ByAnyMeans
Member
double post, sorry
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Another suicide with a gun, How can I defend guns now?(serious responces please)
- Thread starter Eric F
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ByAnyMeans
Member
I must agree to give it time. When ready to discuss it explain that the suicide is the action and should be helped through education and understanding, the means to the action is irrelevant. You can use other means as seen in Japan where they have almost no private ownership of firearms but one of the highest suicide rate of developed nations.
Hope all goes well and be patient.
Hope all goes well and be patient.
Let It Be
I've been a gun nut since I was 10 years old, when my dad gave me my first gun, a .22 rifle. I've probably been a gun nut longer than that, if you want to include squirt guns and BB guns.
When I was 16 years old, my 14 year old brother put my dad's shotgun to his head and pulled the trigger. To say our family was traumatized would be an understatement.
I couldn't even look at guns for a long time after that.
After about two years, I started to think a bit more logically and less emotionally. I realized it wasn't the gun that was at fault.
I bought a Ruger Single Six and started plinking again and enjoyed the hell out of it. I didn't see it as an evil object, it was just a thing, but a thing I enjoyed.
Being young, I was able to heal a lot faster and grow up. But my parents were always skittish about guns after that, and they never got over it.
My advice: put your personal pleasure on the back burner. Enjoy your guns in private. Let others come around and let them heal with however much time they need. Don't be pushy. Think about other people's needs.
I've been a gun nut since I was 10 years old, when my dad gave me my first gun, a .22 rifle. I've probably been a gun nut longer than that, if you want to include squirt guns and BB guns.
When I was 16 years old, my 14 year old brother put my dad's shotgun to his head and pulled the trigger. To say our family was traumatized would be an understatement.
I couldn't even look at guns for a long time after that.
After about two years, I started to think a bit more logically and less emotionally. I realized it wasn't the gun that was at fault.
I bought a Ruger Single Six and started plinking again and enjoyed the hell out of it. I didn't see it as an evil object, it was just a thing, but a thing I enjoyed.
Being young, I was able to heal a lot faster and grow up. But my parents were always skittish about guns after that, and they never got over it.
My advice: put your personal pleasure on the back burner. Enjoy your guns in private. Let others come around and let them heal with however much time they need. Don't be pushy. Think about other people's needs.
moooose102
Member
people that kill themselves are mentally ill. the gun is simply the tool. i guess they use guns because they are quick, no suffering while you are strangling, burning, etc. the misconception (IMO) that it is a painless death seems very wrong to me. now, if you wanted a painless death, morphine (heroin) seems to me like the way to go. you would pass out way before you drew your last breath. as for you extended family. you are going to have to let them greive for a while before you try again. otherwise it will result in anger and animosity towards guns. unfortunatly, MANY people blame the gun for the problem (aka, the brady bunch) instead of dealing with the real problem, which is the PERSON using the gun. guns are an inantimate object, and as such, are easy to blame. people can talk back, blame others, etc. but a gun just sits there, not saying a word. i dont know when people will realize this. it is a fact. a gun sitting there, loaded, cocked and ready to fire will not kill anything, or person, until someone picks it up and pulls the trigger! therefor, it is the PERSON that pulls the trigger that kills, not the gun! i wish anti-gun people could get this through their thick skull!
Old Navy
Member
If a friend had smashed his car into a wall at 100 mph to commit suicide, would anybody give up cars?
Alcohol and pain pills, razor blades, poison have been used for suicides for many years. The misconception of a gun as a good suicide tool can be overrated, since a many people who try to use a gun to commit suicide actually fail and result in a state of more suffering and pain and agony. Well, since so many people commit suicides with alcohol, pharmaceutical meds, razors should we no longer use alcohol to sterlize wounds or take medicine to heal our sickness? She woudl stop using pain killers after an operation? Should we not use a knife to cut our food anymore?
I guess it just comes down to, people kill people, not guns. Just think about the Rwandan genocide. Most of the deaths were done by machetes. Look at some of the most horrific slaughters in the world, done by sword, bow , arrow. I think more people have died by sharp blades then by bullets. If anything guns have made war less bloody and more efficient. Where as in olden times people had the most gruesome battles, usually resulting in the death of innocent civilians since they would raid cities and villages and every person would fight anything living or moving.
I guess it just comes down to, people kill people, not guns. Just think about the Rwandan genocide. Most of the deaths were done by machetes. Look at some of the most horrific slaughters in the world, done by sword, bow , arrow. I think more people have died by sharp blades then by bullets. If anything guns have made war less bloody and more efficient. Where as in olden times people had the most gruesome battles, usually resulting in the death of innocent civilians since they would raid cities and villages and every person would fight anything living or moving.
Suicide rate by country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
There seems to be no correlation between prevalence of firearms and suicide rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
There seems to be no correlation between prevalence of firearms and suicide rate.
thornious
Member
I speak from a little experience on this issue. I personally have experienced losses to firearms related suicide wihting my family.
Two main points, the first has been said here many times "let it be with her and her family for now". The following can't be stressed enough right now “Don’t push the issue.”
Second don’t change your lifestyle because of her new found feelings, sure maybe tone it done some, especially if your over the top i.e. constantly talking firearms or related topics
but overall maintain your own pro firearms personality.
Also it may help if you display proper firearm safety whenever handling any firearm and make firearm safety your mantra around her. In time she will see that you are safe and hopefully become more comfortable around them, she may or may never warm up to the idea of shooting again, but she may just end up indifferent to firearms in general, which is understandable.
Just be patient. I hope everything works out.
Two main points, the first has been said here many times "let it be with her and her family for now". The following can't be stressed enough right now “Don’t push the issue.”
Second don’t change your lifestyle because of her new found feelings, sure maybe tone it done some, especially if your over the top i.e. constantly talking firearms or related topics
but overall maintain your own pro firearms personality. Also it may help if you display proper firearm safety whenever handling any firearm and make firearm safety your mantra around her. In time she will see that you are safe and hopefully become more comfortable around them, she may or may never warm up to the idea of shooting again, but she may just end up indifferent to firearms in general, which is understandable.
Just be patient. I hope everything works out.
thornious
Member
Great advice
Cannonball888
Member
Believe me, if guns didn't exist her friend would have found another way.
Would-be suicides are often very determined and persistent people; the argument that if there were no guns no one would commit suicide is specious.
Some years ago, in Washington, DC, a man ran across the street and flung himself at a plate glass window. When it failed to break, he did the same thing twice more until the window broke on his third try. Then he used a piece of the broken glass to cut his wrists; he died at the scene.
Jim
Some years ago, in Washington, DC, a man ran across the street and flung himself at a plate glass window. When it failed to break, he did the same thing twice more until the window broke on his third try. Then he used a piece of the broken glass to cut his wrists; he died at the scene.
Jim
I recognise the gravity of the situation. Condolences.
The simple truth, however, is this:
Guns kill people in the same way that pens misspell words.
I realise this may be viewed as a trite cliche, but the truth is that guns, pens and other tools do not operate in a vacuum (barring space travel).
The simple truth, however, is this:
Guns kill people in the same way that pens misspell words.
I realise this may be viewed as a trite cliche, but the truth is that guns, pens and other tools do not operate in a vacuum (barring space travel).
shiftyer1
Member
SWING 2 HARD hit the nail right on the head. I have first hand experience and hes right
My wifes brother killed himself by drinking anti freeze.
If you want to die,you will find a way.
Handguns can save your life from criminals and save you or a loved one from a life as a handcapped person in a wheelchair from a criminals attack.
No woman is a match for a young male who is over 225 pounds and bent on doing things to her.
A handgun evens that out.
The same goes for when she is protecting her children or her houshold when you are not there.
There are no magic police.
You cannot call the police and have them 'beam over ' to stop a criminal attacking you.
YOU HAVE TO BE ARMED TO STOP THAT ATTACK.
Now,if your wife's family has a history of deep depression and mental instability,you may have to keep what guns you have to yourself and just accept that.
Get your wife some pepper foam or spray for in the house.
The big,easy to use can.
And maybe a portable for her keychain.
But that's pretty extreme.
But,at least,with pepperfoam or spray she has SOMETHING she can respond to an attack with.
If you want to die,you will find a way.
Handguns can save your life from criminals and save you or a loved one from a life as a handcapped person in a wheelchair from a criminals attack.
No woman is a match for a young male who is over 225 pounds and bent on doing things to her.
A handgun evens that out.
The same goes for when she is protecting her children or her houshold when you are not there.
There are no magic police.
You cannot call the police and have them 'beam over ' to stop a criminal attacking you.
YOU HAVE TO BE ARMED TO STOP THAT ATTACK.
Now,if your wife's family has a history of deep depression and mental instability,you may have to keep what guns you have to yourself and just accept that.
Get your wife some pepper foam or spray for in the house.
The big,easy to use can.
And maybe a portable for her keychain.
But that's pretty extreme.
But,at least,with pepperfoam or spray she has SOMETHING she can respond to an attack with.
cliffy
member
Suicide is a serious mental problem
Suicide by drowning has to be preferable to a razor blade, knife, or firearm. When it happens via firearm, it receives lots of press because of the splatter if fatal. If no guns were available, heaven forbid, I'm quite certain drug overdoses, drownings, razor-cuts would increase dramatically. Non-suicidal firearm owners represent the BACKBONE of America, so if some idiot decides to end his miserable life with a firearm, he is NOT typical concerning a self-imposed deathwish. Tying an anchor to one's leg and jumping overboard is an almost painless death compared to shooting one's self in the brain which may not even be fatal, maybe merely causing a vegetative state and still being a burden upon some loved one. Do it RIGHT: Drown cliffy
Suicide by drowning has to be preferable to a razor blade, knife, or firearm. When it happens via firearm, it receives lots of press because of the splatter if fatal. If no guns were available, heaven forbid, I'm quite certain drug overdoses, drownings, razor-cuts would increase dramatically. Non-suicidal firearm owners represent the BACKBONE of America, so if some idiot decides to end his miserable life with a firearm, he is NOT typical concerning a self-imposed deathwish. Tying an anchor to one's leg and jumping overboard is an almost painless death compared to shooting one's self in the brain which may not even be fatal, maybe merely causing a vegetative state and still being a burden upon some loved one. Do it RIGHT: Drown cliffy
My uncle's girlfriend did herself in with a rope. A piece of rope was much more convenient than a firearm and proved more deadly. YOu have 0% to live if you pass out with a rope hanging around your neck in mid air. However, with a firearm its a guessing game if you live or die, unless you use some giant exploding caliber pointed at your face.
Japanese have a special ritual for killing themselves ,called seppuku. If you notice they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. They are one of the most anti-gun countries in the world, if I am correct? Seppuku entails a special honorable ritual where you take a dagger and plung it into a specific part of your body that will lead to instant death. The ritual goes back many years to the days of the shogun and is considerable honorable and a ticket to a better next life. LOL..
Anyhow, most hollywood stars seem to do themselves in with drug overdoses. I hardly ever hear of the liberal lefty, gun hating movie stars shooting themselves. Just read the news and almost always, its a heroine, alcohol, speedball, cocaine, etc overdose.
Japanese have a special ritual for killing themselves ,called seppuku. If you notice they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world. They are one of the most anti-gun countries in the world, if I am correct? Seppuku entails a special honorable ritual where you take a dagger and plung it into a specific part of your body that will lead to instant death. The ritual goes back many years to the days of the shogun and is considerable honorable and a ticket to a better next life. LOL..
Anyhow, most hollywood stars seem to do themselves in with drug overdoses. I hardly ever hear of the liberal lefty, gun hating movie stars shooting themselves. Just read the news and almost always, its a heroine, alcohol, speedball, cocaine, etc overdose.
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