Animal reaction to being shot...
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wankerjake
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Reactions to being shot... they can be wild and different but I've made some generalizations:
Neck/Spine: If you break the spinal cord, they go down. Right now. It's science, the ability of motor skills is completely disabled below where the injury to the spinal cord is. I like neck shots for this reason and have purposefully shot spine many times but it's not my first choice anymore. I used to do this because I have a colorblindness (red/green thing) and I cannot see a blood trail without snow. Even a good blood trail, I can't follow it so I aim for places that allow me a very short tracking jobs. Lately, I shoot tough bullets and aim for shoulder which has worked very well so far.
Elk: are big and tough and half the time you can't tell if they've been hit. Even devastating shots I've seen them apparently "shrug off." They die of course but you can't readily tell if you've even hit them! I double lunged a small bull some years ago, he just stared at me and then followed the herd for ~300 yards before expiring. My wife hit a cow last year, got one lung and tore up the liver. I knew she hit it because of the sound the bullet made when it hit but the cow walked a few steps and was looking around confused until she toppled over a minute later. Her calf was in the way blocking a follow up. There are many more stories. Animals don't yell and scream and give up when they have been wounded, they don't know what's going on. So if they have the capacity and desire to move, they will until the blood runs out.
I always try to figure out what the bullet did, and the generalization that I have is that they do all kinds of stuff depending on how they hit. It's especially like a box of chocolates with cup and core, you never know what you're gonna get
My sample size is smaller but for me a bonded or monolithic bullet is more consistent than cup and core. You never know what a cup and core is going to do. I've had bonded and monolithics deflect but they still held together and none of them have blown up. I've taken to paying for a more consistent bullet, and since I favor broken bones to tracking jobs I buy the ones that are supposed to retain weight and penetrate. Results so far are extremely positive.
Neck/Spine: If you break the spinal cord, they go down. Right now. It's science, the ability of motor skills is completely disabled below where the injury to the spinal cord is. I like neck shots for this reason and have purposefully shot spine many times but it's not my first choice anymore. I used to do this because I have a colorblindness (red/green thing) and I cannot see a blood trail without snow. Even a good blood trail, I can't follow it so I aim for places that allow me a very short tracking jobs. Lately, I shoot tough bullets and aim for shoulder which has worked very well so far.
Elk: are big and tough and half the time you can't tell if they've been hit. Even devastating shots I've seen them apparently "shrug off." They die of course but you can't readily tell if you've even hit them! I double lunged a small bull some years ago, he just stared at me and then followed the herd for ~300 yards before expiring. My wife hit a cow last year, got one lung and tore up the liver. I knew she hit it because of the sound the bullet made when it hit but the cow walked a few steps and was looking around confused until she toppled over a minute later. Her calf was in the way blocking a follow up. There are many more stories. Animals don't yell and scream and give up when they have been wounded, they don't know what's going on. So if they have the capacity and desire to move, they will until the blood runs out.
I always try to figure out what the bullet did, and the generalization that I have is that they do all kinds of stuff depending on how they hit. It's especially like a box of chocolates with cup and core, you never know what you're gonna get
My sample size is smaller but for me a bonded or monolithic bullet is more consistent than cup and core. You never know what a cup and core is going to do. I've had bonded and monolithics deflect but they still held together and none of them have blown up. I've taken to paying for a more consistent bullet, and since I favor broken bones to tracking jobs I buy the ones that are supposed to retain weight and penetrate. Results so far are extremely positive.It's especially like a box of chocolates with cup and core, you never know what you're gonna get
GREAT way to put it.
ricebasher302
Member
Using a 7mm Rem Mag, I shot a bull elk in the neck below the head from the front. The bullet narrowly missed the spine, penetrated the neck, reentered the loin, penetrated about 10 more inches of loin and lodged along the spine.
That elk never flinched. He continued to stare at me for a couple seconds and then turned and ambled away. I fired 4 more times, reloaded and fired twice more. My confidence shaken, I only connected with three of the follow-up shots, but one was through the lungs, one was in the gut. My hunting partner even snuck a round into that elk.
Unlikely as it seems, the elk never humped up, shuddered, broke stride, shivered, wavered, or stumbled. After several minutes, the bull laid down and quietly expired. My hunting partner (who'd killed dozens of elk) and I were dumbstruck. It was as if we were firing blanks, but not even the noise affected that elk.
I'm not an amateur hunter, having taken countless deer and several elk. NOTHING is a guarantee.
Taurus 617 CCW
Member
I have taken 2 white tail deer and seen several more shot. Last year I shot a good size white tail doe at 50 feet with a 30-06 using Remington Core-lokt 150 gr. soft points. It was a double lung shot entering the front right just behind the shoulder. Exited with a fist-sized hole mid rib through the left side. She dropped in her tracks.
This year I took a white tail doe at about 75 yards using the same caliber and cartridge. The shot entered at the base of the neck just above the chest and exited through the top of the spinal cord just behind the front shoulders. It resulted in another DRT shot with a fist sized hole in the hide when I skinned her out. Neither deer moved an inch after being shot, they just dropped.
The most odd account I can remember was last year. We spotted a deer running down a ridge in a draw away from my hunting partner and I. The deer was about 150 yards away. He took a shot with his .243 (100 gr. soft points) and I watched the deer roll over himself backwards head first. He went over the back side of the ridge where we couldn't see him. I figured we had this one in the bag until we went to inspect. There was no deer, no blood trail, no tracks, nothing. We searched for two hours and never found a single clue. I figured he probably grazed it or the bullet went right past his head and he reacted. Very unusual.
This year I took a white tail doe at about 75 yards using the same caliber and cartridge. The shot entered at the base of the neck just above the chest and exited through the top of the spinal cord just behind the front shoulders. It resulted in another DRT shot with a fist sized hole in the hide when I skinned her out. Neither deer moved an inch after being shot, they just dropped.
The most odd account I can remember was last year. We spotted a deer running down a ridge in a draw away from my hunting partner and I. The deer was about 150 yards away. He took a shot with his .243 (100 gr. soft points) and I watched the deer roll over himself backwards head first. He went over the back side of the ridge where we couldn't see him. I figured we had this one in the bag until we went to inspect. There was no deer, no blood trail, no tracks, nothing. We searched for two hours and never found a single clue.
I figured he probably grazed it or the bullet went right past his head and he reacted. Very unusual.
Why, when I read the thread topic do I picture Forrest Gump yelling "Ahhh! Somethin bit me!!"?
Every animal is different unless a CNS shot is executed. Have seen big bull elk drop in their tracks from a .243 behind the shoulder yet see them run after a perfect placed 300WM in the same location. Deer are no different.
My favorite reactions to witness are from archery kills. One deer may take off at a dead sprint with its tail tucked. But I have killed several deer that after being shot, jumped, looked around, and went back to feeding until they fell over. Never had any idea they had even been hit.
Every animal is different unless a CNS shot is executed. Have seen big bull elk drop in their tracks from a .243 behind the shoulder yet see them run after a perfect placed 300WM in the same location. Deer are no different.
My favorite reactions to witness are from archery kills. One deer may take off at a dead sprint with its tail tucked. But I have killed several deer that after being shot, jumped, looked around, and went back to feeding until they fell over. Never had any idea they had even been hit.
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I always try to figure out what the bullet did, and the generalization that I have is that they do all kinds of stuff depending on how they hit. It's especially like a box of chocolates with cup and core, you never know what you're gonna get
This^^^^^.
I quit using cup and core bullets for anything but the lightest game like, whitetails, coyotes and similar such animals a long time ago.
As far as reactions to being hit. It depends on the specific animal, it depends on the species of animal and it depends on where you hit them. Heart sots are an interesting subject. If you destroy the heart muscle as in blowing the heart in half you will many times get a very scant or no blood trail. If the pump is not operating there is no way to pump blood. Zero blood pressure = zero blood trail until the blood level fills the chest enough to begin gushing out the bullet holes. That can take 50 to 100 yards of "death dash" sometimes before it begins. I've seen animals without a heart run 100 or more yards before they go down. I thick brush with no blood trail this can be a problem. Sometimes that exact same shot will cause the animal to hit the ground DRT on the spot.
Put a bullet over the heart through the "spaghetti junction" and the blood trail will generally be vast and easy to follow. They seem to die quicker as well. Lung shots are sometimes DRT sometimes they run 50 yards sometimes they run 500 yards depending on where in the lungs they are hit and the specific animal. I once put two well placed .470 NE express rounds, one 500 gr X bullet and one 500 gr solid through the lungs of a cape buffalo bull. Thirty minutes later not only was he still alive he was able to get to his feet and perform a very determines and almost deadly charge. That was the incident that made me quit lung shooting buffalo and move to the high shoulder shot. A cape buffalo with a hole through both shoulders and a torn up Aorta is almost always a very safe, very dead buffalo.
The last buff bull I killed, took one 300 gr TSX through both lings and the spaghetti junction over the heart. He was quartering away. he ran maybe 25 or 35 yards flopped over, gave a death bellow and went to the light. No drama, no charge, just a dead buffalo. Since I started using the same shot placement on North American game I've had very few blood trails to follow.
buck460XVR
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My experiences mirror BigBore 44's, especially with a bow hit. Many times, if one passes between the ribs and does not hit shoulder bone, deer do not even realize they have been shot. With a gun, most every shot and the resulting reaction is different, even if only ever so slightly. High shoulder double lung shots will generally make a buck rear before jumping just like a paunch hit will make them hump up. But not always. Over the years I have tried to judge where exactly the animal was hit by their reaction. Just as many times I have been wrong as I have been right.
Some bullet to be pushing a deer backwards.
Every animal I've ever shot has had too much mass to be moved by a few grams of lead, no matter how fast it's travelling. Maybe a reactive twitch or a simple crumpling collapse of the legs, but I've never managed to move one more than that.
I did slide a deer back in his tracks once.
Dunno if impact reaction or just how he fell.
I shot him at less than 25 yards with a 12 ga slug, right under the white patch on his throat. From the ground.
It was rainy and I was soaked, saw him a couple hundred out in the CRP and thought "WTH" and decided to see how close I could get. He was working a small pine and when the shot hit there was a big spray of water off him.
Shot another at 8 yards, from the ground (called in). Hot sabot slug entered front edge on onside shoulder, was found under hide of rear opp ham.
That deer jumped way high and trotted 75 yards out and stood. 2nd shot dropped him stone dead. Kinda fooled me for a sec, the 2nd shot exit was the 1st shot's entrance.......the bump on the ham let me know that indeed I can't miss a freakin deer at 8 steps.
Have shot deer w bow that just took a few steps and fell over. One had rib cut in and out, double lung.........twitched and continued to feed (until it was over the hill, and then it fell over).
Hardest run (reaction to shot) was an 8 pt I shot with bow, 19 yds........looking at me. Through a hole in the pine tree I had a spot, so i put an arrow in it. Deer ran with nose on the ground, butt high in the air...........looked like a funny car on the strip. 50 yards crashing in a line.......and then he was down, spun and was dead.
Usually see gun effect and hit location on my deer. Had some good hits with no BT, short BT and even 100 yard BT.
Same loads, angles, sized critter............flip a coin. Dunno what you're gonna get.
My state now allows rifle (cartridge limit spec). So .35 Rem trimmed...........I smack a doe at 50 yards down in the creekbottom. Hit onside shoulder to start bullet upset (on purpose).
Deer flinched and ran at a pretty strong gallop 30 yards and slammed a big fallen log and stretched............dead. Crap. That was just like using a shotgun foster slug.
I expected something more dramatic. Week and a half to gain another data point
Dunno if impact reaction or just how he fell.
I shot him at less than 25 yards with a 12 ga slug, right under the white patch on his throat. From the ground.
It was rainy and I was soaked, saw him a couple hundred out in the CRP and thought "WTH" and decided to see how close I could get. He was working a small pine and when the shot hit there was a big spray of water off him.
Shot another at 8 yards, from the ground (called in). Hot sabot slug entered front edge on onside shoulder, was found under hide of rear opp ham.
That deer jumped way high and trotted 75 yards out and stood. 2nd shot dropped him stone dead. Kinda fooled me for a sec, the 2nd shot exit was the 1st shot's entrance.......the bump on the ham let me know that indeed I can't miss a freakin deer at 8 steps.
Have shot deer w bow that just took a few steps and fell over. One had rib cut in and out, double lung.........twitched and continued to feed (until it was over the hill, and then it fell over).
Hardest run (reaction to shot) was an 8 pt I shot with bow, 19 yds........looking at me. Through a hole in the pine tree I had a spot, so i put an arrow in it. Deer ran with nose on the ground, butt high in the air...........looked like a funny car on the strip. 50 yards crashing in a line.......and then he was down, spun and was dead.
Usually see gun effect and hit location on my deer. Had some good hits with no BT, short BT and even 100 yard BT.
Same loads, angles, sized critter............flip a coin. Dunno what you're gonna get.
My state now allows rifle (cartridge limit spec). So .35 Rem trimmed...........I smack a doe at 50 yards down in the creekbottom. Hit onside shoulder to start bullet upset (on purpose).
Deer flinched and ran at a pretty strong gallop 30 yards and slammed a big fallen log and stretched............dead. Crap. That was just like using a shotgun foster slug.
I expected something more dramatic. Week and a half to gain another data point
This is the last buck I took.
Shot him with a Hornady 75 grain BTHP at about 65-75 yards. He was chasing some does, stopped to look at me for a sec and his body was angled off to my right. Hit him on the shoulder, angled down through his lungs, down the barrel of his torso and out on his right side. Fell as though pole axed with all his legs sticking straight out and then relaxed after about 15 secs.
About as quick as you could ever hope for.
That's the exit.
Makes really good spaghetti and fajitas.
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He was is this sort of position.
Shot him with a Hornady 75 grain BTHP at about 65-75 yards. He was chasing some does, stopped to look at me for a sec and his body was angled off to my right. Hit him on the shoulder, angled down through his lungs, down the barrel of his torso and out on his right side. Fell as though pole axed with all his legs sticking straight out and then relaxed after about 15 secs.
About as quick as you could ever hope for.
That's the exit.
Makes really good spaghetti and fajitas.
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He was is this sort of position.
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Right over the top of the heart through the "spaghetti" junction. There simply is no getting over that.This is the last buck I took.
Shot him with a Hornady 75 grain BTHP at about 65-75 yards. He was chasing some does, stopped to look at me for a sec and his body was angled off to my right. Hit him on the shoulder, angled down through his lungs, down the barrel of his torso and out on his right side. Fell as though pole axed with all his legs sticking straight out and then relaxed after about 15 secs.
About as quick as you could ever hope for.
That's the exit.
Makes really good spaghetti and fajitas.
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He was is this sort of position.
The few deer I've shot usually run off a ways and quit, he was DRT. I'm not much of a deer hunter though, hunted way more hogs.
He was in kind of a funky body position though.
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I read an article that theorized about heart shots. The author's premise was that a heart that is full of blood when hit will generally cause an animal to die much faster than a heart which is in full contraction and "empty" of blood when it was struck. It makes sense but I don't know that there is any definitive way to prove it.
But I can tell you that I generally get one of two reactions to heart shot. They either flop over pretty quick or they do a fairly long death dash. If the heart has just contracted and sent a fresh load of oxygenated blood to the brain I can sure see how an animal has enough O2 left in it's system to do a death run. If the heart is full of bloods when it's hit that freshly oxygenated blood doesn't get delivered and you get the added benefit of hydraulic damage when hitting a heart full of fluid (blood) versus an empty heart which is simply a muscle at that point.
This is purely conjecture but I think there might be some validity to it.
But I can tell you that I generally get one of two reactions to heart shot. They either flop over pretty quick or they do a fairly long death dash. If the heart has just contracted and sent a fresh load of oxygenated blood to the brain I can sure see how an animal has enough O2 left in it's system to do a death run. If the heart is full of bloods when it's hit that freshly oxygenated blood doesn't get delivered and you get the added benefit of hydraulic damage when hitting a heart full of fluid (blood) versus an empty heart which is simply a muscle at that point.
This is purely conjecture but I think there might be some validity to it.
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This was a heart shot buck that spun in a circle and hit the ground dead. I'm guessing from the explosive hydraulic damage that his heart might have been full of fluid when the bullet hit it. This was a 180gr Barnes TSX from a .300 WM @ 509 yards. So the bullet was not going all that fast at the time of impact.
wankerjake
Member
Nice shot!
What a great series of pics! I love that you included his "burger" pic!!!
Panzerschwein
member
Shot a 110# boar the other day with a Mosin carbine. 203 grain soft point, from about 30 yards.
Hit the neck behind the head, blew out an impressive exit wound. The boar instantly hit the dirt, wriggled a bit, then expired. A pretty clean kill methinks, and some fine meat in my freezer.
Hit the neck behind the head, blew out an impressive exit wound. The boar instantly hit the dirt, wriggled a bit, then expired. A pretty clean kill methinks, and some fine meat in my freezer.
Thank you.
There might actually be something to that.
To try to add something to it I'm an EMT by trade and from the anatomy and physiology portions of the course (animals aren't much different from humans) I think you're on to something, but I don't think it's necessarily oxygenation that you're looking for, but adrenaline...epinephrine.
Oxygenated tissue is oxygenated tissue, a 100% o2 sat is a 100% o2 saturation. However introduce fear into the equation with a significant dump of adrenaline and that gives the mammal in question a spike in b/p, heart rate and a much higher pain threshold which gives it that boost needed to outrun danger. To run faster, farther and to ignore pain and still make it.
If I think about it the animals that ran the farthest did seem more alert to danger or knew that 'something was up'. Maybe that triggered an adrenaline dump and even though they suffered what turned out to be a mortal wound, they still made it farther than what would have seemed possible.
Just a theory, don't know if it's worth the five minutes it took me to type that.
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That one's a big guy compared to our puny East TX white tails.
Nice shot.
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entropy
Member
I'll agree with you on that one. The first two deer I shot were both Aorta shots; The first one never knew I was there-he was lazily trailing some does that I let pass by me. He stopped at a perfect 50 yard quartering away shot, so I put the crosshairs right behind the shoulder and- he dropped right over on his side. Never moved. The second one, same rifle (.30-06 742 Carbine) same load (43 gr. IMR 3031 with 165 Partition) but another hunter had pushed him through a swamp, he popped up on the logging road I was walking back to my stand on, stopped broadside to look at me, and I shot for the same spot. He took off like a bat outta hell, ran 75 yards, and tucked himself under a deadfall and died. Took the top of the Aorta off of both of them-two polar opposite reactions.
Like I said to begin with, I'm not much of a deer hunter. Few does and a buck, but I've seen much the same thing on hogs when they're pushed. When they get startled by something, they start to move away as a sounder, that lazy walk becomes that hurried little trot and then after that it turns into a full on run.
If you pop them before they're startled often as not they'll drop right there or maybe make it a few yards, after they're startled and they break into that quick trot they do and they're about to bolt if you shoot them then unless you stuff it in their ear (brain) or break their back (spinal cord) even on a double lung shot they'll often make it 50-75 yards or so.
T.R.
Member
Vast majority of deer sized animals that I've killed have fallen to broadside chest shots. Most either topple or fall after a couple jumps.
TR
TR
vladamiraaron
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Ruger Mini 14, iron sights, with 62 grain Federal Fusion. I keep it under 100 yards and pick only good shots. I almost always aim for the heart/lung area. Last doe I shot on the move at 30ish yards through the right front shoulder broadside. She jerked, winced and tightened up on the side she was hit as if she'd taken a punch, ran for 10 yards, jumped between the strands of a stranded electric horse fence and fell over dead. Right front shoulder broken in two and in shards, heart and lungs were soup. The heart and lungs looking like soup from this round is a common find upon field dressing. Always clean and quick kills.
My grand father shot a buck right through the boiler room a few years back with his 1940 Remington model 81 in 300 savage at a couple hundred yards. That buck turned sideways and ran off into the timber for an eternity. His little long furred lap dog tracked the blood trail for me and I drug it out. The entry and exits were huge! I couldn't make out any organs. How they sometimes run like that I just don't get.
How that doe I shot could run and jump that gracefully with a shoulder in that kind of condition is just crazy (let alone having no lungs or heart).
My grand father shot a buck right through the boiler room a few years back with his 1940 Remington model 81 in 300 savage at a couple hundred yards. That buck turned sideways and ran off into the timber for an eternity. His little long furred lap dog tracked the blood trail for me and I drug it out. The entry and exits were huge! I couldn't make out any organs. How they sometimes run like that I just don't get.
How that doe I shot could run and jump that gracefully with a shoulder in that kind of condition is just crazy (let alone having no lungs or heart).
Arkansas Paul
Member
Shot an average sized doe this season with my muzzleloader. 295 grain Powerbelt from about 150-160 yards.
It hit behind the shoulder but a little higher than normal. It was recovered on the other side of her body, just forward of the hip.
She kicked her back legs straight up in the air and ran for about 30 yards and stopped. Then her legs got unsteady and she started wobbling then fell over.
Total time from shot to falling was only 20 seconds or so. I was hunting a cutover so I saw the entire thing unfold.
It hit behind the shoulder but a little higher than normal. It was recovered on the other side of her body, just forward of the hip.
She kicked her back legs straight up in the air and ran for about 30 yards and stopped. Then her legs got unsteady and she started wobbling then fell over.
Total time from shot to falling was only 20 seconds or so. I was hunting a cutover so I saw the entire thing unfold.
The older I get, the more I believe that a large through hole is far more important than all the gobble gook kinetic energy arguments I have ever read. A big hole through and through which causes a lot of blood loss is absolute death to anything that breathes air and pumps blood. This is the secret that gunwriters promoting small bore high velocity cartridges never reveal: if it bleeds enough, it will die. Blood loss is 100% terminal.
If you get lucky and hit the brain, or the spinal cord, the animal will drop. These are small targets and easily missed. Otherwise, it is going to have to bleed to death to die. The more blood loss that can be induced, the better.
If you get lucky and hit the brain, or the spinal cord, the animal will drop. These are small targets and easily missed. Otherwise, it is going to have to bleed to death to die. The more blood loss that can be induced, the better.
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