Al Gore's Speech--surprisingly good

[Manedwolf]

I don't understand how you get to this conclusion over and over again? Many of us don't trust the Bush adminstration, we don't believe in its policies, and we strongly feel that its centralization of power in the Executive branch is dangerous and borderline unconstitutional. I can understand you disagreeing with this. What boggles my mind is the leap of logic from disagreeing with us on these issues to your assumption that we support the Democrats and want to repeal the Second Amendment.

Many of us believe Bush is leading the country down the path to tyranny. We feel that is as grave a danger as this country has ever faced. We are not going to abandon our beliefs in liberty and the Constitution to play petty party politics, which is the direction such comments as the one above are trying to take this debate.

+1

And I'm personally getting tired of the kneejerk reaction whenever anyone admits that something that someone on "the other side" said might have been correct. It's very close to the people who say "If you dissent, you must HATE AMERICA."

The founding fathers certainly didn't agree on everything. And not all Democrats are gun-grabbing leftists. Some are (gasp) a lot more understanding of the need for them than some wannabe-fascist neocons who would stop all possibility of opposition to the powers in charge, if they could. The only reason that sort does NOT include guns in the "well, terrahists could get'em" list is that because it'd be political suicide...at this point. But let them be in power for a few more years, and see what happens. There's already starting to be nibbles in that direction. Remember how Mayor Bloomberg (R) of New York City managed to blame the NRA for recent police shootings and complained that the only reason to carry a gun in New York City is to "kill somebody"? Do you really think that's going to stop, in this political climate of enforced fear? Every election cycle, there are less (R) conservatives and more (R) neocons in power.

Listen to the person, listen to the message. The little (R) or (D) after a name doesn't tell you everything about a person..in fact, it tells you very little. And if you close your mind and respond in a knee-jerk fashion if the letter doesn't match the one you prefer, well...it's not helping things at all.

Personally, I could care less about parties in general. What _I_ care about is that the American flag used to be a symbol of hope. When Tiannamen Square happened, one of the people running past from the carnage shouted "Tell the Americans what is happening here!" ...because at that point, we were still a symbol of freedom, the calvary that could arrive to set things right.

Now we are feared, shunned, the American flag is burnt in more nations than ever, "Death to America" is shouted in more languages than ever, in all hemispheres. We're making enemies faster than we can kill them, and "down with America" is enough of a slogan to get the people behind tinpot dictators and South American socialists. We had the goodwill of the world after 9/11. Nations approved of going into Afghanistan after bin Laden. Even most hardline Islamic nations did...after all, vengeance is part of the culture, and we were justified. But we didn't take that chance to take out bin Laden and stop there. Now...we're regarded as imperialists. Terrorist recruitment has skyrocketed.

At home, we're willingly surrendering civil liberties to be "safe"...to feel more secure. And Gore WAS right. If we think, today, that we are somehow more in danger than when the founding fathers knew that to be caught was to be hung for sedition, or when we were fighting in world wars against enemies that wanted to invade and utterly destroy us, or facing down a nation that could push a button and destroy us and the world in the blink of an eye... then we're not only wrong, but we've lost something. Were people stronger, then? Why are we so scared, now, that we're willing to go against everything in the Federalist Papers, everything Franklin, Jefferson et al warned about, for some sort of thumbsucking false sense of security?

We ARE on the wrong course...and arguing whether the left or right side of the train heading towards the cliff is better doesn't help much, the brake handle needs to be pulled by everyone involved.

 

[Biker]

CSPAN is right next to the channel where I watch the UFC fights. Well last night I accidently hit CSPAN and there to my amazment was the Nam vet that was there as a "reporter" for a few months. He sounded more like a preacher than a politician!!! I hate the S.O.B....but.....lest we forget "He invented the internet" ...and without that we would not be able to communicate like we are now.....

God Bless America

Gore never said that "he invented the internet". Do some checking...
Biker

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Thus, why would you say you don't "trust the Bush adminstration" and make a seeming leap to say they'll attack the 2nd Amendment? Have they?

I don't recall ever saying the Bush administration would attack the Second Amendment. Bush's statement that he would sign the AWB renewal if it came across his desk could be construed as a passive 2A attack, but I personally wrote that off as politics as usual.

My criticism of the wiretaps is not that they were unconstitutional--I grudgingly accept that they would probably be interpretted as constitutional in the Supreme Court--my complaint is that Bush wiretapped in blatant violation of the FISA law. If he had said, "Oops. Screwed up. Sorry," I would have doubted his sincerity, but would have accepted that as the end of the story, again, grudgingly. But he didn't. He told us, the FISA courts, and the Constitution to go spoon a goose. He claimed to be above all laws. To me this was the equivalent of Caesar crossing the Rubicon, a declaration of dictatorial powers.

As for "wartime powers," I'm still waiting for congress to formally declare war, a prerequisite for the executive branch's assumption of wartime powers. When it comes to something as important as our liberty, I'm afraid I'm a stickler for such details.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

And I'm personally getting tired of the kneejerk reaction whenever anyone admits that something that someone on "the other side" said might have been correct. It's very close to the people who say "If you dissent, you must HATE AMERICA."

Ever read Orwell's "1984"? Remember "Newspeak"? Think about this example:

"Those people who complain about my usurping America's freedom in the war against all those who hate us because of our freedom must really hate our freedom." If that wasn't an accurate paraphrase of Bush's position, it would almost be funny.

 

[Camp David]

Gore never said that "he invented the internet". Do some checking...
Biker

Biker...sort of a thread departure but since you raise the issue please let me respond...

In a discussion with CNN's Wolf Blitzer on March 9, 1999, Al Gore said:

"I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet...."

Sure sounds like it... In any event, it was a poor sentence syntax as Gore had absolutely nothing to do with DARPA's ARaPNet project which gave fruit to the internet/world wide web we know today; indeed when Gore was a Senator he frequently voted against DoD funding, under which DARPA's budget was funded. DARPA is Defense Advanced Research Products Agency, the creator of the project that yielded hyper text transfer protocol.

 

[rick_reno]

THE QUESTION - How do you know his actions were an effort to protect the county? Do you have some inside information that supports this? or are you simply parroting what he has been telling us?

Why would you ask that question?

Simple, you mentioned his reasoning. I'm needing clarification of how you know what his reasons are. Nothing sinister, just wanting to know if you've found some gem of information the rest of haven't seen that would add credibility to what he's been saying.

 

[Nitrogen]

I am not a fan of Al Gore, even tho, if you look below, I'm one of those dirty lilly-livered liberals. However, even a broken clock is right twice a day, and at least with this speech, Al Gore is right on.

Every once in a while, a complete moron can accidentally say something poingient (Oh g_d I hope I spelled that right)

Every once in a while, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Moore, Bill O'Reilly and Al Franken say something I agree with.
Al Gore is dead wrong with his stances on gun control, Affirmitive Action, and defense, to name a few.
Somehow, though, he managed to write and deliver a speech that had a lot of punch behind it, voicing an opinion that a lot of people seem to agree with. I really hope that people don't disraguard something they might agree with, because an idiot happened to say it.


Oh, and the whole al gore quote:
During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

He's a clumsy speaker, about as bad as Kerry, but looking at the whole quote, to me, at least, he's taking credit for building legislation to enable the internet. Which is also Male Bovine Excrement, as the Internet was in development while he was serving in Vietnam.

 

[12-34hom]

Al Gore did not even carry his own state in the presidential elections.

That should tell anyone wondering about Al gore and his motivations.

12-34hom.

 

[RealGun]

The report's out on it. From that huge dragnet, from all those Americans listened to, we got...bzzt! NOTHING. No cells, no al-qaeda.

If the president wanted to make a sincere effort to protect the country, then Osama bin Laden's head would have been on a pole at least FOUR YEARS AGO, the ports would be secure, and some of the insane pork would be vetoed out of bills to divert money to ACTUALLY securing things!

Tough customer

 

[RealGun]

Simple, you mentioned his reasoning. I'm needing clarification of how you know what his reasons are. Nothing sinister, just wanting to know if you've found some gem of information the rest of haven't seen that would add credibility to what he's been saying.

How do I know what you're saying is true. If I allow you credibility and have no indication to doubt you, why would I raise the question? I can be skeptical, but I am not hostile.

 

[roo_ster]

I can't take anything Al Gore says seriously, any more than I would take anything Lyndon LaRouche said seriously.

Al Gore is a fanatic with a slippery grasp on reality. Read Earth in the Balance and tell me with a straight face that he is a reasonable man.

 

[carlrodd]

+1

And I'm personally getting tired of the kneejerk reaction whenever anyone admits that something that someone on "the other side" said might have been correct. It's very close to the people who say "If you dissent, you must HATE AMERICA."

The founding fathers certainly didn't agree on everything. And not all Democrats are gun-grabbing leftists. Some are (gasp) a lot more understanding of the need for them than some wannabe-fascist neocons who would stop all possibility of opposition to the powers in charge, if they could. The only reason that sort does NOT include guns in the "well, terrahists could get'em" list is that because it'd be political suicide...at this point. But let them be in power for a few more years, and see what happens. There's already starting to be nibbles in that direction. Remember how Mayor Bloomberg (R) of New York City managed to blame the NRA for recent police shootings and complained that the only reason to carry a gun in New York City is to "kill somebody"? Do you really think that's going to stop, in this political climate of enforced fear? Every election cycle, there are less (R) conservatives and more (R) neocons in power.

Listen to the person, listen to the message. The little (R) or (D) after a name doesn't tell you everything about a person..in fact, it tells you very little. And if you close your mind and respond in a knee-jerk fashion if the letter doesn't match the one you prefer, well...it's not helping things at all.

Personally, I could care less about parties in general. What _I_ care about is that the American flag used to be a symbol of hope. When Tiannamen Square happened, one of the people running past from the carnage shouted "Tell the Americans what is happening here!" ...because at that point, we were still a symbol of freedom, the calvary that could arrive to set things right.

Now we are feared, shunned, the American flag is burnt in more nations than ever, "Death to America" is shouted in more languages than ever, in all hemispheres. We're making enemies faster than we can kill them, and "down with America" is enough of a slogan to get the people behind tinpot dictators and South American socialists. We had the goodwill of the world after 9/11. Nations approved of going into Afghanistan after bin Laden. Even most hardline Islamic nations did...after all, vengeance is part of the culture, and we were justified. But we didn't take that chance to take out bin Laden and stop there. Now...we're regarded as imperialists. Terrorist recruitment has skyrocketed.

At home, we're willingly surrendering civil liberties to be "safe"...to feel more secure. And Gore WAS right. If we think, today, that we are somehow more in danger than when the founding fathers knew that to be caught was to be hung for sedition, or when we were fighting in world wars against enemies that wanted to invade and utterly destroy us, or facing down a nation that could push a button and destroy us and the world in the blink of an eye... then we're not only wrong, but we've lost something. Were people stronger, then? Why are we so scared, now, that we're willing to go against everything in the Federalist Papers, everything Franklin, Jefferson et al warned about, for some sort of thumbsucking false sense of security?

We ARE on the wrong course...and arguing whether the left or right side of the train heading towards the cliff is better doesn't help much, the brake handle needs to be pulled by everyone involved.

great post! we are on a dangerous road in this country....self destructive intrusions abroad, and self-destructive, liberty smashing, fear mongering politics at home. and no one party is to blame. how does the saying go?....'a house divided against itself cannot stand.'.......applicable in so many ways. i don't see what the solution is, but keep your eyes open, because things are seriously coming to a head.....it's in the air.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

great post! we are on a dangerous road in this country....self destructive intrusions abroad, and self-destructive, liberty smashing, fear mongering politics at home. and no one party is to blame. how does the saying go?....'a house divided against itself cannot stand.'.......applicable in so many ways. i don't see what the solution is, but keep your eyes open, because things are seriously coming to a head.....it's in the air.

I don't know what to do either, other than try to wake as many people to the danger as possible. My gut feeling is to start stock piling lots and lots of ammo.

 

[Biker]

Nobody cares, LB. As long as we have our 'big screens', pizza, beer and sports, bread and circuses as it were, no one will care until it's too late.
I hate to sound like a defeatist, but America has a terminal illness and we, as a collective patient, are still in denial.
I hope to God I'm wrong...
Biker

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I hope you're wrong too, Biker, but I see little to indicate that you are.

Except maybe the number of people I encounter on lists like this who have their eyes wide open and aren't looking through a tunnel of dogmatic, ideological blinders. This forum is perhaps the very best source of information I've ever discovered. I'm not just talking about people posting their opinions thoughts; I'm talking about the vast number of links to credible sources of information that people use to cite and back up those opinions and thoughts. There are a lot of high-quality brain pans connected to this forum.

 

[longeyes]

I'm no Gore fan, but...

Give the Devil his due. Some of this had to be said. And it was said well.

 

[longeyes]

Nobody cares, LB. As long as we have our 'big screens', pizza, beer and sports, bread and circuses as it were, no one will care until it's too late.
I hate to sound like a defeatist, but America has a terminal illness and we, as a collective patient, are still in denial.

Grave, not necessarily terminal.

The patient is sick but has yet to fully manifest the symptoms of Debtoritis. Not long to wait, however.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

how could you say that and NOT support the 2A?

It's simple -- he's projecting. He's not outraged over what Bush is doing, he's jealous that it isn't him doing it -- and if he were in charge, it would be worse.

 

[ArmedBear]

It's simple -- he's projecting. He's not outraged over what Bush is doing, he's jealous that it isn't him doing it -- and if he were in charge, it would be worse.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner. (And in Al Gore, we have a wiener.)

And I don't especially like Bush.

One word about Gore: Echelon.

 

[GARMASTERS]

Al (I invented the internet) Gore?

Anybody who listens to ANYTHING Gore says needs to get a life.

 

[Biker]

Anybody who listens to ANYTHING Gore says needs to get a life.

I gather that you didn't agree with the content of his speech?
Biker

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Al Gore has a great speech writer, but remember "I am not a crook."?

I agree with most that he read, but while good speechwriters may be
expensive, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

Al Gore saying "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet" is more like `I pushed for the internet'
than the doubly false statement `I invented the internet' which Gore did
not say and which is not true. Congressmen take the initiative in creating
aircraft carriers without actually inventing them or saying they invented
them. This bulsht (a word I picked up from the printed lyrics of a Jefferson
Airplane song) distracts from real issues: WHICH BOTH Democrats AND
REPUBLICANS and all the talking heads on TV and "journalists" are doing
to the deteriment of America.

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a
man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. It
does not even protect a man from an injunction against uttering
words that may have all the effect of force.

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr, in
Schenck v United States (1919)

 

[THEREALIRONHORSE]

Al Gore and TRUTH in the same writing?bwhahahaha.This man joins Ted Kennedy,Charles Schumer,and Howard Dean in the qwest for DUH!<oh yea ,he did invent the internet though...bwhahahahahaha>

 

[Biker]

Al Gore and TRUTH in the same writing?bwhahahaha.This man joins Ted Kennedy,Charles Schumer,and Howard Dean in the qwest for DUH!<oh yea ,he did invent the internet though...bwhahahahahaha>

That's tellin' 'em.
Biker

 

[taliv]

iron horse, please let us know which parts of gore's speech you don't agree with


btw, i get the impression that not only have you not read his speech, but you haven't read any of the previous posts before replying. otherwise, i'm hard-pressed to understand why you would embarrass yourself by bringing up the "invent the internet" misquote a 3rd time.