American Girls’ Suicide Rates Rise

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Statistically, there have always been gender differences in suicide methods.

Woman generall preferred pills, hanging, or jumping to gunfire, and even when gunfire is selected, women tend to shoot themselves in the chest, where men tend to shoot themselves in the head.

I would guess that hanging surpassing gunfire is primarily more due to the uptick of female suicides than any other factor.

The article addresses this question here:

The study also documented a change in suicide method. In 1990, guns accounted for more than half of all suicides among young females. By 2004, though, death by hanging and suffocation became the most common suicide method. It accounted for about 71 percent of all suicides in girls aged 10-14, 49 percent among those aged 15-19 and 34 percent between 20-24.

Since firearms accounted for "more than half" of all the suicides at one point, hanging could be at most 49%. Now hanging accounts for 71%.

IIRC John Lott discusses this in one of his books, calling it substitution. A study compared the rates and methods of suicide in several countries. Two of them were Japan and the United States. Japan has a higher rate of suicide than the U.S.A., but a far lower rate of firearm ownership. The Japanese found other ways to commit suicide.

It might be in a different author's book.
 
As for school, I know I hated almost every minute of it. Luckily, I was the type to have an active fantasy life, so I dreamed my way through the worst of it. Suicide never seemed reasonable to me, and we were all shocked when a well-liked boy in school did it.

It would not surprise me to hear that school was a 'cause' of suicide, at least in kids already predisposed to it.
 
Ive been a street medic for 8 years now. By far the overwhelming majority of suicide attempts I've seen are teenage girls-typically after getting dumped . Usually its a pretty lame attempt, like 3 tylenol and a wine cooler. Older women go a little farther but are almost never succesful.
Id guess that males are still comitting suicide at a much higher rate, but I haven't seen the data gathered on it.
Still a shame though. And it seems our youth are getting more and more drugged and depressed, and being a kid is tough in the first place.
 
School--tell me about it. We moved when my son (now doing well, almost 30) was 16. Lots of stress, mostly school-related. When, in addition to that, some of the local kids saw an opportunity to mess up his knee in PE, I wound up with a pretty depressed kid on crutches. I went to see the local principal to express my concerns, and he couldn't care less...if he had known what was in my mind at the time he would have wet himself.

It all worked out. No thanks to that "professional" educator.

No grandkids yet but the odds are high that they *will* be homeschooled--and I will be happy to help pay whatever it takes.

Kids have it rough these days. We owe them our best, not the floor sweepings.
 
Beginning in 1997, among persons aged 10--14 years, suffocation surpassed firearms as the most common suicide method. The decline in firearm suicides combined with the increase in suicides by suffocation suggests that changes have occurred in suicidal behavior among youths during the preceding decade.

The above is from the same CDC report and refers to suicides of both sexes.

I don't think that the facts will have any effect whatsoever on the beliefs or actions of anti-gun people. Their belief systems seem not to have much basis in fact. They are true believers.

I apologize for interrupting this discussion of homeschooling. :)
 
Is there really a problem?

As tragic as each individual suicide is, I don't believe the facts point to society-wide problem. If .0001% of our population commits suicide, does this indicate an social problem, or a peculiar individual problem? If 99.9999% of Americans will not commit suicide, do we really have a problem that can be fixed with generous amounts of social-engineering?
 
I don't think that the facts will have any effect whatsoever on the beliefs or actions of anti-gun people. Their belief systems seem not to have much basis in fact. They are true believers.

Absolutely right! But the article, and the study behind it, will provide ammunition to rebutt their arguments - particularly in public forums such as news media editorials. I think that it is far more productive to address those that are undecided and still have open minds. When it comes to a debate or discussion, gun control advocates tend to be emotional, with arguments that are a mile wide and an inch deep.
 
With the proper spin, this can be viewed as a victory for the gun control crowd IMHO. They've pushed for more gun control and now there is data that proves (in their mind) that it led to less suicides by firearms. They don't care what the suicide rate is in this case. As long as the use of firearms is down it proves they have been successful in curtailing a certain type of gun violence with gun control.
 
Adolescence is a tough time all around.
Just about everybody is fighting a private battle. Some more than others. A few carrying unimaginable burdens. Preps, jocks, burnouts, skateboarder types, losers, and stoners. God the labels.
Hell, I'm surprised I made it through.

Oh, I hung out with the skateboarder crowd by the way. Most from broken homes. NOBODY messed with us. Not even the jocks. They knew better. We'd whip their asses in a heartbeat.
I guess you could say we all got eachother through.
 
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They think they are superior, caring parents but they are often raising social freaks.

As opposed to the liberal amounts of social freaks coming out of the public system?

A lot of the junk they teach in public schools these days i wouldn't want my kids to learn. I.E. Guns are bad, we're destroying the earth or trust the Gov they are your friend.

A lot of debates i have had with the younger types start out with "well in school we learned".

Home schooling isn't bad when the kids are allowed to get out and meet others. I've met plenty of good kids that have been home schooled.
 
Not to mention being locked in those internment camps they call "schools" all day. Homeschooling. It's for the children.

Gotta agree with that. My high school years were hell, and after that I was involved, on a volunteer basis, with a suicide prevention program. I can't help but think the pressures of growing up and school have gotten much worse these days. Reading articles like Old Fluff posted hits me hard.

There are facts there that we can use to counter the gun-banners arguments, but also think of positive ways you can have an impact on young people you know.
 
I'm sorry, I just have to say something about the little public vs. home school debate going on here. A kid's schooling does not determine their entire path in life. Granted, it does have an influence, but just because someone goes to public school does not mean that they will become a gun-grabbing, environmentalist liberal. Keep in mind that the kids go home every day, where their parents can easily teach them good values to counter the BS often taught in the schools. Perhaps it's better if people would do that so that their kid can go teach the same stuff to his/her friends; I don't know. I completely understand people who homeschool their kids and don't want that to be part of their child's primary education (trust me on this), but you shouldn't automatically assume that the public school system will have such a huge influence that any child exposed to it will turn out horribly. Anyone who takes responsibility for raising his/her own child should end up with a reasonably good kid (or adult, rather), regardless of school.

For the record, I'm not really on either side of this issue. I support home schoolers and despise all the **** that's taught in the public schools these days. Hell, I ain't gonna let my kids even begin to belive any of it (if/when I have kids, that is). However, home schooling is definitely not for everyone, and as I said before, it doesn't make all that much of a difference in the end, as long as the parent takes responsibility as a parent and doesn't just let the school raise their kid (which, sadly, has been very much on the decline).
 
StuckInMA:

As long as the use of firearms is down it proves they have been successful in curtailing a certain type of gun violence with gun control.

They'll have trouble with that too. Over the time period cited in the study more states passed "shall issue" CCW laws, Alaska eliminated any restrictions, and the number of guns (especially handguns) substantially increased. Data is available at the ATF&E website.

And again, the CDC says:

The CDC is advising health officials to consider focusing suicide-prevention programs on girls ages 10-19 and boys between 15-19 to reverse the trends.

Which many of the posts on this thread are advocating too in one way or another. In addition the CDC says that:

... prevention measures focused solely on restricting access to pills, weapons or other lethal means may have more limited success.

Which we have been saying all of the time. ;)
 
I am so depressed I want to kill myself... What? Oh, I can't get a gun to do the deed with?

Oh, I guess I will just have to get happy again and rule out any other method for suicide and go on with my life... :uhoh:
 
One of the biggest societal malfunctions is the concept of "normal." People are different. They grow at different rates, mature at different rates, have different interests, different talents, different abilities. But the school system doesn't recognize this. They need people to deveolop the same, learn the same ways, and at the same rates for their regimented programs of intstruction to work. Hence, when any individual falls too far outside the norms that their programs are designed to work with, the system tries to "normalize" him. Enter the "normality," drugs. Prozac, Ritalin, et cetera. "Forget indivdual attention, if they aren't 'normal,' then let's drug 'em till the are!"

Ick. I had particularly poor experiences in public schools. Haven't really gotten myself straightened out, yet. Working on it, though.

~~~Mat
 
Hell, I ain't gonna let my kids even begin to belive any of it (if/when I have kids, that is).

Hazel, that can cause a lot of friction between kids and teachers; "But my folks said _____!" "Well, your folks are wrong, _____ is the way it is!"

I had plenty of those arguments.

BTW, is that Hazel Meade, Hazel Davis, Hazel Stone, Gwen Novak, or Gwen/Hazel Ames/Campbell?

~~~Mat
 
Mat, not doormat you make a great point.
I wanted out of high school so bad you wouldn't believe it. And the thought of more classrooms via college turned me off completely. I ABSOLUTELY HATED IT. HATED IT WITH A BURNING PASSION.
It would be years before I returned to a normal school. Guess what? I HATED IT AGAIN.
 
The article is not written my mentally sound individuals.
proof.
quote
"In 1990, guns accounted for more than half of all suicides among young females. By 2004, though, death by hanging and suffocation became the most common suicide method. It accounted for about 71 percent of all suicides in girls aged 10-14, 49 percent among those aged 15-19 and 34 percent between 20-24."

Guns are not responsible for anything. Guns are inanimate objects. Inanimate objects cannot be attached responsibility. They are not sentient. By taking personal responsibility out of the equation you are supporting Sigmund Freud's contention that "the fear of weapons and similar inanimate objects is a sign of dementia", I cannot give legitimacy to an article written by the mentally ill.
 
I wanted out of high school so bad you wouldn't believe it. And the thought of more classrooms via college turned me off completely. I ABSOLUTELY HATED IT. HATED IT WITH A BURNING PASSION.
It would be years before I returned to a normal school. Guess what? I HATED IT AGAIN.
As did I. I coasted through high school and didn't do badly at all. Mostly I was bored with it. When the time came to go to college, I was 38. This time it was for me and I excelled. But I still HATED EVERY MINUTE of it. One of the best days of my life was my final day of college.

I received a free gun from a family member that didn't want it around anymore due to another family member being on constant suicide watch after a couple attempts. The attempts were not gun related but no chances were being taken.
 
You do have a point there, Mat. I suppose it can cause a good deal of arguments. I usually just sat quietly and rolled my eyes every time a teacher said something ignorant, so I guess I didn't really think of that. Eventually, I got fed up with listening to it though, and asked my parents if I could home school. I'm also sorry to hear you had bad experiences in public school, and hope you get it all worked out.
To answer your question, Hazel Meade is who I had in mind. Haven't read the other books in which she's mentioned, though I definitely intend to.

Well, I want to add something to keep this on topic, but there's not much to say except more speculation. Every case of it is different and there are many different possible causes for someone to go that far. People are over-drugged for it, though. Modern medicine isn't the answer to everything.
 
With the proper spin, this can be viewed as a victory for the gun control crowd IMHO. They've pushed for more gun control and now there is data that proves (in their mind) that it led to less suicides by firearms.

Someone probably will try to make this claim, but it won't work. The number of gun owners increased by around ten million since 1990, and the number of privately owned firearms in this country increased by far more than that.

IIRC NRA had some specific numbers, but the AW ban and the advent of RTC laws drove firearm sales to new heights. In fact, it "proves" that more private guns and gun owners decreases firearm suicides. :)
 
Old Fluff and sig226. You're thinking too rationally and not putting enough spin on it. ;) More guns only means more crime when they want it too. If you take Alaska out of the equation (which they most certainly will) they will tell you that their legislation was so good that it worked even though gun ownership increased.

If they march that message out in front of fence sitters and anti's who don't have the whole story or both sets of facts they may just believe it.

Keep in mind I think it's a bs argument. I just see it as something to keep in mind in case they do choose to go that route.
 
Hazel, defintitely do read more Heinlein. His books are all very good, and some are truly outstanding. I'd say that The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Stranger in a Strange Land, Starship Trooperrs, and Time Enough for Love, are peerless in sci/fi.

I suppose I should probably put something in to keep this somewhat on topic. Hmm. There are far too many ways to kill oneself, or others, for that matter, for any attempt to control killing through controlling the tools to have any real effect.

Imagine, for a moment what life will be like once the Nanny State progresses to the point that ALL available methods of harming one's self or one's fellow man have been eliminated or controlled: no guns; all cooking done in communal kitchens, with only specially trained persons having access to kn ives, all powered vehicles removed from human control, all ropes designed break @ 100 lbs of pressure, no platic bags, all buildings, bridges, and other high structures built with safety nets; all rocks permanently glued to the ground, and even then, there are still a zillion ways to do it. Any tool can be used as a makeshift weapon. In the modern world, there's always electricity. Even with all that taken away, a healthy human is never totally disarmed. Hands, feet, knees, elbows, shins, even teeth can all do the job. In the end, the only way to stop a determined person from killing is solitary confinement. The only way to stop a person determined to kill himself is total physical restraint. The question then becomes: what's the point?

In the end, there are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men.


~~~Mat
 
StuckInMA:

If they march that message out in front of fence sitters and anti's who don't have the whole story or both sets of facts they may just believe it.

Of course they will, or at least some of them will. That's why it's important to disprove what the anti's say with reports from unimpeachable sources like this one. This is the way to attack their creditability. Do nothing and they win by default.
 
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