Ammo ban scare tactic for sales

[ID-shooting]

Gun buddy and I are on a road trip with our wifes a few towns over. While the wifes are looking thier places of interest, we google FFL dealers in this new town and do out own browsing. We walk into one that has a good supply of mil-surp ammo, reloading stuff and some gear. As we are browsing the shelves, the gal at the counter asks if we are looking for .223. We reply with, "not really, just browsing" (both of us are stocked fairly well on ammo). She then proceeds to go into how "ALL rifle ammo is now banned" and we should buy up all the 7.62x51 battle packs they had, and there will be no more .223 or 7.62x39. There are about 5 or 6 other guys in the shop but I could not contain myself. I called her on her BS and explained to the whole place the true story. We left without buying a thing, I just can't bring it myself to support retailers who flat out lie to drive the panic for profit.

So, when you guys encounter this, to just move on or do you tell them they are full of crap?

 

[Thermactor]

Unscrupulous retailers have long used rumors and panics to part fools from their money. You'll see a lot of uneducated hayseeds buying into it too. As long as the hayseeds buy it, retailers will lie about it.

The worst offenders are those who are now labeling their remaining stocks of M855 as if it's our last chance to get this high-tech military only teflon-coated Armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot Black Talon SXT assault bullet. Mix ignorance about the round itself (Alex Jones was saying that it has a tungsten penetrator! He has millions of listeners!) with legitimate fear and loathing of the executive's power grabbing nature, and you have a ready audience of people who will accept what you say. And buy your product.

The FUD (Fear, uncertainty and doubt) is absolutely astounding, however. I was at Wal-Mart earlier and a guy who was panicking checked with me if I wanted any of the Federal 5.56 he was going to buy out of. I said.. nah no thanks that's just M193.
He said "That doesn't mean we can't still panic, right?" Haha. He paid something like $.50/rd for some M193. I got a couple boxes of ZQI SS109 at $.33/rd.
The Federal stuff was overpriced to begin with, the ZQI stuff is right-priced panic or not and may not be available later on.

Earlier on I was there and a guy was talking about an executive order banning all high powered rifle ammo, and paid out the nose for a bunch of "306" ammo. He bought Remington Core-Lokt 30-06 soft points. The softest, least threatening large rifle round outside of a frangible. Meanwhile cases of steel core 5.56 nato sat undisturbed by his panic.

 

[hatt]

If you call out the gun stores on their BS you might not have any stores to go to. Such blatant nonsense had to be called out. You did good.

 

[buck460XVR]

I've seen it on gun forums where ammo dealers are new members with one post and are claiming to have M855 in stock. I see in the local paper where some LGSs are advertising getting your ".223 ammo, before it's all gone". Already seeing local ads on swap/sell sites from folks with M855 ammo at ridiculous prices. Are any of them going to tell you to wait and see if the ban goes thru before you panic?

 

[Tommygunn]

I haven't encountered the "ALL rifle ammo is now banned" crowd anywhere around here. There is some confusion, however, about what 5.56mm. ammo is being banned; a few people think all of it is, and some think "armor piercing" is, not realizing M855 and 109 are not true AP rounds. I do correct what I hear that's wrong, and interestingly it has yet to be any counterperson or salesman.
Some I guess are trying to push sales for more profit ... as they raise prices due to the "scare" and demand.

At this moment in time we see the potential ban effecting only AR ammo that has those little metal inserts in the nose of the bullet, and it's being done as a "reinterpretation" of existing regulations.
But at some point in the future we might very well be facing bans of other kinds of ammunition in numerous other calibers.
What is "armor piercing?" A lot of regs are aimed at handgun ammo.

Consider a scene from an old episode of the Fox TV series, "COPS." Police are dispatched to a "man with a gun call." Arriving on scene a foot chase ensues, the subject dropping his rifle, a Winchester model 94 in .30-30. Picking up the rifle upon securing the scene the police officer states for the camera, "if the perp had shot me with this, it would have gone through my vest, through me, and through my vest again on the way out." Obviously the officer was wearing a ballistic vest rated against only handgun ammo, one worn under a duty shirt.
Now the .30-30 is not by any means what the military would consider a armor piercing round, but think for a minute how some politicians would consider the above scene; you BET they would make a century+ old rifle ammo restricted as being "AP."
Or, they would be simply ignorant and sign onto such a law just to "protect" policemen.
I don't think that scenario is very unlikely, which is why we all need to keep our eyes on the government and keep in contact with our representatives.

 

[AlexanderA]

This is an old story, of dealers spreading rumors in order to hype sales. From what I've seen, gun show traders are worse offenders than brick-and-mortar gun shops.

The antigunners initiate the panics (which is an irony in itself, since the actual result of their efforts -- increased sales -- is the opposite of what they intend), but our side magnifies them. I attribute this to simple greed rather than misinformation.

 

[hso]

Happens every time a banic breaks out.

 

[notaglockfanboy]

I will call them out on their ignorance/greediness, but most of the time I get the "Ya huh, that's what they said on the internet"!!!!!! This is the point where I realize who exactly I am dealing with, which is the same type who jack the price of ammo up to make money from people who are loyal customers and give the GS a lot of business. There is no cure for ignorance or greed.

 

[Walkalong]

Just calmly tell whoever it is the truth and leave it at that. No sense in getting upset about it, just spread the truth around when presented with this baloney and then let it be.

 

[tarosean]

I was just at my local big box retailer.. ZERO 556, plenty of 223. leads me to believe its the ignorant public....

 

[barnbwt]

Puh-leez. I own a five-seven; you should hear half the crud bandied about that gun/ammo even by our own 'friendlies'

Sales tactics all prey on emotion and ignorance; these are no different.

TCB

 

[Thermactor]

Puh-leez. I own a five-seven; you should hear half the crud bandied about that gun/ammo even by our own 'friendlies'

Sales tactics all prey on emotion and ignorance; these are no different.

TCB

Is that the gun that shoots the notorious Black Talon round? You know, the one that fires an armor-seeking military-style assault full metal jacket steel core hollow point bullet with teflon coating out of a 20 round clip in half a second?

 

[Ignition Override]

The potential for it to really spread just before/after the Pres. Election in '16 is just another reason why it's nice to have a pair of SKS (7.62x39) and multiple cases of ammo for it.

A friend's Colt AR-15 is stored here but never gets used.
If the .223 panic somehow becomes widespread (another mass tragedy-as always-will be a surprise), too bad for those who had/have cash for extra contingency ammo storage but postponed the action.

Some large ammo distributors created rumors of serious shortages a few years ago, because "Fear $ells".

 

[Tirod]

I frequent an auto forum and someone posted off topic about the ATF banning "all" ammo. Quite a few well heeled forumites but not all are versed on firearms ( or even drivetrains.)

Yes, some are playing the card. Would I choose to grandstand the opportunity to set some salesperson straight in front of other customers?

Doesn't that imply the customers there were too ignorant to know better? How did that assessment come about?

It's entirely possible they are more than aware that the store's help over does it. Making the big play may not have impressed them as much as you think - bad enough they have to put up with Suzy Salesmaker at the store, then a total stranger comes in and rants over her lies?

Unfortunately, as pointed out, the public often doesn't have a clue, but the public is well aware they are lied to in order to make a sale. I test that every now and then when someone asks what's the best product? There's no scientifically perfect answer to that, Consumer Reports on which car wax is best isn't something I can point to. BUT - I can point to the most expensive and suggest that. The immediate answer is to grab something at half the price they are comfortable with.

The public isn't that uninformed.

It's quite possible some were quite amused at your speech and that story is now circulating among their friends. Work retail and you find a lot of interesting people are out there, what you eventually adopt is a "grey man" attitude shopping because of it.

Unfortunately - with a lot of my own fingers pointing back - retailers hire the least expensive labor they can. And the public knows it. So they don't give them much heed because of it.

 

[joem1945]

I'm not worried about a ammo ban for myself but for others getting into shooting sports. when a NY government slug said these words (around 1992) " The Second Amendment may protect guns but it doesn't mention ammunition, we can put a 10,000 % tax on ammunition". Right then I started buying a lifetime supply of ammo and started reloading. I may not be able to shoot all my ammo before I gone but I can shoot as much as I care to.

 

[Blackbeard]

It may be hyperbole now, but give it two years. There is nobody to stand in the way of this administration's goals.

 

[JFtheGR8]

It may be hyperbole now, but give it two years. There is nobody to stand in the way of this administration's goals.

That's why I'm trying to stock up as much as I can. Their game is incrementalism and so is mine now. I don't have the finances to buy pallet loads but I sure can buy a couple hundred rounds per month. They won't stop at M855. Nothing is off limits to this administration.

 

[Greg528iT]

I sigh.. explain.. "steel core" yadda yadda.. was originally banned under Reagan.. but got a exemption due to some sporting groups wanting to shoot it. blah blah


What I can't explain.. Why would a sporting group want to shoot steel core? If I was hunting bear.. I'd NOT pick a .223 round of anything.. so penetrating a bear skull is not it. Maybe 7.62 / .308..
I've read, cause it was plentiful.. but I've not seen any 5.56 round as cheap as .223 plinkers.

 

[krupparms]

I spoke to 5 police officers about this ban on. 223 ammo this week. All rolled their eyes. They all agreed that it would not help or protect them. They also stated that they felt the law would be unconstitutional. They felt it was useless & would not save lives. This is from the group that this law is supposed to protect! Seems like the government is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist! Their conclusion was that it was backdoor gun control & scare tactics.

 

[Greg528iT]

about this ban on. 223 ammo this week

This is where some of this begins.. Here we are talking about it, the specifics of it.. and still misinformation

It's NOT a ban on .223 ammo. It's Applying the Reagan era restriction on 5.56 Steel Core or similar core ammo. While not armor piercing, it falls into that category.

 

[orionengnr]

"I just can't bring it myself to support retailers who flat out lie to drive the panic for profit. "

I didn't know you had a Cheaper Than Dirt up in Idaho...

 

[krupparms]

Greg :The ammo was being used by competition shooters and not for hunting. There are other shooting sports besides hunting. Also surplus ammo used to be cheaper. Not sure what you meant by .223 plinkers. Shooting competition sports have become very popular around the country and are the reason for the original exemption if I remember right. I sure someone here can explain it better. Also I know it doesn't include all. 223 ammo,so did the police.

 

[Greg528iT]

What I read was.. it was ONLY 5.56 NOT .223 so to say .223 when discussing this ban is adding to the hype.

Yes surplus ammo used to be cheaper.. I've not looked at the exact specs, but kinda figure that "competition shooting" would use rounds better than "surplus". If it's surplus from the Army, then it's MilSpec.. MilSpec is contracted to the lowest bidder. It's not going to be premium accuracy rounds. It'd be. rounds good for plinking with.

If it's about supply and demand, then the manufacturer of a steel core 5.56 is going to convert over to a non steel core round to sell to the consumer. Thus keeping his machines running and producing as much ammo as before.

 

[coloradokevin]

Sometimes the retail staff comes by it honestly enough… while ignorant of pending legislation, I think many of them actually believe that all .223/5.56mm ammo is on the chopping block right now.

I've heard a number of people repeat such a rumor this week, and none of them are people who would intentionally lie to me. It's basically gossip: they heard it from someone, and they're telling everyone else what they heard.

Of course, some people are just opportunistic profiteers who want to take advantage of an unsuspecting public.

 

[TimSr]

I think it's a leap to conclude that sales people repeating what they hear, or may even believe, is a well thought out conspiracy in order to boost sales. Unless the "gal at the counter" owned the place, what woudl she have to gain.

People read things, and repeat them whether they have any personal knowledge or not. Its human nature. I've seen many BS internet old wives tales move from forum to forum, so I'd expect to see them pop up in gun stores too.

I doubt she was trying to scare you into buying ammo. She probably was repeating something she heard. She may have been trying to start convesation, and wanted your take on it. What is and is not in a specific proposal is of less interest to me than the overall goal, and the incremental steps towards it. Does anybody doubt that this pen and phone administration would not issue an edict tomorrow banning all personal firearms ownership if they could get away with it? You can never be complacement based on the current unliklihood of success, when people out there in power still have the will and desire. Consider the current 5.56 ban proposal to be probing the perimeter defenses for much more intrusive attacks down the road.