Another Travesty!

[Mustang51]

As I said, I couldn't do this to an otherwise unmolested rifle, but since someone else had, and I had a need for exactly these kind of rifles...why not?

I mounted a Bushnell Elite 10x40 scope on the Persian and am very happy with it.



I've got another Bushnell Elite 10 x 40 and intend to mount it on the Argentine.

 

[TIMC]

SOme people just put too musch stock in leaving old rifles as is. I have very few guns that have not been tweeked in one way or another.

I have a K98 with a reproduction scope, mount and sitting inside the stock is a Timney trigger. You don't think a German sniper in WWII wouldn't have done the same thing to improve it if he could have? You better know he would! Don't worry about it, put some nice glass on it and have some fun!

 

[Mustang51]

I picked up my new Argentine drilled an tapped rifle the other day from my FFL. It is in outstanding condition...both wood and metal and the bore is also outstanding.

 

[tahoe2]

Sweet rifles Mustang !! this is just me being jealous

 

[Mustang51]

Thanks, t2

I've got another Bushnell 10x40 Elite that I'm putting on the Argentine.

 

[tahoe2]

that Argie in 7.65x53 ! I really want one of those, the last one I saw was $650 and I was laid off so it was a no go.

 

[Mustang51]

yep...still in the original 7.65x53

 

[RPRNY]

Love them both!

Here's my Persian carbine, slightly more modified by Bubba's older and wiser cousin Earl:

 

[docsleepy]

I'm glad to see that some people have something better to do with their time than to criticize others for what they did with their own property. I personally wouldn't re-work a very valuable and rare specimen of history (I do re-work a couple of the 40,000,000 Mosin Nagants produced!) but if all one has left to do in this world is waste precious breath and seconds complaining about others who are using their time and heartbeats to actually DO something....that's sad for them. Then again, perhaps that's what they WANT to do with some of their remaining hearbeats, and so have at it! But I won't join you.

 

[TCB in TN]

Today the cheap milsurps are mostly gone, and there is a wide range of cheap production rifles available. The first center fire rifle I bought myself was a sportered 1917-3006. I got it for less than 1/2 what I could have bought a Remington or Ruger production rifle. It had already been drilled and tapped for a scope, but had I bought it w/o that I would have had it done. It shot good, but not great and after a couple of years I let it go and got my Ruger M77 that I thought was so pretty. (Wish I had kept the old 1917, and come to think of it, would like to still have the old M77.... anyway).

Many look back on these guns as collectors pcs, and some are, but many were and are just shooter quality rifles, and personally I would rather see any good old pc of steel being used (not abused).

 

[foghornl]

Darn good looking shootin' irons.

I prefer to keep my Mil-Surps as issued, but as you stated, the dirty deeds had already been done. If those shoot well for you...WAHOOOO! just some added bennies. {LARGE grin}

 

[Mustang51]

Thanks, guys.

Great looking rifle, RPRNY. What length is the barrel now?

I shot my Persian again last month and won the "open category" with it (38/40). I'm sure hoping that my Argentine is as good.

 

[RPRNY]

It's still the original 18" flamethrower barrel. I have been trying slightly faster powders to mitigate the unburned amount creating mini-Hiroshima effects.

 

[Mustang51]

I have an Iranian made M49 with the 18" barrel and the muzzle blast is a thing to behold. Mine has been lightly sporterized...as best I can tell, Bubba only filled in the sling cut out in the butt. Everything else looks original.

 

[Savage99]

While I can appreciate someone wanting to collect old military guns that are still original that's what we do and did to the cheap obsolete guns.

They have no other practical use other than collecting. I read someone shoots them in matches. We do have matches here for the military rifle but they shoot the latest one.

Here is a picture of one from above. The only thing of real quality or a good finish is the mount itself! At least now a good sight could be put on the rifle.

 

[Mustang51]

While I can appreciate someone wanting to collect old military guns that are still original that's what we do and did to the cheap obsolete guns.

They have no other practical use other than collecting. I read someone shoots them in matches. We do have matches here for the military rifle but they shoot the latest one.

Here is a picture of one from above. The only thing of real quality or a good finish is the mount itself! At least now a good sight could be put on the rifle.

I'm afraid I can not agree with much of what you have posted here, 99

Many shooting clubs, mine included, have vintage military rifle matches where the latest rifles are not included. Many clubs also have "open" or "optics" categories for vintage military rifle matches and that is what these rifles are being used for.

As for your "The only thing of real quality or a good finish is the mount itself!" comment...opinions vary as to the quality of old Mauser rifles. Many people believe that Czech and German made Mauser rifles (like these) from the early 20th century were some of the highest quality bolt action rifles ever made.

 

[tahoe2]

agree with Mustang !

I have many old Mausers from various countries, and while some are better than others, a couple are way more accurate than they should be ( pitted barrel, 1" @ 100 yds, iron sights). they are from a time when men crafted them, instead of machines pumping them out. I got nothing against technology, you can get some very fine rifles today. But I still like and prefer "the oldies but goodies".

 

[Mustang51]

I finally got a scope mounted on my Argentine Mauser. I ended up needing some higher rings for the scope that I mounted.

I'm hoping to get to the range next week and shoot it.

 

[Mustang51]

Here are the Mausers in match shooting trim...

 

[Mustang51]

I got to the range for a quick session. I got a chance to fire a few of my rifles, including the scoped Argentine. I didn't have any time to reload for the 7.65 x 53, so I shot 5 Prvi Partizan 174 gr's and 5 Norma 150 gr's at 100 yards off a sandbag front rest. The Argentine liked the Normas pretty well...



Was so-so with the Prvi...



I think I can do better with some reloads.

 

[Ignition Override]

What were called cheap, obsolete guns decades ago, such as Enfields now sell for about $300-400 in good, original condition.
My gun buddies never give a second look (or offer) to those with modifications to metal components.

People are free to continue sporterizing and kill the value all they want to.
Admittedly some had suffered damage during very amateurish work and had nothing to lose by adding some skilled work.

I bought two #5 "Jungles" and four typical #4s in order to admire the classic military styling and use them. This is where the true character and appeal are found.

Mustang51: That's a beautiful classic and excellent shooting.

 

[Mustang51]

Thanks. Override

I also brought the Persian Mauser and had a few 8x57 reloads leftover from the last match. Also at 100 yards...



I think that the Argentine, with a good load, will keep up with the Persian

 

[Manny]

Wearing my coke bottle progressive lense glases the only way I can even begin to shoot many guns to their and my potential is with optical help. As long as the work is done properly I have no issue at all with modifying milsurps for better fit, function and effectiveness. I would agree that rare versions are best left to collectors, but thses rifles tended to be made in mass quantities, so there are usually plenty to go around.

While I'm a huge history buff and love the products of earlier times that doesn't mean they were perfect and with no room for improvement. Especially when those products are used as they were origionally intended and not merely kept for occasional fondeling. The armies and soldiers that used those weapons modified them in their origional time periods with optics and in other ways for better function. To continue to do so now is no problem in my IMHO. I'm a big fan of the sniper type matches that are springing up for these scoped old timers and had I the money I'd be on the prown for a good rifle to set up with a scope to participate my ownself.

As to the OP, those are two beautiful rifles and the optics instal was well done. A successful update IMO. Looks like they shoot pretty good to. The "bubba-izing" made them more not less desirable in my eyes and I bet they're alot of fun to shoot. It's good to see those old war horses given new life.

 

[Mustang51]

Thanks, Manny

I have examples of both these rifles unmolested. But as you say, as we age, it becomes harder and harder to shoot iron sighted rifles accurately.




I've wanted to shoot in the "open" category of our club vintage military match for some time, but refused to drill and tap my rifles. It was a relief to find these after someone had already drilled and tapped them, so I didn't have to feel any guilt. They were also substantially cheaper than the original condition rifles.

Both the Persian and the Argentine drew quite a bit of interest at the range yesterday.

 

[CraigC]

It's a rifle, not a priceless historical artifact. They were sold by the thousands and for cheap. Many of them are still cheap. While collectors may see a valuable rifle to be kept indefinitely in its original form, lots of other folks see them as the basis for a hunting rifle or a full custom. The bottom line is they are the property of their owners to do with as they see fit. My purchase of an old sporterized Mauser last year did not go so well but I would still like to find one either already sporterized, or a nice original to do myself. Like it or not, it's not really any of your business. Personally, I think it's ridiculous to collect a bunch of these rifles and never shoot them but I don't condemn those that do. We all must do what pleases us in this life because we're not here for long.

They are still in their military stocks with handguard, which is unusual for a sporting rifle.

Yet totally serviceable.

The barrels are over 29" long, which doesn't make much sense for a sporting rifle.

I've been hunting with a 33" barreled muzzleloader for 5yrs. One I have ordered is 34" and my next will be a custom as long as they can make it.

The Persian is in 8 x 57 and the Argentine is in 7.65 x 53, neither one of which is a particularly popular sporting cartridge.

The 8x57 is an excellent sporting cartridge and I bought ammo for mine at the local pawn shop. It was easier to get ammo, brass, dies and bullets than for my new .250Savage.

Both of these rifles started out on the expensive end of the military Mauser spectrum...

At one point they were a cheap surplus rifle.

...for not much more than the gunsmithing must have cost.

Let me know where I can find Mausers that will cost no more than it would to drill and tap four holes. I'll buy all I can.