunno.gif
 
And to ppl who trash milled, i at least know milled are more accurate and hella more durable

More accurate? How do you know this? Even if we say arguendo that his was true do you think you are going to see any practical difference in shooting your AK with open sights from field position with the type of ammo that most run through AKs. I would dare say that running cheap steel ammo will be more of a limiting factor that a stamped receiver even if we are assuming a milled gun really is more accurate. Most shooters shooting from field positions with irons will also be for more limiting than which type of receiver.

That said I simply do not accept it as true that milled receivers are more accurate per se.

More durable, perhaps in theory but when have you heard of a stamped receiver failing or having any kind of durability issue? Further more for the price of the milled guns buy a whole extra gun. Even if it is more durable its not a benefit worth the extra weight since there is no durability problem with a stamped gun.


BTW, Red Jacket has a spotted reputation as well.

Details please. I have never heard anything but good about them. "Spotted" is pretty vague, so vague as to be nearly meaningless.

Of those listed I would most likely get the red Jacket. I would never pay $1,200 for a freaking AK. If I was going to spend $800+ I would likely get different platform. I surely wouldn't buy a parts gun for $800+ that is just nuts IMO. Now that said, I would not buy that red jacket gun because I could have the very same thing much cheaper by doing a very small amount of work myself. The redjacket gun is overpriced for what it is IMHO.

If you seriously don't care a bit about the money buy whichever you like. They will all go bang. Without knowing how you plan to use it it is hard to say but there is a chance you will never notice much difference one to the next.
 
And to ppl who trash milled, i at least know milled are more accurate and hella more durable
The difference is the barrel, not the receiver, IMO. Generally speaking, all milled AK's are very-high-end guns, so they tend to get very-high-end barrels. Stamped AK's with the same grade barrels tend to shoot well also.

I'm not bashing milled AK's---they're fine rifles---but stamped aren't bad, either.
 
Details please. I have never heard anything but good about them. "Spotted" is pretty vague, so vague as to be nearly meaningless.
In hindsight I believe it was Lancaster, not RJ, that had the problems (poor function and the barrels were wrong bore diameter IIRC).

The difference is the barrel, not the receiver, IMO.
That is generally the case (and not limited to the AK platform).

:)
 
Maverick223 said:
In hindsight I believe it was Lancaster, not RJ, that had the problems (poor function and the barrels were wrong bore diameter IIRC)
It's probably time for a nap.

You're describing Century's issues with the Tantal.
 
AKElroy said:
Arsenal's are NOT $1200.00.
That's an Arsenal Saiga, not one of their Bulgarian gold-bricks-in-the-shape-of-an-AK. They're buying those Saigas by the container load for less than $150 each, most likely.

Here's the real Arsenals:
Arsenal RPK-74 $2750
Arsenal SLR-106UR SBR Pricele$$ (either out of stock or higher than a cat's back)
Arsenal SLR-106UR rifle $1198 (that's awful close to $1200, ain't it?)
Arsenal SLR-107CR $965
Arsenal SLR-106CR $1150 (again, real close to $1200)
Arsenal SA M7 $2500
Arsenal SA M7R $1569
Arsenal SA M7RB$1550
Arsenal SA M7R ARM9 $1550

Now I believe I read someone's post that said Arsenal's weren't $1200.

They were right! On average, they're MORE!
 
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Why do you want a milled receiver?

Because someone told him they were "more accurate". Which in 'AK speak' means that is shoots Brown Bear HP into 2" - 4" groups when scoped and fully benched and sprays when it gets hot. Just like every other AK on the planet. ;)
 
the lattest NRA magazine [the American Rifleman] has a writeup on the century arms centurion 39.
 
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