Another court case reinforcing police immunity on duty to protect the public....

[CannibalCrowley]

wprebeck

So, the next time you write a number down incorrectly, please take yourself down to the nearest police station, and have them arrest you, 'kay?

I will do so the next time I copy down an incorrect number AND it causes a suspect to be released from jail early. BTW how many military servicemen are at your jail? There must be a good number since you kept referring to some of the workers as "civilians".

 

[wprebeck]

Ooh, is this where I get to post the most current definition of "civilian", and you tell me that you don't care what that particular dictionary says, it's wrong, that's not what "civilian" means, etc, etc, or can we skip all that?


And to answer your question, I had a fellow officer (not a CIVILIAN) standing next to me who is in a Special Forces reserve unit, and just recently returned from hunting Bin Laden through the caves in Afghanistan. Of course, if he's not enough, here's some more for you:
1 ex-Navy
1 currently activated Navy
1 currently reservist Navy
Countless MP's with the Army National Guard. These would include some of my upper command staff, like a Lt.
One of my sgt's is an 0-4 with the Army
Another is an E-something or other with the Army
One of my coworkers in my area is an E-6, and is currently activated at Ft. Knox, training people.
One is getting ready for another 18 month deployment with the Army.
One of my deputy chiefs served in Gulf War I.
Two others are in an artillery unit with the Army
One is a former Marine, then Army, now USAF ANG, and is on active duty, doing 90 day deployments
Another just returned from active duty with the USAF, and is a reservist at the same unit as the above person.
One is a retired Marine/Army guy
Another is a retired Army vet


There are too many to mention here, as we have a staff of about 400 officers, and about 80% of them (just a guess, but it should be cose to that) have had, or are currently in, service with the US military. And you know what, they refer to the civilians as such, and to the rest of us as officers.

 

[Bail Agent]

This is my first post on this board.

Much like wprebeck I would like to ask that The High Road accept me as an expert witness in the field of bail bonds. My qualifications are; I have worked in the bail industry for almost 12 years. I opened the doors to my own bail agency in Feb., 2000. I've written bail all over the state of CA, I've been to Nevada on multiple occasions related to the business, looks like I will be going to Arizona later this year. I've been to Washington, Oregon and Tennessee chasing skips, I caught them all too. With introduction and qualifications out of the way I welcome constructive questions about the industry.

The Police do not determine who is released from jail or how much their bond is set at. That would be the court system. The bail bond system and the bounty hunting industry in the US are a scourge on our justice system. They actively seek to have violent criminals released for money so that they can charge huge interest rates to people that may very well go out and kill someone. They do all of that for money and I for one would call it blood money.

FedDC -

The ignorance and frustration are blinding in this post. The "Bail Schedule" is set, either yearly or every other year, by judges of the county.

The bail system, at least here in CA, work quite well. A person is bailed, for an amount decided upon by judges, with a promise to appear in court until the case is completed. Should the bailed fail to appear in court, for any reason, the bond shall be forfeited and the bail agency is liable for the entire amount of bail. If a person, while out on a felony bond, commits a felony they should be charged, by the District Attorney, with a bail enhancement. The enhancement has a minimum two year prison sentence.

Once the bond is forfeited, here in CA, the agency has 180 days to return the defendant to the custody of the court. In all of the time in the business I have never hired a bounty hunter. I guess I am too cheap to hire someone to do it. I also don't want someone else increasing my liability. This year I lost my first defendant. He ran to mexico and I just had no way of finding him. As a punishment for that I got to pay the county of Alameda $20,984.00. The $984.00 was for interest and penalties. That hurt, that was my money, it came out of my checking account. But that was my agreement with the court.

Wprbeck, I would be very interested in finding out what the Failure to Appear rate is on your OR'd defendants. Here in CA the apprearance rate on bonded cases is in the very high 90%s (www.cbaa.com). On fta's the capture rate is hovering just over 94%. We, bail agencies, have a financial interest in making sure that defendants appear, I am reminded of the almost $21,000.00 I don't have anymore.

FedDC, the high interest rate you refer to is determined by the California Department of Insurance. They decide how much I can charge, not me.

I expect to be attacked because of this post, but like I said before, I welcome constructive questions about the industry.

 

[tcsd1236]

I expect to be attacked because of this post, but like I said before, I welcome constructive questions about the industry.

Pretty much anyone with any actual knowledge of law enforcement or anything related to it can be expected to be attacked here and elsewhere on the net by the know-nothings; its a sad commentary on society.......

 

[mrapathy2000]

I like Bail enforcers. think they do valuable service to the community the cops dont always want to do. nor do I blame either for job. short comings and wrong doings another matter.

ever since a bad introduction to how long 911 responce takes couple years back have gone back to firearms and self defense. good reality check. been doing all sorts of things my parents didnt like. nothing like restricting and forbiding your children of theyre potential.

 

[Sergeant Bob]

As a couple others have said, what if the guy had paid the full $8,000, then got out and killed three people? I guess noone would be faulting the police then?
Was the guy known to be dangerous? (Yes, I clicked the link but it required a subscription). If he was then I would fault the judge for setting the bail too low. If the guy could come up with $3,000, he could probably come up with $8,000 (maybe he was committing the burglary to get money to pay off his bail?).

I can't see how his paying $8,000 instead of $3,000 would have changed his actions after being released. The only thing you could argue is that he wouldn't have been able to come up with the extra $$, but that really has nothing to do with the police.

As for bail bondsmen, nobody likes them until they need them. Thankfully, I never have, but I know an innocent man who was wrongfully accused of a major crime (in which the cops ignored obvious evidence of someone else being responsible) and he would have languished in jail for about 6 months until it was straightened out had it not been for one of those "dirty" bail bondsmen.

Of all the things you could legitimately fault cops for, I think this one is a bit of a stretch (using the info given).

 

[BryanP]

This is the most rabidly anti-police site (other than the idiots out there at places like copwatch) I've ever been to.

This site has some posters who gleefully jump on any chance to make negative statements about the police. They love to throw around the phrase "JBT." This site also has plenty of posters to whom no police officer can do any wrong. There must be more to the story, we don't know all the facts, etc... Both are a vocal and annoying minority.

The majority on this site believe that cops are people who mostly do a difficult job as best as they can and occasionally screw up. Are there cops who have no business carrying a badge? Absolutely. But most of them are decent enough people.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I just love threads like this where the original post and often subsequent posts that describe some sort of horrors of government, in this case the notion that this incident reinforces police immunity on duty to protect the public really turns out to be more about the complainers' ignorance of the law or actual situation. Get over it!

All this discussion over who gets what bail money is completely moot relative to the original posting and the original posting is in error as noted in the follow-up article, it was a court error, NOT police error. The police did no wrong here.

 

[Cool Hand Luke 22:36]

The immunity the Police have from liability for failure to protect is justified.

If they didn't, it's likely that they'd get sued every time someone became a victim of serious crime, and consequently we wouldn't have Police forces.

No municipal government could possibly afford the insurance cost of operating a police force under those conditions.

There are far better ways of sanctioning Police Officers who are negligent in their duties than letting the Tort lawyers bankrupt every local Government.

 

[WYO]

States are free to waive sovereign immunity in its entirety, or to waive it with caps on the amount they will pay. When states do that, the taxpayers foot the bill. Does that make people happy?

 

[Deavis]

The immunity the Police have from liability for failure to protect is justified.

If they didn't, it's likely that they'd get sued every time someone became a victim of serious crime, and consequently we wouldn't have Police forces.

Right, sort of like how doctors performing a dangerous and potentially deadly surgery are exempted from liability if the patient dies right? SOrt of like how an RT sees an accident and stops to give CPR to a dying man on the freeway is exempt from liability if the man dies. Lots of people do dangerous jobs all the time and are held liable.

I think what you meant to say is that police should not be held liable for crimes they could not be expected to prevent due to distance, lack of time, or insufficient information. Afeter all, they aren't super heroes and cannot be everywhere at once!

 

[Bruce H]

This place and the people in it are far from the worst at attacking police officers. Only the most bizare and actually criminal cases ever show up. The kind of cases that will push anybodys hot buttons. Sure there are some idiots here that never know when to shut up, both law enforcement and non law enforcement. The times law enforcement do their regular job is very seldom mentioned. Why talk about people doing their daily jobs? Mostly it is boring.