Alcohol and CCW?

[jahwarrior]

in PA, there are no laws barring one from being armed while drinking. in fact, it's not even illegal to be visibly intoxicated while armed. if you get stopped for public intoxication, having a firearm doesn't excacerbate the charges in the least. you'll be cited for being a drunk, that's all.

 

[wrs840]

Originally Posted by Les
I've never been frisked when entering, patronizing, or upon leaving a restaurant.

Les,
I see your point, and I feel for your sentiments on the subject, but your location is listed as NC and NC law says...

Thank you, my bad.

I do not advocate breaking the Law.

les

 

[Gungnir]

I don't agree with going to a "bar" with a CCW but just a drink or two with dinner while you possess a weapon I think is fine. As long as you are responsible and use your head.

What's the difference in going into a bar for a quick bite to eat and drink or two, and going to a restaurant for a meal and having a drink or two?

I think the important thing here is "As long as you are responsible and use your head" regardless of any activity that you're currently performing. In your example I think the only difference is the implication is that a bar is for drinking and a restaurant is for eating, however that's not necessarily the case, and it's down to personal restraint in both cases. I've gotten hammered at Hooters, and stayed sober at many a bar.

We have laws that if broken can be enforced. Why create and enforce laws that proactively criminalize people before there is an actual victim. If Joe-Bob hits the bar with his CCW and blows someone away he's guilty of murder, however if Joe-Bob hits the bar and gets falling down drunk gets a taxi home and passes out in bed, he's guilty of nothing, whether he is or is not armed.

At the end of the day proactive prohibitionist laws only effect the law abiding anyway. We as 2A supporters should know and understand this (1994 AWB was proactively prohibitionist, what impact did this have on public safety?), so I'm always confused when these discussions come up, why so many of us support laws that are proactively prohibitionist.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
Never saw it either when the drunk got into his car to go out and play with others lives.

See? Here it goes. Carrying a gun in a holster for defensive use in the extreme moment of need -- while out for dinner and drinks -- is the same thing as operating a motor vehicle while drunk. You're "playing with people's lives!"

Or that's the implication made, if not actually said right out in the open.



-Sam

No implication, I ment exactly what I said. Nothing like a crosseyed drunk missing what he's shooting at. Same as a crosseyed drunk going headon into a car because he picked the wrong one to miss.

 

[Sam1911]

Nothing like a crosseyed drunk missing what he's shooting at.

And that's what we all become when we go out for dinner and a drink or two. Crosseyed drunks.

"Well, not you, Sam, but those other guys...you can't trust them!"

Oh really?

In the commonwealth of PA there is no legal BAC limit for carrying a gun. There is NO prohibition against carrying in ANY bar, restaurant, or other liquor-serving establishment.

Where is the blood in the streets? Where are the huge numbers of arrests? Where is the public outcry? For heaven's sake there are over 650,000 licensed gun-carrying folks in this state alone! Think how many of them must surely end up in a bar or restaurant with a drink in their hand on any given day of the week and twice on Sunday? Egad. It's a wonder any of us are left alive.

-Sam

 

[Sam1911]

Having typed this once before...

many just go past a pub, have a beer and get going. I'm not worried about those people. But how to seperate them from those who have more than a beer, who are severely depressed, perhaps narcissistic or feeling paranoid, and don't handle alcohol well?

How do you separate the regular folks from those people who have more than a beer and want to crack someone's skull with a bar-stool or pool cue? Or go out to their car and get the gun they (legally) left outside and come back in and shoot up the place? Or commit any number of other violent acts? The answer is that you can't. If it's already illegal to assault someone or commit murder, how will adding a lesser charge of posessing a weapon in a prohibited location really be a signficant deterrant? That just doesn't make sense.

Say "Violent Joe" has had too many beers and he's mad at the world. He's been in a pushing match and exchanged insults with folks in the bar and he heads out to his car to get his gun and show them all who's boss. Now he's got murder in his eyes -- no body can push him around ANY MORE -- they're gonna DIE! But wait! What's that? The law says I can't bring the gun into the bar! Oh, shucks. Never mind. I was going to kill some folks, but bringing the gun into the bar would be illegal so I guess I cant.

Silly, isn't it?

The truth is that we just DON'T have a problem with this. As I've pointed out here before, in my state it is perfectly legal for me to enter any bar with a loaded gun on my hip, sit down and drink a beer or two. It is legal for any of the 650,000+ other PA citizens who hold a License To Carry Firearms to do the same. So, where are the corpses? Where are the hundreds of arrests of "piss drunk" folks who surely must be being incarcerated for violent altercations because they were armed and intoxicated? They just aren't there. They just don't happen.

Or, rather, they happen a lot LESS frequently among the legally armed citizens than they do among the illegally armed (repeat criminals, etc.) and the rest of the "general population."

So, really, what we see is that a LOT of folks go out to enjoy a drink. Some of those folks go armed. A very few of those folks (armed or not, no real way to know) get noticeably intoxicated while out for the evening. A very, VERY few of those folks (almost none of the legally armed ones) act violently. And those that act violently will do so with whatever weapon they have at hand -- and, if they are inclined to carry a gun, will do so whether the law allows it or not. After all, they're already violating FAR more serious mores than that!

Now, from my point of view, I do accept that it is possible that some folks, sometimes, do get incoherently intoxicated, and violent, when out drinking in public. I can't remember the last time I saw this (not even back in my college days) but I know it DOES happen. And let's say that I'd make a bad enough choice about the establishment I'm visiting, or just have the dumb luck to stumble into such a situation. The fact that the law could prohibit ME from being armed will be COLD comfort as some drunk tough guy is swinging a broken bottle (or pointing HIS GUN) at me and my family! No matter where I am nor what I've had to drink, the responsibility and the right to effectively defend myself and my loved ones belongs to me alone.

-Sam

 

[jcwit]

Well Pa. IS #4 in alcohol related deaths per the latest stastic. Overall so far this year its over 800 folks gone in the U.S.A.

Not against a drink or two, but for to many folks it doesn't stop there, and the above is sorta a waste.

And we're worried about the dangers of lead.

 

[Sam1911]

Well Pa. IS #4 in alcohol related deaths per the latest statistic.

Gun- AND alcohol-related deaths? Per capita?

its over 800 folks gone in the U.S.A. ... sorta a waste.

Would it make you feel any better, little girl, if they was pushed out of windows?

LOL!

-Sam

 

[jcwit]

I sincerely hope the LOL! is not ment for

Quote:
its over 800 folks gone in the U.S.A. ... sorta a waste.

sam.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
Well Pa. IS #4 in alcohol related deaths per the latest statistic.

Gun- AND alcohol-related deaths? Per capita?

Driving related, but does it matter? Only if its a member of your immediate family?

 

[Deanimator]

I carry or I drink. I NEVER do both.

 

[Uncle Mike]

what I tend to like isn't cheap, and it's not exactly ideal for guzzling, anyway.

Come on AB...how expensive can Mad Dog 20/20 be?

It's not the alcohol that's the problem when combined with firearms....it's the turd drinking too much of the stuff! :banghead:

 

[jcwit]

You nailed it Mike!

 

[ArmedBear]

Never had Mad Dog.

Something with "20" in the name is fine, if that refers to years spent in the cask.

 

[Prion]

I'm torn on the issue. I can definitely see both sides of the argument. I lean toward clean carrying though. If you did have to shoot someone wouldn't you want to be competely free from any suspicion about the role alcohol may have played. What if the case went to court? I think no drinking is gonna look better than even one in the eyes of a conflicted jury. Worth the risk?

 

[RETG]

I have on average, one drink per year, so I'm always asked to be the 'armed designated driver.'

 

[earlthegoat2]

In a state I used to live in there was a loophole where you could not drink WHILE carrying but could drink as much as you wanted to BEFORE carrying. So you could get trashed at the watering hole get a ride home and then strap on your gun and take your dog for a walk.

 

[wishin]

In Georgia, You can CC in an establishment than derives less than 50% of its business from alcohol beverage sales, but you can't drink booze.

 

[finnfur]

In virginia

J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years

J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; however, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer or any retired law-enforcement officer who meets the definition of a "qualified retired law-enforcement officer" pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 926C and is carrying the identification required by such statute from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

However , I dont go to bars and as the man says "never been checked for weapon in a restaurant" . So sometimes you think should I get carried by six or tried by twelve . Its food for thought but we hopefully will get the restaurant / alcohol ban changed this year after removing the veto prone anti- second amendment governor who is now Chairman of the national Democratic party.

 

[finnfur]

I have on average, one drink per year, so I'm always asked to be the 'armed designated driver.'

RETG
Let me guess . That ones on Newyears eve and then your resolution is to quit .

 

[Isher]

Hmmm......

Well, dang it, I can remember many a day of

Hunting and fishing that started off, after breakfast

With a shot of hard likker. Call it tradition.

And I don't appreciate being fenced in

By the neo-retro-moralists.

The use of alcohol is in no way more or less reprehensible

Than the use of gunpowder.

Both, after all, have been proven to be deleterious substances.

So, give up both.

Oh - and by the way, sex fits into that category also.

isher

 

[zxcvbob]

By the neo-retro-moralists.

I was thinking "Neo-Prohibitionists".

__________________
"Lips that touch liquor will never touch mine"

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Went to my favorite pizza establishment today at noon to get a sausage sandwich to go. Had a beer while I waited, too, while I passed the time of day with Natalie, the waitress.

My Colt was on my hip the whole time. Nothing bad happened.

"Zero Tolerence" is foolish, no matter which side of the fence is selling it.

 

[Frank Ettin]

One thing to consider: If you defend yourself after consuming alcohol, there is no way to guarantee that the alcohol won't be a factor. In fact, since a big part of deciding the question of whether or not your use of force was justified will depend on your credibility, an assessment of your judgment, and the reliability of your perception, it's hard to imagine it not being a factor. Just the way it is in the real world, and it's up to you to decide how to handle that reality. You pays your money and you takes your chance.

 

[Atroxus]

Personally I don't see a problem with a drink or two with while carrying. Matter of fact last year I went to a new years eve party at a friends house I had a drink while I was there and was carrying. I limit myself to no more than one drink in a given 2 hours if armed though, but thats just me.

I don't advocate breaking the law either, but as some have pointed out laws vary by state. In washington it is illegal to carry in "That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age." Which I understand to mean that I can carry in the family dining area of a restaraunt but not the bar. Personally I don't see the difference since you can get alcohol in both places, but unless the laws changes I gotta live with it.