Antipiracy SHTF for a fisherman?

[statelineblues]

Of course, not ALL piracy is successful…

16.01.2008: 1345 LT: Posn: 16:58.17N - 082:24.26E, Kakinada OPL, India. Pirates in a small craft came alongside a tug, underway, towing a barge. They stole ship's stores. Alert crew raised alarm, crew mustered and took back the stolen stores and pushed the pirates back to their craft. The pirates boarded the barge and left after 20 minutes. Local agent informed

02.10.2008: 23.05 LT: Callao anchorage No.12 Peru Five masked robbers attempted to board a container ship at anchor via the anchor chain. Alert crew used fire hoses and flashlights to scare off the robbers.

22.04.2008: FUGRO GAUSS: 0430 LT: Mumbai anchorage, India. Four robbers in a motor boat attempted to board a research vessel at anchor. Attempt failed due to strict anti piracy watch.

28.06.2008: 2145 UTC: Takoradi Anchorage, Ghana. One robber, armed with a long knife, attempted to climb onboard a bulk carrier at anchor via the anchor chain. Alert duty watchman saw the robber and informed the duty officer who raised the alarm. On hearing the alarm, the robber jumped into the sea and escaped with two other accomplices waiting in a boat.

13.11.2008: 1245 UTC: Posn: 04:51.4S – 044:54.1E, Somalia. Pirates armed with automatic weapons and RPG chased and fired upon a container ship underway. Because of the firing, fire broke out in the third officers’ cabin. The vessel increased speed and made evasive manoeuvres. The pirate boat came alongside on port side. Pirates tried to embark on board but were unsuccessful. Later they aborted. Vessel continued to her destination port

 

[SSN Vet]

The small arms locker on our ship had the following...

M14 rifles (engage at range)

12ga short barreled folding stock Remmington shotguns (repell boarders that get into the ship)

Gov't 1911 .45 ACP pistols (top side sentry to controll access in a secure port and Duty Officer in foreign ports)

 

[Telumehtar]

Why would they want a fishing vessel? Who would pay any kind of ransom for it? What kind of commercial fishing is done off of East Africa?

I'm taking that one quote as it is the shortest version of the general attitude of misunderstanding that seems to be rampant in this thread.

Now don't get me wrong, the pirates in what they are doing are in no way heroes, good guys or even fully justified in the actions they are taking in my opinion. However the root cause of WHY they are doing it, is in response to a number of wrongs done to them, and their country. And it starts with Fishing Boats, and has now grown to Oil Tankers.

With governmental upheaval in Somalia and the inability of that country to project it's force into it's territorial waters to enforce it's sovreign borders, fishing rights, and trade lane rights, other governments have been turning a blind eye to the businesses within their own jurisdiction who have been taking advantage of this power vacuum. At first it started with trade route taking a short cut through their waters to shave off precious days or hours of travel time. A practice mind you, that if it were done in American waters would be met with the Coast Guard policing that boat.

After the realization that Somalia could not police their waters, it then graduated from trade lane incursions to outright theft of territorial fisheries. At first it was smaller boats from neighboring countries, but it slowly grew to the point where Japanese industrial tuna haulers(i.e. Super Sized Fishing Boats) were massively depleting the natural resources of the Somali coastline without government approval(mainly because there was no government to get approval from). The UN turned a blind eye to this practice, along with many of the nations involved in such a practice(which btw just happen to be many of our own allies like Japan, Saudi Arabia, Italy, or major trading partners like China).

The fishermen of Somalia have essentially been out competed from their livelyhoods, with no stable government to turn to for redress, and so began the seeds of piracy. Unable to feed their families, the first incidents of fishermen turned pirates began to appear in earnest, and low and behold they have perfected their new trade, and taking on ever larger targets.

What the American Press won't cover, and what is being swept under the rug due to corporate interests is the fact that the Somalis are actually fighting back, not starting a fight.

Like I said earlier, I don't condone what they are doing, nor would I expect the militaries of the world to just sit back and let them run rampant, but unless the root cause is addressed, and Somali territorial waters are respected, then we will continue to see this behavior. And for everyone wanting to beat up on the pirates, consider that essentially, they are the revolutionaries fighting against what they see as a tyranical incursion of foreign powers onto their home waters.

There are a lot of people who like to talk a big game about how they'll revolt against the goverment if the US ever gets too uppity and decides to take away their liberties, but these fellows in Somalia actually are AT THE BREAKING POINT where armed revolt is now the method by which they must pursue change. I'm not saying that revolution should never be pursued, but before talking too lightly about it, take a look at Somalia, because in the modern world, that is what a country thrown in the throes of Revolution would look like. And before passing judgement on backward third world fishermen, consider why it is that for decades, fishermen were fishermen, and in the course of 15 years the new trade is piracy. Something fundamentally changed over there to make fishing(a safe, peaceful and decent living) become non-viable.

 

[gotime242]

Id say a couple good saiga's in 7.62

 

[SSN Vet]

USS Cole were in a 2-man zodiac

nope....

it was a "garbage service boat" with a shaped charge.

an international court ruled that Somolia had assisted Al Quaida and was responsible

 

[Zoogster]

these fellows in Somalia actually are AT THE BREAKING POINT where armed revolt is now the method by which they must pursue change. I'm not saying that revolution should never be pursued, but before talking too lightly about it, take a look at Somalia, because in the modern world, that is what a country thrown in the throes of Revolution would look like.

Do keep in mind however that Government has come to power, but it is government opposed by foriegn leaders, and is therefore not recognized.
The Islamic Courts took control of most of the nation, and was establishing law and order. The Western backed government, the government Europe (and the US) wants to see in power barely held any territory in the North. Yet unless it is the Transitional Federal Government in control the international community will not recognize thier sovereignty.
Lots of money is pumped into the pro western interests government, as well as into places like Ethiopia to keep a conflict ongoing until the desired government is in power.

So the nation is more at war due to foreign powers. The Islamic Courts Union would have ruled the nation already and established law and order if not for foriegn meddling. The Islamic Courts Union though is very much like the Taliban, believing strongly in strict Sharia law. So many foreign nations would rather keep Somalia in perpetual conflict than allow the ICU to be recognized as the sovereign power and have to deal with them on an international level.

Foreign powers will not allow just any government to come to power in Somalia. A powerful Somali government would control the Gulf of Aden. A route that a lot of oil passes through.
If you understand actual world politics and power struggles it makes a lot more sense. There is a reason tiny nations like Djibouti are created, rather than just leaving them a part of a larger nation like Somalia. The tiny nation can be coerced and forced to abide by international controls. Very important since Djibouti is located on the narrowest gap in land between the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea. However in more modern times the entire coastline "needs" to be controlled in light of modern vessels, technology etc So only the right Somali government will be allowed to exist. Until that "right" government controls most of the nation, the world will pretend no government exists, and will actively work to destabilize any other government.

 

[Telumehtar]

Do keep in mind however that Government has come to power, but it is government opposed by foriegn leaders, and is therefore not recognized.
The Islamic Courts took control of most of the nation, and was establishing law and order. The Western back government, the government Europe wants to see in power barely held any territory in the North. Yet unless it is the Transitional Federal Government in control the international community will not recognize thier sovereignty.
Lots of money is pumped into the pro western interests government, as well as into places like Ethiopia to keep a conflict ongoing until the desired government is in power.

Oh granted, there is a "government" but even the dominant faction is incapable at this time of force projection into it's territorial waters, let alone even all the land it claims. If the Islamic Government could project force in this manner, then recognition of that government by western powers becomes moot. When a Somali Naval vessel pulls up to a foreign commercial ship and demands to execute a search, it matters little at that point whether that ship's nation recognizes the Islamic government or not. Worse, if the ship is confiscated, that government will have to deal with the Islamic navy in order to secure it's release.

 

[DRZinn]

these fellows in Somalia actually are AT THE BREAKING POINT where armed revolt is now the method by which they must pursue change.

Oh, please. Armed revolt means taking control of your country from another regime. Boarding and seizing ships in international waters is not revolt, it is theft.

 

[rcmodel]

that an RPG (or some other fairly small weapon) could potentially put a hole in the hull of a commercial vessel.
Does anyone know if that makes sense?

RPG's were designed in the first place to shoot holes in tank armor.

They use a shaped charge HEAT round, and will burn a hole through 30 - 60 CM of armor plate.
That's about 1 to 2 foot of armor plate in plain English!

So, the relatively soft & thin steel plate on a ships hull & superstructure probably wouldn't be much of a challenge for them.

rcmodel

 

[TAB]

Most acts of piracy are done with small boats, So I would want something in 308 or bigger and AP ammo. A few good shots will disable them.( also remember you boat is a pretty damn big weapon.) Once on board you want something that has little chance of going thru bulk heads and coming back at you. I would think a pump shot gun with buck shot would be your best choice.

 

[Telumehtar]

Oh, please. Armed revolt means taking control of your country from another regime. Boarding and seizing ships in international waters is not revolt, it is theft.

Umm, have you NOT been paying attention to what has been happening in that country for the last 20 years? Piracy is just one front of that country's civil war, and more specifically, piracy is the answer for fishermen who have had their careers and method of providing stolen from them by commericial fishing, dumping, and trade incursions.

It is a revolt, beyond the factional infighting of that country it is a revolt against western influence and power grabbing.

If you want schooled in the matter I suggest you take a look at:

To turn the tide on piracy in Somalia, bring justice to its fisheries

or Is Toxic Waste Behind Somali Piracy ?, specifically about the part concerning the containers washing up during the tsunami.

or if sources supporting my argument are too biased for you, how about the opposite with a little critical thought applied:

Spain urges international force to combat Somali piracy

In which Spain begs for international Armed intervention to protect it's fishing fleets while in Somalian waters. Hey... wait a sec... What the hell is Spain fishing in waters it doesn't have permission for? Oh that's right, Spain is STEALING Somali fisheries.

If you are going to make snap judgements about a people based on the spoon fed bull crap of the Western Media alone, then I suggest you might broaden your horizons a bit, read the foreign press(everything from friendly British papers to good old hostile Alijazeera and anything in between such as the Indian Times, the Ukrainian papers, the Isreali press) before making an opinion. Usually the truth is found by reading ALL sides of the propaganda put forth by all papers, and in general you will find that there are some pretty compelling reasons why America and our western partners are not well liked over seas. There's more reason to their hatred than simple religious differences. They truly beleive they have been wronged, and deserve justice, and in some cases, I have to agree with them.

 

[statelineblues]

Let's also remember that it's not just the Somali/Yemen area - piracy hotspots exist around India, Indonesia(one of the worst), the coast of western Africa, Phillipines, eastern and western coasts of South America, and southern China. And many of those areas have recognized, functioning governments.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I would want a nice, scoped bolt-action rifle in 308 or 30-06. The pirates will likely be armed with AK's, so I would want something that I can engage them with at double the distance.
For a major ocean vessel, I would just want a pair of turret mounted 20mm Vulcan's in a 6-barreled Gatling configuration.

 

[jahwarrior]

I also need to be able to discreetly stow this weapon for reasons having to do with laws in gun-unfriendly places or police

so, you want to know how to skirt, or even break the law?

did no one else catch this, or think this was odd for a first post?

we don't advise, condone or promote illegal behavior here.

 

[mljdeckard]

Somalis in small boats attacking cruise liners in coastal waters has nothing to do with defending sovereignity or helping revolution. I suppose it's lucky for them that the captains of those ships don't want to give the tourists a lesson in maritime defense law.

I find it difficult to swallow any arguments about territorial waters, when the nation itself can't even decide who's in charge. These pirates don't care about the environment, maritime law, or protecting Somali territory. They want to steal things. The perfect prize for the thug du jour might be say, a freighter full of Soviet tanks?

 

[Telumehtar]

I find it difficult to swallow any arguments about territorial waters, when the nation itself can't even decide who's in charge.

The point is, that since the warring factions are incapable of setting laws in regards to their territorial waters, and more over are incapable of projecting force into them, that other nations should respect those boundries and not enter them at all.

The fact that other nations and more importantly corporations are capitalizing on this weakness does not make it right. In otherwords this is a situation of Two wrongs making another wrong. If the corporate ships were being hijacked outside of territorial waters then the pirates are squarely in the wrong. But when the pirates hijack the boats in territorial waters you could make the argument that they are in fact acting as a defacto militia of sovreign waters.

Don't want hijacked, and more importantly want legitimacy to excercise "maritime law" then stay out of their waters. In the meantime, I don't have much sympathy for any boat that strays into their waters as essentially you've entered their domain and put yourself at their mercy.

 

[mljdeckard]

Nope. Still not sympathetic. They're pirates, not patriots.

 

[shdwfx]

we don't advise, condone or promote illegal behavior here.

My choice would be to avoid ports that infringe basic human rights altogether.

But, if that is not an option...

It's a matter of risk management.

On one hand, hiding arms from port authorities will land you in jail if caught.
On the other hand, if caught without arms during a pirate attack, you will get killed.

Lovely choice, that.

 

[mbt2001]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3736239.ece

Pirates can claim UK asylumMarie Woolf, Whitehall Editor
THE Royal Navy, once the scourge of brigands on the high seas, has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights.

Warships patrolling pirate-infested waters, such as those off Somalia, have been warned that there is also a risk that captured pirates could claim asylum in Britain.

The Foreign Office has advised that pirates sent back to Somalia could have their human rights breached because, under Islamic law, they face beheading for murder or having a hand chopped off for theft.

In 2005 there were almost 40 attacks by pirates and 16 vessels were hijacked and held for ransom. Employing high-tech weaponry, they kill, steal and hold ships’ crews to ransom. This year alone pirates killed three people near the Philippines.

Last week French commandos seized a Somali pirate gang that had held a luxury yacht with 22 French citizens on board. The hijackers were paid off by the boat’s owner and then a French helicopter carrier dispatched 50 commandos to seize the hijackers and the ransom money on dry land.

Britain is part of a coalition force that patrols piracy stricken areas and the guidance has troubled navy officers who believe they should have more freedom to intervene.

The guidance was sharply criticised by Julian Brazier MP, the Conservative shipping spokesman, who said: “These people commit horrendous offences. The solution is not to turn a blind eye but to turn them over to the local authorities. The convention on human rights quite rightly doesn’t cover the high seas. It’s a pathetic indictment of what our legal system has come to.”

A Foreign Office spokesman said: “There are issues about human rights and what might happen in these circumstances. The main thing is to ensure any incident is resolved peacefully.”

The guidance is the latest blow to the robust image of the navy. Last year 15 of its sailors were taken prisoner by the Iranians and publicly humiliated.

In the 19th century, British warships largely eradicated piracy when they policed the oceans. The death penalty for piracy on the high seas remained on the statute books until 1998. Modern piracy ranges from maritime mugging to stealing from merchant ships with the crew held at gunpoint.

 

[DRZinn]

Piracy is just one front of that country's civil war, and more specifically, piracy is the answer for fishermen who have had their careers and method of providing stolen from them by commericial fishing, dumping, and trade incursions.

That's ridiculous. Look up the meaning of "civil war." It does not include theft from third parties.

If you pay attention you'll notice I'm not addressing the issue of their being "forced into it" by greedy foreign corporations or other circumstances. I'm simply saying you can't logically put it into the context of a "civil war" or a "revolt." That's a blatant attempt to romanticize it.

If you are going to make snap judgements...based on the spoon fed bull crap ...you might broaden your horizons a bit...before making an opinion...the truth is found by reading ALL sides of the propaganda ...

Sure, but my "opinion" is based on the actual meaning of words, not any propaganda by any side.

there are some pretty compelling reasons why America and our western partners are not well liked over seas. There's more reason to their hatred than simple religious differences. They truly beleive they have been wronged, and deserve justice, and in some cases, I have to agree with them.

Now you're pulling in other arguments entirely. Sure, there are some good reasons for some people not to like us. Sure, they have good reason not to like each other. Sure, some great wrongs have been done. All that is irrelevant to the case of piracy. If the pirates were attacking ONLY foreign ships fishing in Somali waters you might have a point.

If you steal tomatoes from my garden, and I then go and steal clothes from my neighbor's car, how can one justify the other?

But when the pirates hijack the boats in territorial waters you could make the argument that they are in fact acting as a defacto militia of sovreign waters.

Not realistically you couldn't. Legitimate states do not claim ownership of everything that passes through their waters.

 

[tpaw]

Get the navy or the coast guard as an escort, you'll need it. Those pirates carry everything under the sun. Automatic machine guns, RPG's and the like. Not to mention that you will be heavily out numbered. I guess what I'm saying is, prepare to become shark bait.

 

[bulltaco]

How about enlisting some Gurkhas as security or members of the crew.

 

[Ky Larry]

I remember seeing a movie called "The Sand Pebbles" with Steve McQueen.The American Navy gun boat in the movie held a Repell Boarders drill. The crew was armed with Springfields, BAR's. .45 Autos, cutlass's,high pressure water hoses, steam hoses, and a 3 inch cannon. Don't know if this would work against modern pirates but they would damn sure know they'd been a fight.

 

[John-Melb]

Some really good news re. pirates, this morning, there's a few fewer pirates threatening honest seamen. A pirate mother ship locked horns with an Indian frigate, scratch one pirate vesel.
------------------------------------
Indian navy destroys pirate ship as super-tanker ransom demanded
16 hours ago

MOGADISHU, Somalia (AFP) — An Indian warship destroyed a pirate "mother vessel" in the Gulf of Aden, the navy said Wednesday, as bandits demanded a ransom for a Saudi super-tanker seized in the most daring sea raid yet.

The Indian frigate INS Tabar, one of dozens of warships from several countries protecting shipping lanes in the area, attacked the Somali pirate ship late Tuesday after coming under fire, navy spokesman Nirad Sinha said.

The incident came as shipping groups reported a new surge in hijackings off Somalia and the International Maritime Bureau said pirates based in the lawless African nation were "out of control".

"The INS Tabar closed in on the mother vessel and asked her to stop for investigation," the New Delhi navy spokesman said.

"But on repeated calls, the vessel's threatening response was that she would blow up the naval warship if it approached."

An exchange of fire ensued, causing explosions and the navy ship then used heavy guns. "From what we see in photographs the pirate vessel is completely destroyed," a senior officer said on condition he not be named.

It was the first time a mother ship had been destroyed, in the most significant blow to pirates to date.

The piracy crisis has grown since the weekend capture of the super-tanker Sirius Star. The huge vessel was carrying a full load of two million barrels of oil worth around 100 million dollars.

Al-Jazeera, the Arabic satellite television channel, broadcast an audio tape it said was of one of the pirates making a ransom demand.

"Negotiators are located on board the ship and on land. Once they have agreed on the ransom, it will be taken in cash to the oil tanker," said the man identified as Farah Abd Jameh, who did not indicate the amount to be paid.

Vela International, owners of the ship, said it "cannot confirm, nor deny" the reports, citing the safety of the crew.

Seized in the Indian Ocean some 500 miles (800 kilometres) off the African coast, the Sirius Star is now anchored at the Somali pirate lair of Harardhere, according to local officials.

The super-tanker has 25 crew -- 19 from the Philippines, two from Britain, two from Poland, one Croatian and one Saudi. It was the largest ship yet taken by Somali pirates and the attack furthest away from Somalia.

Pirates have hijacked three ships since capturing the Sirius Star.

Andrew Mwangura, from the East African Seafarers Association, said a Thai fishing boat, a Hong Kong-registered freighter, the Delight, and a Greek bulk carrier were seized Tuesday in the Gulf of Aden.

The Greek merchant marine ministry said it had no word of a Greek-flagged or Greek-owned vessel being seized but the other hijackings were confirmed.

The Delight, chartered by the Islamic Republic of Iran Shipping Lines, was carrying 25 crew members and 36,000 tonnes of wheat when it was seized on its way to the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas.

The shipping line's senior official Ensan Najib told IRNA news agency that no contact had been made with the ship and the hijackers.

On Wednesday, pirates released another Hong Kong-flagged ship, MV Great Creation, and its 25 crew seized two months ago, Mwangura told AFP, adding it was unclear whether a ransom was paid.

In southern Somalia, the hardline Islamist alliance controlling the key port of Kismayo promised tough measures to protect ships.

Pirates use mother ships, generally hijacked trawlers or deep-sea dhows, to tow speedboats from which they launch their attacks with grapnel hooks tied to rope ladders before neutralising the crews at gunpoint.

The Indian navy action could hamper the pirates in the Gulf of Aden but the group holding the Sirius Star operates from mother ships further south.

The Gulf of Aden controls access to the Suez Canal, which allows trade between Europe and Asia without taking the longer and more expensive route around southern Africa.

The European Union will launch its anti-piracy operation -- its first-ever -- off Somalia December 8 to boost warships from NATO, the United States and other nations already in the region, French Defence Minister Herve Morin said in Paris.

In Washington, the White House urged joint efforts to rescue the super-tanker.

Spokeswoman Dana Perino said "the goal would be to try to help get this ship to safety, secure the crew, and then work with our international partners to try to alleviate the piracy problem full stop."

Speaking in Beirut, British Foreign Secretary David Miliband called piracy "a threat to trade and prosperity."
----------------------------------

To paraphrase a great man from history, "There is but one reply to piracy, and it's best delivered with a 5 inch gun"

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

How about some 7.62 mini-guns, one fore and aft, 2 on each side, that ought to light'em up.