AK Optic Mounts

[bratch]

What are the pros and cons of the Ultimak versus the side mount on AKs. I would like to mount a a red dot on my Vepr.

 

[AK103K]

I have an Ultimk on a couple of my AK's and like them very much. I think the biggest advantage to them is, they allow you to mount the optic fairly low and up front out of the way, of both your field of view and handling. With the red dots, depending on what your using, you may be able to also co-witness the iron sights to the dot. I can do this with my Tasco and BSA dots on my SAR, and I probably could with my Aimpoint on my AK103K if I use a different ring or mount. Most of the lever mounts for the Aimpoint are set up for the AR's and even without the riser are just a little high. I can see the iron sights if I use the 400m setting, but it really doesnt matter as the Aimpoint is on a Larue lever mount and pops right off. You can also use a Scout type scope if you dont like dot sights. I've shot the Kobra's and some side mounted scopes and didnt like them at all. For one, most all of them are big and bulky and sit to high, at least for me, and are not comfortable or natural to shoot with. They are also tend to be in your face and block your field of view. With the lower mounted forward sight. you can shoulder and shoot very naturally, basically just like your iron sights and do so very quickly. Fast snap shots are a breeze and you can get good hits on targets at 100m or better shooting like this. Up close for fast shooting its even better. Another advantage is, you dont have to remove the scope or mount to get to the top cover for cleaning. If you use good quality mounts or rings that hold zero, you can easily pop the sight on and off or switch them at will. I've heard some of the side mounts hold zero well and others not at all. I've also heard a few complaints of the rails not being right or some mounts not being totally compatible and either the scope wont go on at all or cant be zeroed.
Here's my AK103K with the Aimpoint on it:

This is a target of 2 second snap shots from a low ready at 100m(LT) and 50m(RT):

These are 100m offhand slow fire:

These were shot with both my SAR and AK103K. I'm pretty sure the snap shot targets were shot with the SAR, but its been awhile and I'm getting old and CRS is setting in. AK's are capable of much better accuracy than a lot of people will give them credit, especially if you use a dot sight or some sort of optic. The iron sights work well enough to, but as you get older, they do get a little harder.

 

[wally]

I'll give the opposite advise and say go with the rail side mount. They are cheaper, hold zero well (not that AKs are accurate enough to make this easy to notice) and sitting high makes it easy to get a "chin weld" to the stock. I find using irons or something as low as the Ultimak causes the stock to interfere with my hearing protectors.

Forget the reciever cover mounts, They have visible wobble when mounted.

--wally.

 

[Gun Wielding Maniac]

I also advise sticking with the side rail. The optics available do not always force you to settle for a chin weld either. There are plenty of low mounted scopes and red dots available, such as the PK-01V or the PK-A which allow normal cheek welds. Additionally, if the optics go down, you can crank the scopes off with the quick detach feature. In my experience, I have not noticed any change of POI after removing the optics from the side rail. You also dont necessarily have to remove the optics in order to clean the gun. You can pop off the top cover still, with optics mounted in place. You simply have to be careful not to get solvent or anything into the open lenses. Besides, in order to really clean an AK, you'd have to take the gas tube off too.

 

[AKM]

Russian optics are no match for an Aimpoint mounted atop an Ultimak (I have collected and used lots of Russian optics and mounts over the years).

If you mount the Aimpoint low enough (like the pic) it will also co-witness with the AK's irons.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I have one of these on my Arsenal SA M-7S:

It's a Russian Kobra EKP-8-02 on a side rail mount. It is rugged, authentic, quick to mount and dismount, and always return to zero. It has four different reticles selectable at the touch of a button, and about a dozen intensity (brightness) settings. The price is right, too -- about $190 delivered, including the mount, from Tantal at http://www.tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru.

Here's what it looks like mounted to an AK:

The pics are from Tantal's excellent site.

 

[dc2wheel]

Here's that sight mounted to my Romanian SAR-1. Tantal is GREAT to deal with.

 

[beerslurpy]

I have this badboy. Russian Optics are now hovering around 200 bucks and they are VERY good. The only sight I think compares to this is the ACOG reflex. It works with and without batteries (the red dot turns black when off or when in bright surroundings).

Arsenal with PKAS

Same PKAS, mounted on Saiga, with illumination turned on:

 

[clange]

That PKAS is cool. I might have to get one of those, i've been looking at them for awhile.

Until then..


PK-AV up top and a Kobra (03M) below.

I prefer such optics on an AK, but i have no doubt an aimpoint or something on an ultimak would be as good or better. The ultimak just doesnt do it for me.

 

[Eightball]

I'd also have to say that the siderail mount is the best. Why? Because that's where the AK design is originally supposed to have mounts. That, and you can go with a wide variety of scopes/red dots/whatever if you get the right mounts to do so. Say you have a red dot mounted on the gas tube, and you decide you want a low-power scope instead--probably more hassle than it is worth, IMO (but probably cheaper). Now, if you have the side-rail, and you decide you want top-of-the-line optics, you could get basically anything from Tantal (which, I have to echo, is awesome to work with--great customer service, etc, and my order's already in the mail), and you'd get satisfactory results. I'd say it depends on what you want--cost-effectiveness="scout" style, or quality=side rail. To each their own.

 

[AK103K]

Say you have a red dot mounted on the gas tube, and you decide you want a low-power scope instead--probably more hassle than it is worth, IMO (but probably cheaper).

If you use the right rings or mount, its no hassle at all. Just pop one off and the other on. As for price, the Russian stuff is usually cheaper. You can buy a cheap AK for what an Ultimak, Aimpoint and its mount costs. Pretty much the same for a Burris or Leupold Scout scope and ARMS lever rings. You can go with the cheaper stuff and make out fine, some work well and others are crap. I guess it all depends on what you want and expect out of them and the gun. And as always, you tend to get what you pay for. I really dont see the point in putting a high power scope meant for a different type rifle on an AK. It may look cool, and it may work fairly well, but I think you'll find it limits you if you want it for anything other than shooting off a bench at the range. I'd be willing to bet that those who praise the Kobra and Russian scopes have not shot a good dot sight or scout scope on a forward mount to compare them and know the difference, especially when the shooting involves fast shooting on multiple targets at various ranges. The fact that you see the Ultimak and the better dot sights on AK's in the hands of professionals in Iraq and Afghanistan pretty much tells you what works the best, especially since they have to go out of their way to get them. I'm sure if the Russian stuff was better suited for it, they would be using it. But, as was said, to each his own.

 

[GunGoBoom]

If you're going red dot (1x optic), then go with the ultimak, because of the unlimited eye relief and less weight. If you're mounting a magnifying optic of any kind, then that limits eye relief, and a side mount is probably superior.

 

[Father Knows Best]

I'd be willing to bet that those who praise the Kobra and Russian scopes have not shot a good dot sight or scout scope on a forward mount to compare them and know the difference, especially when the shooting involves fast shooting on multiple targets at various ranges.

I've praised the Russian Kobra holographic red dot on a rail mount. I also have a fair amount of experience with much more expensive red dot systems, including the Eotech HWS, and I have experience with forward mounted, long eye relief ("scout" type) scopes. And yes, I am an avide action shooter. I still praise the Kobra.

I'm not going to tell you that the Kobra on a rail mount is "better" overall than an Eotech HWS on an Ultimak. I will tell you that the Kobra is very, very good, and is a great value. The Kobra with mount sells for $190 delivered to your door. The Eotech costs over $300, and the Ultimak sells for another $100. You're going to spend at least $200-250 more that way.

It may be "better" for certain kinds of shooting. If you think it is, and the extra money is worth it to you, then more power to you. A Porsche 911 is "better" than my little Pontiac, but I'll take the Pontiac and use the money I saved on things that are more important to me.