Anti NRA editorial by retired cop,FL

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gunsmith

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They never print my letters :-(
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040503/OPINION/405030649/1029
Legislature fails to bite the bullet


Once again, the Florida Legislature proves it is the best that money can buy. I'm referring to the gun-range bill.

I hope I understand this correctly. The Department of Environmental Protection is being prevented from protecting the environment. This is the same agency that is charged with keeping our drinking water clean and the air we breath free of pollutants.

The National Rifle Association, through its paranoid vision, sees the protection of our environment, as it relates to gun ranges, as some attempt at gun regulation. I wish someone could explain that one. The NRA lobbyist, Marion Hammer, is quoted by you as saying that regulators had been "harassing" gun ranges. You then say only one> lawsuit has been filed by the DEP. Sounds like major harassment to me.

Our legislators, through their infinite wisdom (and at the direction of the NRA), don't see any correlation between the lead from bullets going into the ground and then working its way into the water we drink.

Before anybody labels me an anti-gun nut, let me say I carried a gun for 25 years in law enforcement. My department had an outdoor range and, after years of use, had to clean up the lead. It's just common sense. The water table where I worked is a lot deeper than it is here, yet they were still concerned.

The protection for ranges is immediate and they can keep on adding lead until 2006, at which time they have to "try to follow the best management practice."

Once again, the legislators come through for their lobbyists.

Larry Basta

Venice
 
Before anybody labels me an anti-gun nut, let me say I carried a gun for 25 years in law enforcement.


This is an increasingly common tactic of the antis. They find someone to write an article who says "I was a member of the NRA for 20 years" or "I am former (military/law enforcement) " which is then followed up by their soundbytes of "increasingly militant NRA leadership", "paranoid membership", or "a leadership out of step with their members".

They have lost the argument based on their interpretation of the truth so they are now resorting to fifth column tactics to undermine the pro-gunners.
 
This is an increasingly common tactic of the antis. They find someone to write an article who says "I was a member of the NRA for 20 years" or "I am former (military/law enforcement) " which is then followed up by their soundbytes of "increasingly militant NRA leadership", "paranoid membership", or "a leadership out of step with their members".

As a former HCI and VPC member who left those organizations when their rampant dishonesty, corruption, graft and various illegal activities involving drug-running, white slavery rings, and midget wrestling became too blatant to ignore, I agree with you 100% :D
 
My understanding of lead bullets and shot, even in the density likely to be found at shootinhg ranges, is that they're relatively stable/inert in and on the ground and contribute little or no Pb to groundwater. Anybody know the science involved?

I'm as environmentally conscious as anybody, but this seems like a red herring to me. It's simply cover for an anti-RKBA outlook.

TC
TFL Survivor
 
Last time I looked lead didn't dissolve in water... I'll drop a cast bullet into a glass of water and let you know when the buullet disappears.
 
Yeah really . . . its powdered lead that is ingested that is the problem. Never heard of dissolved lead in water . . . . although there was an issue with lead pipes and lead solder at one point so maybe there is something there.

However, big difference between your water sitting IN LEAD all night and a 125 grain bullet sitting on top of the soil.

I'd be interested in the science as well . . .
 
I live in the same town as Larry Basta, the letter writer.
The local, county-owned and operated range here (Knights Trail) does clean its backstops and the lead is recycled. :neener:
 
A very real problem and one we SHOULD be resolving on our own with minimal gov't mandatory regulations if we're wise. Unleaded gasoline, non-lead based paint, steel/bismuth shot, etc due to gov't regulations. Lead is right up there with Mercury in terms of toxicity. Don't ingest it or inhale it if possible. Bad for the brain.
I'd opine that indoor ranges would be worse than outdoor and breathing fumes worse than lead sitting in or on the ground where its found naturally anyway... but some effort on the part of shooters/hunters ala Pittman Robertson Act would go a long way for positive effect both politically and in real life. Also could become another new(er) industry where money could be exchanged in our economy... or we could do nothing and await Federal Regulation and/or shutdown of ranges by decree and watch HazMat crews work over our Ranges on TV news nationwide... wouldn't a certain group or two love to see just that?
Either we do it or they do it. Choose wisely.
The following link makes no mention of shooting sports, so I chose it for inclusion, being apolitical on this issue... good information in a general sense.

http://www.wri.org/wr-98-99/metals.htm
(from the link)
Lead
Aside from smoke, lead is probably the oldest human-made atmospheric and occupational toxin, dating back at least 8,000 years to the first lead-smelting furnaces [179]. Today, lead poisoning remains the single most significant preventable disease associated with an environmental and occupational toxin [180].

The risks of lead exposure vary greatly depending upon where one lives. In Bangkok, Mexico City, and Jakarta, exposure largely stems from automotive exhausts; however, in inner-city Chicago and Washington, D.C., exposure is mostly associated with lead in house paint [181]. Generally, human exposure to lead comes from the following main sources: using leaded gasoline; using lead-based paint; having lead pipes in water supply systems; and exposure to industrial sources from processes such as lead mining, smelting, and coal combustion. Additional sources of lead include soldered seams in food cans, ceramic glazes, batteries, and cosmetics [182].

Lead is particularly toxic to the brain, kidneys, reproductive system, and cardiovascular system. Exposures can cause impairments in intellectual functioning, kidney damage, infertility, miscarriage, and hypertension [183]. Lead is a special hazard for young children. Several studies have shown that lead exposures can significantly reduce the IQ of school-aged children; some estimates suggest that every 10-microgram-per-deciliter increase in lead levels in the blood is associated with a 1- to 5-point decrease in the IQ of exposed children [184]. Lead exposures have also been associated with aggressive behavior, delinquency, and attention disorders in boys between the ages of 7 and 11 [185]. In adults, lead exposure has been related to increased blood pressure and hypertension, conditions known to increase the risk of cardiovascular disease.

Unlike most chemicals for which health impacts of low-level doses are still uncertain, exposure to lead, even at very low levels, is highly toxic [186]. Although 10 micrograms of lead per 1 deciliter of blood is generally used as the level above which health impacts are known to be substantial, scientists have not yet identified a level below which no adverse effects of lead occur [187] [188]. Several studies have found detectable learning problems in children whose blood lead levels are as low as 5 to 10 micrograms per deciliter [189].

Exposures to unhealthy levels of lead remain common throughout both developed and developing countries. (See Lead Pollution Poses a Special Hazard to Children.) Among urban children in developing countries, the majority of children younger than 2 years of age have average blood lead levels greater than 10 micrograms per deciliter, estimates suggest [190]. A review of 17 studies from different parts of China found that between 65 and 99.5 percent of children living in industrial and heavy traffic areas had blood lead levels above 10 micrograms per deciliter. Even outside of those high-risk areas, as many as 50 percent of China's children had unacceptably high blood lead levels [191]. Even in Africa, despite comparatively low levels of industrialization and car usage, lead exposure is a serious problem. In Nigeria, for instance, it is estimated that 15 to 30 percent of the children in urban areas have blood lead levels greater than 25 micrograms per deciliter [192].


Other Sources
For some populations, other sources of lead may be more important than gasoline. The most acute and even fatal lead poisoning cases are associated with lead mining and processing. In a 1992 study of the Baia Mare (Big Mine), Romania, lead smelter workers had mean blood lead levels of 77.4 micrograms per deciliter. In children living near the lead smelter, mean blood lead levels of 63.3 micrograms per deciliter were measured [209].

Battery recycling is also an important source of lead exposures. On a global scale, 63 percent of all processed lead is used in the manufacturing of batteries [210]. In Mexico, the Caribbean, and India, family-based industries use open furnaces in their backyards to recover lead from batteries by crude smelting. These cottage industries can result in extremely high lead exposures for the whole family. In Jamaica, children living near backyard smelter sites had mean blood lead levels nearly three times those of children from communities with no backyard smelting activities, according to a recent study [211]. In 1991, an outbreak of lead poisoning occurred in Trinidad and Tobago where the soil was contaminated by wastes from battery recycling. Blood lead concentrations in children living in this area varied between 17 and 235 micrograms per deciliter, with an average of 72.1 micrograms per deciliter [212].

Lead-glazed pottery and lead pigments in children's toys and pencils are other routes of exposure [213]. Approximately 30 percent of the population in Mexico uses glazed pottery regularly, placing nearly 24 million people at risk of exposure to lead from this single source [214]. Lead solder in aluminum cans can also pose significant risks; in Honduras, for instance, studies have shown that lead residues in canned food range from 0.13 to 14.8 milligrams per kilogram, far above WHO guidelines [215].

In the United States, despite much progress in reducing mean blood lead levels and eliminating lead from gasoline, lead poisoning remains a major health hazard for children under the age of 6. Approximately 1.7 million children in the United States have blood lead levels that exceed the recommended level of 10 micrograms per deciliter [216], with the highest average blood lead levels found among poor, urban, African-American, and Hispanic children [217]. (See Lead Poisoning Threatens Many U.S. Children.) Lead-based paint is a major exposure route. Although lead has been banned from residential paint since 1978, about three quarters of all housing units built before 1980 contain some lead-based paint [218]. Because lead-based paint is still used throughout Latin America and the Caribbean, this threatens to become a major route of exposure in those countries as well [219].
 
Before anybody labels me an anti-gun nut, let me say I carried a gun for 25 years in law enforcement.

Right. And we all know how much THAT credential is worth in terms of firearms knowledge and skill...:rolleyes:

The worst firearms handling I've ever seen in my life has been by LEOs who should have known better. Read this link for a very recent example.
 
"A very real problem and one we SHOULD be resolving on our own with minimal gov't mandatory regulations if we're wise."

The problem seems to be public-image-related, rather than a real health risk. Even the web site you refer to doesn't mention firearms as a significant source of lead pollution.

Tim
 
The problem seems to be public-image-related, rather than a real health risk. Even the web site you refer to doesn't mention firearms as a significant source of lead pollution.
Exactly. Article is circa 98-99 or so and WE know that it's not a major health risk, but it IS now on certain group's radar. Better to steal their thunder than have them successfully regulate on State and Federal levels, methinks.
For pete's sake, the Fed's required the local Holsum Bread bakery in Las Vegas to put superscrubbers on their roof exhaust system due to carcinogens found in the scented exhaust (no more fresh bread smell at Charleston and I-15)... in fact, Holsum up and relocated said bakery(possibly for other reasons).
My sister works for the EPA in Kansas City (very anti) and feels it is her duty to rid the world of any industrial evils that cause harm to the public safety and welfare... a noble calling I reckon if we're talking oil spills and PCB stuff leaking around. Get her and a squad of her buddies nationwide on a jag and look out shooting range.

You see, it might save ONE CHILD'S LIFE.

Let's be the ones to save that kid, wherever he or she may be found. :D

Or Not. :rolleyes:
 
This whole thing started, in Florida at least, when antigun activists tried to shut down firing ranges. The activists used lead pollution, noise pollution, safety, rezoning, the ozone layer - you name it - to attempt to force the closing of ranges. Similar to the tort reform to product gunmakers from junk lawsuits, this bill is to protect ranges from closure for frivolous reasons. Range closing is just another tactic of the antis. This retired cop is obviously just another anti.
 
I live in an area of Missouri that is known as the Lead Belt. Lead was mined in this area for well over 100 years and there are many abandoned mines in the area many of which water is pumped from for local water supply. The EPA and the State Department of Natural Resources have aprover this water for human consumption. Why does that lead cause less of a danger than lead from firearms. Can you say stupidity?
 
Certain types of asbestos are dangerous. So the EPA response was to attack, ban and remove every form of asbestos. Then the reality broke out and we determined that not all asbestos is dangerous. Then they learn the best thing to do is not remove it but just seal it in situ. More is spread around by trying to remove it than leaving well enough alone.

Lead on a firing range is not a problem to the water supply. What will be stirred by by messing around with it.

Bad science will be used to justify anti-gun actions which the legislature will not enact.

Where have we heard of that tactic before.
 
As far as shooting ranges go, it is those of us who shoot lead bullets that stand to suffer the worse possible effects of lead poisoning. Well, the shooters and those who work at the range.

Of course, I am assuming that inert lead bullets in a burm or indoors pose very little risk and are probably relatively easy to clean up. I'm also assuming that for every lead bullet fired, there is some dust or gas created in which lead will be present and the shooter him or herself is the most likey to ingest the particulates by inhaling them.

A lot of assumptions, I know.

I have seen some studies recently (because of the mourning dove hunting issue here in Michigan) which indicate that areas frequented by bird hunters have relatively large amounts of lead shot on the ground. Theoretically, the anti-mourning-dove-hunt people say that birds and other animals mistake these lead shots for food and ingest them. I did not find any studies measuring the amount of lead in the blood of birds and animals in these areas however. It could be that these creatures are smarter than they give them credit.

Recently, there was an article in a local paper. The author was very anti-mourning-dove-hunt. I did a bit of research (primarily through Michigan United Conservation Clubs) and I found counter arguements to almost every "point" the author made. However, I could not find enough information to refute the author's stance concerning lead shot. Such data may be out there, but if it is, I did not find it in the time I spent looking up the various information.

I'm inclined at this point to agree with Baba Louie.

But what are the best alternatives to lead bullets and shot? Are there any? I know there are various jacketed bullets and I believe lead shot is not allowed to hunt waterfoul already. Why is lead more desired as a bullet or shot? Because it is more dense? The way it deforms upon impact? Cost?

Sorry for rambling, but I think this issue deserves some attention.

editted to add: I wonder what the exposure rate is for those who manufacture lead bullets and shot?
 
I just found this article.

Consider the source.

But lead ammunition for big game remains legal, and it continues to assault creatures beyond its intended targets. More than a third of the golden eagles examined for a study published in Condor, a scientific journal, showed exposure to lead; 3 percent of the birds had lead at acute or chronic levels. At the University of Minnesota, Patrick Redig, a professor of veterinary sciences and director of the raptor center, treats more than 100 bald eagles a year for lead poisoning. The data he has kept on sick birds since 1980 show a big jump in lead poisonings from the second week of November into December—deer-hunting season in Minnesota.
 
The biggest problem to developing lead-free alternatives are the federal regulations against making ammunition out of other materials that might be more rigid and therefore "armor piercing."

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
 
Being a retired cop makes him an expert

I'm not bagging on cops here. My brother is one.
I worked under a retired cop for seven years. The guy was a major loser. Since he still worked in the same community as the Department he retired from I tracked down a few guys that had the pleasure of working with him during his time at SCPD. Turns out he was only on the force for some three years before he got out on some kind of cheesy medical disability(Word I got was he was such an ??????? they gave him what he wanted to get rid of him). He then went ot Nevada Highway patrol for a further 6 years before he had a snowblower accident that removed a finger tip. Another disability, not to mention a product liability suit against the manufacturer, and he came back to our hometown. See where this is going? He finally left his position where we worked when he broke a chair and injured his back while on duty. I don't know what he got from our employer or the state, but I know he was going after the chairmaker in a liablitiy suit.
Through it all he proudly displayed a license plate frame that said "Retired SCPD" and his Department issue ball cap placed in the back window of his Camero. This guy might be just what HCI is looking for. A useless, criminal puke that will say anything if he sniffs money in it.
 
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