Anyone know if this is true? DHS contract for 450M rounds of ammunition conspiracy

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Keep in mind this is a press release from the vendor who won the contract. All this means if that they have been awarded a contract that might result in selling up to 450 million rounds over the next 5 years to the .gov at the negotiated contract price. ATK releases this kind of information for public relations and investor purposes. Notice the paragraph long disclaimer at the end.

It would be interesting to see how many rounds are actually delivered. It will likely be substantially less. Saying "the gov just purchased 450 milliion rounds of ammo" is pretty misleading.

More information in the type of contract:
http://www.gsa.gov/portal/content/103926
 
Have ammo and gold......but farm land is out performing both, about 30% return just this year.
 
Yep, an IDIQ contract has no fixed minimum value, but it does establish an upper value. IOW, it means the ATK won a contract to supply somewhere between 1 and 450,000,000 rounds of ammunition. They worked hard for that contract as well and may not make enough off of it to pay for the cost of winning it OR they may make a profit if the gvt. actually orders enough ammo.

IDIQ contracts are let by governments all the time and have more risk than a firm contract with identified minimums.
 
Ammo availability

I realize this shortage happens when people get concerned and they buy extra but last week DHS bought 450 million rounds of .40cal and .223 cal from ATK here in Idaho. And hollow point on top of that. I thought they didn't use hollowpoint according the Geneva Convention rules of combat? Now the big ammo sellers show 0 in many of their stocks of 7.62X39 and .223 along with many other calibers. Tell me I should rest easy and not worry about it but my 11,000 rounds of every cal. I have looks like a pretty small pile in the corner. My gun dealer's sales have been cut in half because he can't promise restocking is in the future for the ammo to go with the weapons.
 
the hp ammo is probally for local pd worry when you see them buying ammo for guns leos and soldiers dont carry
 
I just got a can of 840rds of 5.56 from Cheaper than Dirt. They don't show any out of stock on their site. I looked at several other online websites that sell ammo and only one was out of stock in 5.56. I tend to suspect that we might have the beginning of another 'panic run' on popular ammo but not caused by government purchase.
Besides the TSA, Border Guard, and ICE the DHS also has the Coast Guard so there are several agencies that would use ammunition. LEOs do carry 5.56mm and .40S&W. The Coast Guard has just adopted th Sig Sauer P229R DAKTM .40 to replace their 9mm Berrettas. The Immigration and Custom Enforcement also adopted the .40S&W DAO in 1995 and they use hollow points. Border Patrol Agents also commonly carry the .223 caliber M4 Carbine and the H&K UMP .40 caliber submachine gun.
 
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Old news.

Ammo is everywhere you look.

Panic will only play into the sellers hands.
 
My first post here, but as a previous poster mentioned ammo and Idaho, I just received my order from Freedom Munitions based out of Idaho.
I ordered over a 1000 rounds of various calibers, some new and some reload, I must say that I'm very pleased with the quality, price, fast shipping and responsiveness of Freedom.

I will certainly order from them again.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
 
I thought they didn't use hollowpoint according the Geneva Convention rules of combat?

That was the Hague Convention and DHS aren't combatants. It's perfectly legal/acceptable to use them in their capacity, even preferred.

I realize this shortage happens when people get concerned and they buy extra but last week DHS bought 450 million rounds of .40cal and .223 cal from ATK here in Idaho.

They haven't bought them, they have a contract that should they buy they're locked into the price up to 450M rounds or 5 years.

It's not that much ammo if you consider qualifying and practice for a group the size of the DHS.

Tell me I should rest easy and not worry about it but my 11,000 rounds of every cal. I have looks like a pretty small pile in the corner.

You should rest easy. If there's a shortage, this will not be the cause. Your pile in the corner is a nice little buffer. I wouldn't worry. :)
 
last week DHS bought 450 million rounds of .40cal and .223 cal from ATK here in Idaho. And hollow point on top of that.

Gun shop rumor, most likely. Do you have any proof?

There was a story a couple of weeks ago about the government locking in the price on a bunch of ammo, and it has blossomed into all kinds of paranoid rumors.

Gun shops of course love this panic buying.
 
To Larry Ashcroft, the story about the ammo purchase was on Drudge Report and from a person that worked at the company. The gun dealer told me his suppliers of AK and AR ammo were dried up and they didn't know when they could replenish. SGammo was where I got my last stuff last week and there are alot of zeros beside there stocking numbers. That's all I know.
 
Well what the heck do you expect.. them to use their guns like blowguns?
The way I see it, it should do the economy some good.
 
It is strange that it is perfectly acceptable to use hollow-point ammo on your own citizenry, but not on your enemies. In a country putting down an uprising within its own borders (e.g. "Arab Spring" countries or anywhere engaged in a "Civil War"), at what point would the police and security forces have to switch from HP's to FMJ's to comply with the Geneva Convention?

I don't think the ammunition and firearms industries are going to leave much, if any, money on the table this year. I haven't had any trouble ordering bulk ammo or picking up 50's and 100's at Wally World (.38s, 9mm and .40S&W at least)... and prices seem to be about the same as last year at this time.
 
First off the US isn't a signatory of the Geneva Convention although we do honor it's provisions. Second the Convention ONLY applies to uniformed armed forces memebers, not criminals. One good justification of using effective ammunition by LEOs, Border Guards, et. al, is that they often are outgunned by the BGs, and don't have a rifle squad with them.
 
It is strange that it is perfectly acceptable to use hollow-point ammo on your own citizenry, but not on your enemies. In a country putting down an uprising within its own borders (e.g. "Arab Spring" countries or anywhere engaged in a "Civil War"), at what point would the police and security forces have to switch from HP's to FMJ's to comply with the Geneva Convention?

It was the Hague Convention; Declaration III, not Geneva. Not to detract from the topic at hand, but, the reason that it is acceptable is:

At the time of the Hague Convention July 2 1899 Europe didn't want the US to use the same rounds against "civilized" countries as she had against "savages" inside her own boundaries. This had more to do with the US fighting on foreign soil (specifically Europe) than it did anything else.

The text reads:

The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

Police and SF do not have to shoot FMJs, even in an uprising. In fact, our own military uses JHPs from time to time. I have read it several ways, but I do not believe that we're bound to the Hague Convention the way that most people think we are.

In either case, DHS using JHPs instead of FMJs in not only legal, it is preferred. DHS ordering JHPs instead of FMJs isn't a point worthy of any consideration at all.

There's not much to any of this. The contract IS real. The deliveries start in June, but, they haven't purchased 450M rounds. ATK won a contract to supply DHS with UP TO 450M rounds or UP TO 5 years, which ever comes first, at the price specified in the contract.

It's not that big of a deal and certainly no different than a DOD contract for larger contracts that flow by us every day unnoticed.

On the bright side, there's likely to be an overflow of 40SW on the market when DHS realizes that we're broke and can't afford all 450M rounds.
 
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According to this 2009 article, 7 to 12 BILLION rounds of ammo are bought by US gun owners every year. I don't think that counts all the ammo various government agencies buy regularly every year. The 90 million per year the DHS contracted for will raise demand by less than 1%. It doesn't seem like that would contribute much to any shortage.
 
You should breath easy. your stash of 11k rounds of ammo is a significant stockpile IMO and more than most people have. some people don't even have half of that.

If it really worried you, you can try getting into reloading.
 
I've seen this "panic post" on several forums that I frequent and I'm happy to say that cool heads seem to be pointing out the facts in this internet story. First, that the contract says "UP TO" a maximum, no minimum is listed. Another poster, who is a Homeland Security employee, mentioned that they have "XXX" amount of employees and even at the maximum number of rounds, split up amongst all agents would only come out to around 39 rounds each a month for them to shoot.

No ammo shortage hereabouts, as a matter of fact when I went in to Walmart to get my weekly stock of ammo, the case was fuller than it has been in a long time, they even had ammo I hadn't seen in there before. Finally got the 100 round packs of Federal in 9mm on the shelf, and more calibers of the Tulammo as well.
 
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