BHP FAN
Member
The Bulldog is a .38 S&W, the .38 Special hadn't come along yet, in 1888.
antique black powder cartridge firearms
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BHP FAN
Member
I don't believe the .38 Special came along until 1902, at the earliest.
arcticap
Member
My source listed the following usable case capacities:
.62 cc's equals about 10 grains of powder by volume.
1.15 cc's equals about 17 grains of powder by volume.
Here the conversion chart for converting cc's to volumetric grains:
http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
The .38 S&W is reportedly not able to hold 20 grains of powder when loaded with the bullet that it has historically been loaded with which weighs 158 grains, the same bullet as loaded into the .38 Special round that Oyeboten reported in his findings.
I don't know what the confusion is about, I only know that what the reported useable case capacity is of the .38 S&W and it's not anywhere near 20 grains of volume. But is reported to only hold 1/2 that amount when loaded. From comparing the size of each case, it would appear that's true and accurate.
Can we see a photo of your .38 S&W cartridge?
.62 cc's equals about 10 grains of powder by volume.
1.15 cc's equals about 17 grains of powder by volume.
Here the conversion chart for converting cc's to volumetric grains:
http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm
The .38 S&W is reportedly not able to hold 20 grains of powder when loaded with the bullet that it has historically been loaded with which weighs 158 grains, the same bullet as loaded into the .38 Special round that Oyeboten reported in his findings.
I don't know what the confusion is about, I only know that what the reported useable case capacity is of the .38 S&W and it's not anywhere near 20 grains of volume. But is reported to only hold 1/2 that amount when loaded. From comparing the size of each case, it would appear that's true and accurate.
Can we see a photo of your .38 S&W cartridge?
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BHP FAN
Member
My S&W load is 16 gr. of Triple seven. 20 is my .38 special load. see post # 17.
''I just took out my 1888 British Bulldog yesterday....six shot .38 S&W. Aloxed home cast with 16 gr. of Triple Seven.Yee haw! ''
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''I just took out my 1888 British Bulldog yesterday....six shot .38 S&W. Aloxed home cast with 16 gr. of Triple Seven.Yee haw! ''
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BHP FAN
Member
I can post up a picture of the cartridge when my boy drops by [he does my photos] but it will be difficult for you to see the sixteen gr. of three ''f'' Triple Seven inside.
andrewstorm
member
articap
Are you talkin volume or weight? maybe the origimal load was 12 grains or so.compressed b p 16 grains 777 could be possible.
Are you talkin volume or weight? maybe the origimal load was 12 grains or so.compressed b p 16 grains 777 could be possible.
BHP FAN
Member
Volume. I'm not sure what that would come out to in weight? But I know the load is possible ... because that's what I use ... it is a compressed load ... but not a lot. You shouldn't over compress Triple Seven.
arcticap
Member
Don't worry about it or give it another thought.
I'm reading that the interior dimensions of some brands of brass cases differ from others which causes them to have more or less powder capacity.
And there are ways to compress extra powder into confined spaces.
I like to really compress APP powder when using my loading press too.
Under pressure the packed granules actually seem to "squish" into the chamber!
Mea culpa!
I'm reading that the interior dimensions of some brands of brass cases differ from others which causes them to have more or less powder capacity.
And there are ways to compress extra powder into confined spaces.
I like to really compress APP powder when using my loading press too.
Under pressure the packed granules actually seem to "squish" into the chamber!
Mea culpa!
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BHP FAN
Member
I've seen the 1899 date, but others state 1902. I'm not sure, as it was a little before my time...
''The .38 Special was introduced in 1899 as an improvement over the .38 Long Colt which, as a military service cartridge, was found to have inadequate stopping power against the wooden shields of charging Moros during the Philippine-American War.[6] Most hand-loading manuals and other references date the cartridge to 1902 and the Smith & Wesson Military and Police revolver variation of that year...''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special
''The .38 Special was introduced in 1899 as an improvement over the .38 Long Colt which, as a military service cartridge, was found to have inadequate stopping power against the wooden shields of charging Moros during the Philippine-American War.[6] Most hand-loading manuals and other references date the cartridge to 1902 and the Smith & Wesson Military and Police revolver variation of that year...''
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Special
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BHP FAN
Member
They also give the birth date of the .38 S&W as 1877.
The Model of 1899 Smith & Wesson 'Military & Police' Revolvers, appeared in 1899, but, may not have been chambered for the .38 S&W Special Cartridge immediately, even if, or even though, the Cartridge was in effect born, in 1899 or possibly in 1898 even...so, there is some ambiguity as for maybe when the Cartridge made it's debut in available Chamberings and in Off-the-Shelf Boxes of Cartridges, and, now that we get down to it, I am not sure when that was, if it was 1899, 1900, 1901, or, as some sources say, 1902.
But I do have at least three S&W Revolvers, chambering the "38 S & W Special or U S Service Cartridge", which were made fairly early on.
I will have to ask Radagast for an evaluation of their years...and, also, if he has any strong opinion on when the .38 S&W Special Cartridge Chamberings first became available.
My own impression, was that the .38 Special Cartridge chambering, and, Cartridges to chamber in it, were available in 1899, even if some of the S & W 'M&P' Revolvers were intended for U.S. Service Cartridge ( .38 Colt ) only, as suited the Military at that time.
But I do have at least three S&W Revolvers, chambering the "38 S & W Special or U S Service Cartridge", which were made fairly early on.
I will have to ask Radagast for an evaluation of their years...and, also, if he has any strong opinion on when the .38 S&W Special Cartridge Chamberings first became available.
My own impression, was that the .38 Special Cartridge chambering, and, Cartridges to chamber in it, were available in 1899, even if some of the S & W 'M&P' Revolvers were intended for U.S. Service Cartridge ( .38 Colt ) only, as suited the Military at that time.
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BHP FAN
Member
yep, clear as mud. but that's as good an explanation as I've heard.
andrewstorm
member
found a great 32 rf revolver 96% cond.
That actually qualifies as a antique here in michigan ammo must not be redily availible thru the ordinary channels of commercial trade,and the gun shop owner refused to sell me the antique without a purchase permit,even though one is not nesessary,the gun was made pre 1899,i guess i should go get a pilots licence to drive a submarine also,the man wouldnt even check with the state police,so i could buy it,he said im sorry i cant help you the internet is unreliable information and dont ask me again.he went on to say that all politicians are crooks that dont know what they are doing by letting anyone buy a antique firearm,i said sir it is perfectly leagle,since you cant buy the ammo anymore,he said good day!
it was not a good day at all,he also perported to have gazillions of 32rimfire ammo for sale,but wasnt interested in selling it to me,now i know how it feels to be a black person at dennys in south carolina (d&d gunshop) now i know why they call it d&d must stand for DUMB & DUMMER 
That actually qualifies as a antique here in michigan ammo must not be redily availible thru the ordinary channels of commercial trade,and the gun shop owner refused to sell me the antique without a purchase permit,even though one is not nesessary,the gun was made pre 1899,i guess i should go get a pilots licence to drive a submarine also,the man wouldnt even check with the state police,so i could buy it,he said im sorry i cant help you the internet is unreliable information and dont ask me again.he went on to say that all politicians are crooks that dont know what they are doing by letting anyone buy a antique firearm,i said sir it is perfectly leagle,since you cant buy the ammo anymore,he said good day!
it was not a good day at all,he also perported to have gazillions of 32rimfire ammo for sale,but wasnt interested in selling it to me,now i know how it feels to be a black person at dennys in south carolina (d&d gunshop) now i know why they call it d&d must stand for DUMB & DUMMER Hedning
Member
Andrewstorm........... that`s the most frustrating story Iv heard in a long time. A gun shop owner not knowing the regulations in his area?!! Or was he a real f nazi?
Your Michigan regulations are pretty much the same as we got over here in Norway. Luckily we got it as §1 in our weapons law. Every gunshop got to have that law inside their shop. You should get those regulations in writing, stamped and signed by the police and nail it to his forehead.
Your Michigan regulations are pretty much the same as we got over here in Norway. Luckily we got it as §1 in our weapons law. Every gunshop got to have that law inside their shop. You should get those regulations in writing, stamped and signed by the police and nail it to his forehead.
Benmathes
Member
I love my originals- have 2 Rogers and Spencers that I shoot regularly- and carry as personal defense weapons- its just fun to imagine the look on some thugs face if he came face to face with a Rogers and Spencer! Originals are getting harder to find and are in the $3000 range if shootable
BHP FAN
Member
british%20bulldog%2044%20005_jpg_thumbnail1.jp
junkman_01
member
Now what kind of link is that supposed to be? :banghead:
BHP FAN
Member
Crud.I'll have my boy post it next time he comes over. it's my Bulldog....there's a pair of .44's over on SASS.....
andrewstorm
member
if norway can so can we
Here it seems as though everyone has their own idea of what the law is,and its the old law,we need a sign to be posted in all gun shops ,very good idea or else ill have to move to norway
Here it seems as though everyone has their own idea of what the law is,and its the old law,we need a sign to be posted in all gun shops ,very good idea or else ill have to move to norway
Hedning
Member
You are welcome to move over. You wouldnt belive how many of those old Rogers & Spencer revolvers that have a new home over here. There are 5 just in my little BP club. Remington 1858 new army are pretty common to see at the competitions. Are there any MLAIC shooters in here?
andrewstorm
member
glad dumb and dummer declined the sale
I found the antique revolver i really wanted,1896 colt 41 DA 1897 manufacture,beautiful browned gun,with good action and fair bore,looks like a good shooter for black powder or cowboy loads i bought it over the counter at a local gun shop,after seeing it a week earlier, they were open on Sunday,and there you have it,i like this DA so much ,i feel indebted to the dumb and dumber gunsmith,
I found the antique revolver i really wanted,1896 colt 41 DA 1897 manufacture,beautiful browned gun,with good action and fair bore,looks like a good shooter for black powder or cowboy loads i bought it over the counter at a local gun shop,after seeing it a week earlier, they were open on Sunday,and there you have it,i like this DA so much ,i feel indebted to the dumb and dumber gunsmith,
arcticap
Member
Hedning said:
Mike OTDP is.
He did go to Portugal and reported about the Championships and his trip while he was over there.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=539071
Hedning
Member
Two of my friends went to Portugal aswell. Not sure how they did down there though. I think they should be easy to find on the lists. They were the only Norwegians last year......... NO. looking at the list shows that they were not the only two.
MLAIC shooting is one big pile of fun. But I would like it even more if the "program" could have a little more variation. Im more or less shooting nothing but cartridge rifles though. Muzzle loading have had a slow start.
MLAIC shooting is one big pile of fun. But I would like it even more if the "program" could have a little more variation. Im more or less shooting nothing but cartridge rifles though. Muzzle loading have had a slow start.
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