chaim
Member
Some background:
-I am enthusiastic about chances for a decent CCW law in MD thanks to the efforts of many here. It may not happen this year, but I think within a few years out we may actually have a decent CCW law like the rest of the country.
I also spend a lot of time in PA where soon I'll be able to legally carry.
Thus, I am interested in an auto suitable for carry. It probably won't be used often for that as I will likely use a revolver most of the time and until MD goes CCW I will only carry when I'm in PA once or twice a month, but I want a decent auto or two for carry.
-I don't want a S&W style decocker. I like 1911s and I want to keep things simple, so for defensive guns they must either have a 1911 style safety or they must be DAO (or DA w/ decocker only is acceptable).
-I am a big fan of 9mm and .45acp. 9mm is an effective self-defense round or a cheap practice round depending upon your ammo selection, .45acp takes less thought to pick your defensive ammo because it already starts with a bigger hole but is much more expensive to practice with. .40S&W is starting to grow on me again so I won't rule it out (it has basically the same negatives and positives as the .45acp). Thus caliber is basically a "6 of one, half dozen of the other" situation for me so long as it is one of these three (in autos).
-I don't like Glocks very much. I will never buy a Glock.
-I intend to carry IWB, most of the time probably IWB with a tucked dress shirt as the cover.
-I'd like to stay in the $400-550 range as much as possible, but for the right gun I may go over a bit.
So keeping these in mind here is my list, I want your imput (if you add guns not on my list keep in mind the above conditions):
-CZ P01:
Pros- I love CZ, it has CZ quality, it is 25 oz so it is a good carry weight that will also give good control. I know all about the design and how well tested this gun was, it may be the best CZ ever.
Cons- I hate the full length frame and the accessory rail added to the otherwise (near perfect) CZ 75 basic lines. Being a double stack makes for a fairly wide grip for IWB tucked.
-CZ PCR:
Pros- 24oz 9mm. It is a CZ. I've always liked the CZ PCR and would love one, fits my hand and points just about perfectly.
Cons- Not much I can think of. Before the ban ended the 13 round high-caps for the compact CZs were hard to come by, I don't know if that is still the case. The double stack mag makes for a fairly wide grip for IWB tucked.
-CZ RAMI:
Pros- 25oz compact CZ avail in both 9mm and .40S&W. CZ quality.
Cons- I'm not sure if it is even available in MD, I'm not sure if I like it or not.
-CZ 100.
Pros- CZ quality, compact and thin polymer 9mm or .40S&W, only 24 oz. Probably the least expensive gun on my list (this new v. some of the others used and the used gun may be cheaper).
Cons- I'm not a big fan of obviously polymer guns and this one has a long and heavy trigger pull.
-Taurus PT 911 or 940.
Pros- This gun fits my hand and points as well as the PCR. I've wanted this gun longer than I've wanted the PCR. I don't think I've ever heard one negative about this gun from an actual owner. It may be the most underrated gun on the market. Easy to get high-caps now that the ban ended- Taurus is really working to get them out there (15 rounds of 9mm in a fairly compact package is nice). The price is right.
Cons-Only the 9mm is a high-cap, the .40 is a 10 rounder (I think), though this is only a problem if I don't go with the 9mm. Maybe weight, at 28oz it is on the heavy side for a compact. Being a double stack it is wide for IWB tucked.
-A used Taurus PT908.
Pros- See above minus the high-cap as it is an 8 round single stack, compact 9mm.
Cons- None except I can't get it new (it has been discontinued for a few years), and I've never seen it used around here so I'd have to buy online sight unseen (I've only done that with revolvers thus far, though I've never been disappointed).
-Taurus Millenium Pro series.
Pros- Great price! Decent quality (the troubles with the original Millenium series are long over). Overall decent guns, at good prices, and great size and weight for carry. Available in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp.
Cons- Obviously polymer, ugly, heavy DAO trigger.
-Taurus 24/7
Pros- Everyone I've encountered who has one loves it. 17 rounds of 9mm (less in larger calibers). Reliable, accurate, fairly lightweight and narrow (due to the polymer) despite being essentially a full-size gun
Cons- Being full size the grip is a bit long for IWB tucked carry, it is polymer and it is ugly.
-SA XD
Pros- Great gun at a great price. Great selection of size and calibers. Accurate, reliable, I've shot a full-size when they first came out and know I like shooting them
Cons- Ugly, polymer
-Kahr P9 or P40
Pros- Not bad looking for polymer. Very lightweight, reliable and accurate. I have always liked Kahrs.
Cons- The only con for me on this is price
-Kahr PM9
Pros- Can fit in a pocket (around 16oz, and very small), very reliable, accurate, I love Kahrs. I'm probably getting one of these eventually as an occasional pocket carry gun (when a snub won't be there) and it could probably do double duty as a belt gun when not in the pocket.
Cons- The size may make practice less pleasant and accuracy less precise than with the larger guns. Price.
-Kahr K9 or K40.
Pros- Great gun, great looking gun. Accurate, reliable, good DAO trigger, I love these guns.
Cons- Price (since these have been out longer than the P series I may be able to find one used to somewhat alleviate this con), weight for the size is a bit more than it should be.
-3" or 4" 1911. I love 1911s. I have a Charles Daly full-size which has been great.
Pros- Single stack .45, a design I love. Some are quite accurate and reliable. In an alloy they are 24-28oz depending upon brand and exact model/size.
Cons- In my price range I'm only looking at the Daly which is only available in steel (at 32 oz for the 3" barrel it is quite heavy for the size). In alloy (I'd want a Kimber or SA likely) it is going to be a bit more than I can spend and will mean waiting quite a bit longer.
-Hi-Power. I'd either get a used FN or Browning or a new Charles Daly.
Pros- Full-size means better controllability and accuracy. At 32 oz it is pretty light for a full-size gun. It is probably the most narrow double stack available. It is known for accuracy and reliabilty. If I get the Daly the XS sights are pretty much ideal for defensive use. Depending on the brand, with aftermarket mags this can hold up to 17 rounds of 9mm.
Cons- Full-size means harder to conceal. It is 32oz so it is on the heavier side. I haven't checked, I'm not sure the Daly is even available here yet.
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I can't say which way I'm leaning. One day I'll be leaning one way, the next another.
The guns that are on the top of my list most often are the PCR, the PT911, the PT908, getting the PM 9 and having it pull double duty, and the Daly Hi-Power. If I could definately afford an alloy compact 1911 it would probably be the top gun on the list but I can't really afford the alloy guns right now, and the steel guns are just a tad on the heavy side for the size (unless I use my full-size 1911- but then 38oz may be heavy for all day).
Some other possibilities that are a bit less likely- a DAO S&W 3913, 908 or 910/915 (but if it comes as a traditional DA/SA it will be expensive once smithing costs to convert it are added in), a Ruger 345 (fairly small and light, due to the polymer, for a full-size .45), just getting another steel full-size 1911 (heavy), Taurus PT945 (a tad big and heavy at 29 oz, not quite full-size, not quite compact), another CZ 40 (I miss mine- though I sold it for being not quite full-size, not quite compact and thus not quite what I wanted it to be), or maybe giving up on an auto for this role and just getting another revolver (probably another 3" K-frame, maybe a Taurus Tracker in .45LC or .45ACP and having it cut to 3").
I'd love to hear your imput.
-I am enthusiastic about chances for a decent CCW law in MD thanks to the efforts of many here. It may not happen this year, but I think within a few years out we may actually have a decent CCW law like the rest of the country.
I also spend a lot of time in PA where soon I'll be able to legally carry.
Thus, I am interested in an auto suitable for carry. It probably won't be used often for that as I will likely use a revolver most of the time and until MD goes CCW I will only carry when I'm in PA once or twice a month, but I want a decent auto or two for carry.
-I don't want a S&W style decocker. I like 1911s and I want to keep things simple, so for defensive guns they must either have a 1911 style safety or they must be DAO (or DA w/ decocker only is acceptable).
-I am a big fan of 9mm and .45acp. 9mm is an effective self-defense round or a cheap practice round depending upon your ammo selection, .45acp takes less thought to pick your defensive ammo because it already starts with a bigger hole but is much more expensive to practice with. .40S&W is starting to grow on me again so I won't rule it out (it has basically the same negatives and positives as the .45acp). Thus caliber is basically a "6 of one, half dozen of the other" situation for me so long as it is one of these three (in autos).
-I don't like Glocks very much. I will never buy a Glock.
-I intend to carry IWB, most of the time probably IWB with a tucked dress shirt as the cover.
-I'd like to stay in the $400-550 range as much as possible, but for the right gun I may go over a bit.
So keeping these in mind here is my list, I want your imput (if you add guns not on my list keep in mind the above conditions):
-CZ P01:
Pros- I love CZ, it has CZ quality, it is 25 oz so it is a good carry weight that will also give good control. I know all about the design and how well tested this gun was, it may be the best CZ ever.
Cons- I hate the full length frame and the accessory rail added to the otherwise (near perfect) CZ 75 basic lines. Being a double stack makes for a fairly wide grip for IWB tucked.
-CZ PCR:
Pros- 24oz 9mm. It is a CZ. I've always liked the CZ PCR and would love one, fits my hand and points just about perfectly.
Cons- Not much I can think of. Before the ban ended the 13 round high-caps for the compact CZs were hard to come by, I don't know if that is still the case. The double stack mag makes for a fairly wide grip for IWB tucked.
-CZ RAMI:
Pros- 25oz compact CZ avail in both 9mm and .40S&W. CZ quality.
Cons- I'm not sure if it is even available in MD, I'm not sure if I like it or not.
-CZ 100.
Pros- CZ quality, compact and thin polymer 9mm or .40S&W, only 24 oz. Probably the least expensive gun on my list (this new v. some of the others used and the used gun may be cheaper).
Cons- I'm not a big fan of obviously polymer guns and this one has a long and heavy trigger pull.
-Taurus PT 911 or 940.
Pros- This gun fits my hand and points as well as the PCR. I've wanted this gun longer than I've wanted the PCR. I don't think I've ever heard one negative about this gun from an actual owner. It may be the most underrated gun on the market. Easy to get high-caps now that the ban ended- Taurus is really working to get them out there (15 rounds of 9mm in a fairly compact package is nice). The price is right.
Cons-Only the 9mm is a high-cap, the .40 is a 10 rounder (I think), though this is only a problem if I don't go with the 9mm. Maybe weight, at 28oz it is on the heavy side for a compact. Being a double stack it is wide for IWB tucked.
-A used Taurus PT908.
Pros- See above minus the high-cap as it is an 8 round single stack, compact 9mm.
Cons- None except I can't get it new (it has been discontinued for a few years), and I've never seen it used around here so I'd have to buy online sight unseen (I've only done that with revolvers thus far, though I've never been disappointed).
-Taurus Millenium Pro series.
Pros- Great price! Decent quality (the troubles with the original Millenium series are long over). Overall decent guns, at good prices, and great size and weight for carry. Available in 9mm, .40S&W and .45acp.
Cons- Obviously polymer, ugly, heavy DAO trigger.
-Taurus 24/7
Pros- Everyone I've encountered who has one loves it. 17 rounds of 9mm (less in larger calibers). Reliable, accurate, fairly lightweight and narrow (due to the polymer) despite being essentially a full-size gun
Cons- Being full size the grip is a bit long for IWB tucked carry, it is polymer and it is ugly.
-SA XD
Pros- Great gun at a great price. Great selection of size and calibers. Accurate, reliable, I've shot a full-size when they first came out and know I like shooting them
Cons- Ugly, polymer
-Kahr P9 or P40
Pros- Not bad looking for polymer. Very lightweight, reliable and accurate. I have always liked Kahrs.
Cons- The only con for me on this is price
-Kahr PM9
Pros- Can fit in a pocket (around 16oz, and very small), very reliable, accurate, I love Kahrs. I'm probably getting one of these eventually as an occasional pocket carry gun (when a snub won't be there) and it could probably do double duty as a belt gun when not in the pocket.
Cons- The size may make practice less pleasant and accuracy less precise than with the larger guns. Price.
-Kahr K9 or K40.
Pros- Great gun, great looking gun. Accurate, reliable, good DAO trigger, I love these guns.
Cons- Price (since these have been out longer than the P series I may be able to find one used to somewhat alleviate this con), weight for the size is a bit more than it should be.
-3" or 4" 1911. I love 1911s. I have a Charles Daly full-size which has been great.
Pros- Single stack .45, a design I love. Some are quite accurate and reliable. In an alloy they are 24-28oz depending upon brand and exact model/size.
Cons- In my price range I'm only looking at the Daly which is only available in steel (at 32 oz for the 3" barrel it is quite heavy for the size). In alloy (I'd want a Kimber or SA likely) it is going to be a bit more than I can spend and will mean waiting quite a bit longer.
-Hi-Power. I'd either get a used FN or Browning or a new Charles Daly.
Pros- Full-size means better controllability and accuracy. At 32 oz it is pretty light for a full-size gun. It is probably the most narrow double stack available. It is known for accuracy and reliabilty. If I get the Daly the XS sights are pretty much ideal for defensive use. Depending on the brand, with aftermarket mags this can hold up to 17 rounds of 9mm.
Cons- Full-size means harder to conceal. It is 32oz so it is on the heavier side. I haven't checked, I'm not sure the Daly is even available here yet.
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I can't say which way I'm leaning. One day I'll be leaning one way, the next another.
The guns that are on the top of my list most often are the PCR, the PT911, the PT908, getting the PM 9 and having it pull double duty, and the Daly Hi-Power. If I could definately afford an alloy compact 1911 it would probably be the top gun on the list but I can't really afford the alloy guns right now, and the steel guns are just a tad on the heavy side for the size (unless I use my full-size 1911- but then 38oz may be heavy for all day).
Some other possibilities that are a bit less likely- a DAO S&W 3913, 908 or 910/915 (but if it comes as a traditional DA/SA it will be expensive once smithing costs to convert it are added in), a Ruger 345 (fairly small and light, due to the polymer, for a full-size .45), just getting another steel full-size 1911 (heavy), Taurus PT945 (a tad big and heavy at 29 oz, not quite full-size, not quite compact), another CZ 40 (I miss mine- though I sold it for being not quite full-size, not quite compact and thus not quite what I wanted it to be), or maybe giving up on an auto for this role and just getting another revolver (probably another 3" K-frame, maybe a Taurus Tracker in .45LC or .45ACP and having it cut to 3").
I'd love to hear your imput.