Am. Eagle AE223 primer pocket sleeve

[RRA223]

I want reload some Am. Eagle (AE223) cases. But they appear to have smaller primers with a primer pocket sleeve. I can not use an RCBS hand primer to force the new CCI primers into the cases. What am I doing wrong or what is it that I do not understand?

Thanks!

 

[layusn1]

I have heard several people say no to buy their ammo or reload their cases because they are horribly inconsistent so I have stayed away from them. For more info see the AR15 forum's boards.

 

[nitesite]

Welcome to The High Road.

A lot of Federal AE .223 ammunition was loaded with Lake City Munitions Plant cases which normally go to military contracts. That brass has primers that have been crimped in. The primer pocket mouth is rolled inward over the edge of the primer to prevent it from backing out in loosely chambered rifles.

De-priming your brass doesn't get all of the crimp smoothed out (it kind of springs back in). Subsequently when you try to re-prime your cases the primer won't go into the pocket. A tool known as a primer pocket reamer will cut off that crimp edge and bevel the mouth for easier re-priming. They are very cheap, but time consuming. The good news is that you only have to do it once on each case.

Does your headstamp have L C and two numerals and a NATO symbol (cross in a circle)?

 

[Car Knocker]

layusn1,

I think you're confusing American Eagle with AMERC.

 

[nitesite]

Forgot to add that as a general rule the Federal Cartridge brass in .223 Remington (headstamped F C .223 REM) has very loose primer pockets that are almost oversized for small rifle primers. Seating primers in F C brass is incredibly easy. That's why I'm guessing you have Lake City mil-spec cases.

F C makes good reloaded ammunition for bolt rifles with tighter headspace, but can be problematic in loosely chambered semi-autos with greater headspace.

Keep in mind that mil-spec brass has thicker walls and therefore slightly less case volume, which can lead to slightly higher pressures. Be cautious when loading at or near MAX loads when using mil-spec cases.

 

[goon]

The pockets are probably crimped.
Cleaning them out with a reamer is one way to do it but it is time consuming and tiring, and therefore, not the most consistent way to do it.
I have done this with LC 7.62 brass and it was not my idea of fun.
Do a search and you will find answers on some better tools for this job.

 

[nitesite]

I think you're confusing American Eagle with AMERC.

Don,

Good thought, and a valid one. I agree with you. AMERC is horrible. But doesn't he have the right product code (AE223) for Federal ammunition?

Maybe the OP should re-check what he's got.

 

[RRA223]

nitesite,

yes, the headstamp has L C and two numerals (06) and a NATO symbol (cross in a circle). It maybe what appears to be a sleeve is just the crimp. I will get the proper tool and remove the crimp.

The rds are American Eagle (not AMERIC). I purchased them new with the hope to reload the brass.

I just found THR and have already found alot of helpful info. Thanks everyone!

 

[nitesite]

Some tools to swage out the primer pocket are fantastic but can be expensive ($60 - $90).

I used a cordless drill with a primer pocket reamer chucked in it, and to hold the cases (my hand cramped after the first couple dozen) with more comfort I stuck the case into a short length of 3/8" fuel hose. You can buy a foot of it at an auto parts store for a buck.

The reamer does the job in under ten seconds.

 

[layusn1]

I think you might be right car knocker...but the forum I suggested is still a good place for 223 specific info. Thank you for the correction (not being sarcastic).

I use the RCBS Primer Pocket Swagger tool. It was $26 bucks and well worth it. It may be slight more clumsy than other more expensive tools but it does the job well enough for me and you cannot accidentally cut out too much of the primer pocket like you can with the cheaper alternatives.

F C cases work very well for me. I get 5 shot groups I can cover with a dime using F C cases, W748 powder and CCI Magnum Small Rifle Primers. I do use less than the max powder and that can be explained by the smaller case capacity.

 

[Car Knocker]

You're welcome. The similar names seem to mislead many people - probably why American chose to use that name, if not to outright piggyback on a respected manufacturer of quality ammunition.

 

[layusn1]

It worked...lol. I passed up tons of good deals on American Eagle 223 because of the confusion. I will buy decent ammo in good brass just to harvest the brass after plinking Hunting Shack ammo comes to mind. I will look at American Eagle ammo again.

 

[ocabj]

yes, the headstamp has L C and two numerals (06) and a NATO symbol (cross in a circle). It maybe what appears to be a sleeve is just the crimp. I will get the proper tool and remove the crimp.

The rds are American Eagle (not AMERIC). I purchased them new with the hope to reload the brass.

You got these cases from actual red box Federal American Eagle ammo? That's strange considering Federal usually only uses LC for the commercially available beige box XM193. Red Box commercial Federal American Eagle usually uses FC brass.

But yes, LC, or Lake City brass has crimped primer pockets.

 

[nitesite]

Jonathan~

Please see this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=208637&highlight=American+Eagle



While not extremely common, it does happen! The cases are even highly polished.

 

[RavenVT100]

You got these cases from actual red box Federal American Eagle ammo? That's strange considering Federal usually only uses LC for the commercially available beige box XM193. Red Box commercial Federal American Eagle usually uses FC brass.

I have a bunch of those as well, they are definitely military brass and they have a crimp. Federal merely used them to make AE 223s. I've gotten at least two boxes of AE 223 that used the Lake City brass.

You will need to swage or ream the primer pocket in order to remove the crimp, as the above posters have recommended.

 

[E121FX]

oooh oooh!!! Me too Me too!!!

I just posted this to my journal... it was a little enlightening to see I wasn't alone...
Thanks for the posts guys it really helped...
Oh yeah, not LC but FC 07 .223 50-55gr FMJ's and FBHP's
Red Boxes...

I had to reload my .223 Federal Ammo lately... American Eagle brand brass... The primers kept getting jammed crammed mangled and worse... I'm tired I thoght, maybe thats it... nope... the primer pockets were crimped... did I know??? Hell No?!?
I thought I was losing, was about to trash the whole lot of brass...
Then a thought,, I have a flash hole reamer... after three shell I got tired and wen to the garage to see what else there was... this has happened to me before and it was long and tedious to get the primers in the damn pockets... this should be fun not problematic... well after I found the Lyman deburring tool I was done... That was it... I did all 50 shells in no time, soon to get the auto deburring tool... seen it some where locally... that'll help in the future.... I kept testing the primning after every 10-15 rounds to make sure I was on... I used to use the hand primer feeder... but the ram tool -one at a time just satisfied my passion for justice...

 

[Oohrah]

A couple of years back, our military 223 was dangerously low.
Federal ran their plant 7/24, but had to contract out to Israel
for our military needs. Pretty sure that left over cases for
military contracts could have ended up in the comercial low end
ammo.

 

[whofan]

Funny that I would run into this thread today. Just a few days ago I loaded a bunch of FC marked brass that had the primer crimp. Also had some type of primer sealant that was red.

These cases gave me fits for a number of reasons. First of all, the crimp was almost never centered, ala Lake City brass. Second, I believe that on many of them the flash hole was not centered.

I used my Dillon crimp remover tool, but still had trouble seating the new primers about 25 percent of the time. The primer would catch on one of the uneven edges of the old crimp. I was able to seat the primer properly on all but 5-6 cases out of 500, however.

The loaded rounds made from these cases work just fine.

I may have to tinker with my crimp remover to make it work better with the FC marked cases that are crimped. However, I like to leave it at a setting that works for the Lake City brass. That setting seems to work for most of the imported crimped brass, also.

 

[RavenVT100]

Funny that I would run into this thread today. Just a few days ago I loaded a bunch of FC marked brass that had the primer crimp. Also had some type of primer sealant that was red.

Yep. Same as mine. They are military brass but they apparently have the regular federal commercial primer. It is very soft. I shot a bunch with my ARs and on every single one, the primer metal is flowing back into the hole.

 

[nitesite]

A couple of years back, our military 223 was dangerously low. Federal ran their plant 7/24, but had to contract out to Israel for our military needs. Pretty sure that left over cases for military contracts could have ended up in the comercial low end ammo.

I believe that what you are describing was another military small arms contract with Winchester at around the same time. Winchester sub-contracted a part of its production to IMI in Israel. Domestic 5.56mm ammo was labeled Q3131 and Israeli was Q3131A. I don't recall ATK/Federal sending a sub-contract to Israel.

Of course, it's also possible that ATK/Federal did the same thing but I have not heard of it.

Also, a lot of shooters don't consider Q3131 or Q3131A to be low-end amunition.

Respectfully,

nitesite