AR-15 .223REM vs 6.8SPC vs 300AAC Blackout vs 6x45 vs 6.5Grendel vs 7.62x39...

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Hi ssyoumans,
In deed very good rounds. Read the charts. The turbo is there. I don't have that one so I put the turbo between some of the others for reference.
Thanks.
 
Here the high BC 223 charts you wanted....
The .223 Rem 75gr bullets are awesome.
I have not tested 80gr bullets in the .223REM. I only restrict my shooting to the ones that fit in the magazines, sometimes a promag, cammega or VLD mags that can seat longer bullets but 80gr I cannot do it. Only single feed so I do not use them at all therefore I do not have the data. Even with other upper I have in 1:7 rate of twist these .224 bullets take so much case space that the whole load starts to loose effectiveness. For a bolt rifle or single feed then great. My 223 chamber is nothing really special, standard wylde.

AR15_223_6x45_Charts.gif
 
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68wj,
How many grains of H322 do you use with the accubonds? I am going to see if I can reproduce your load.
If I can I would provide references at 100,200, 300 and 500 yards with the 16"barrel.
 
I would go for the Lothar Walter. The 6x45 and 6.8SPC I got from them were very good. Look also in the 6.8SPC too. Whatever caliber get a good barrel and you will enjoy it more.
For me, a good barrel and a good scope are paramount.
 
Sorry for the late pics about the 'long ogive' magazine.
I am done with version 1 and I am going for version 2.
Reliability is not 100% there but now I need what I need todo to make it faster and better. One thing I am learning is that building a new magazine is not as simple as it seems at first. Like many other things, I guess! LOL!!!

The idea is to put both .223 80gr and 6mm 100gr+ bulltes and seat them as far as we can for long range shooting and have them feed reliably w/o need for single feed. For that we need to use the center rib in the mag as some other modifications. So far the prototype looks horrible but functional nevertheless.

These are some load we want to be able to feed from a magazine:
From left to right...
- 6x45 6mm 85gr Sierra GK.
- .233 REM 55gr FMJ reload.
- 6x45 6mm 105gr Hornady Amax
- 6x45 6mm 100gr Sierra SP hunting round.

I could not find the 77gr VLDs I had in .223 but you get the idea....

6x45vs233_2.gif

This is the first prototype magazine after all the work on it...
VLD_Magazine_V1_A.gif

Detail of the center-stack in the back....
VLD_Magazine_V1_B.gif

Aerial view...
VLD_Magazine_V1_D.gif

Angle..
VLD_Magazine_V1_C-1.gif

Sorry about the picture quality, the phone is not the best. I promise
better quality with 'long ogive' magazine version 2.0.
NExt time I promise some range pics and/or videos when testing
this in real fire mode.

Cheers.
E.
 
..Also the max length is going to vary depending of the bullet's secant ogive.
You need to find the max value, subtract at least 0.010" and then see if this
will fit in the max length of the new magazine.
That is what I do with every bullet. All cases are measured to be the same regardless
what case, with trimming if necessary.
 
I got the new magazines to continue with the version 2.0.
This should go faster and better. I am going to use aluminum vs. plastic to build the center stack channel for the bullets.
 
From left to right...

.243/6mm Barnes TTSX 80gr
.243/6mm Barnes TSX 85gr
.243/6mm Sierra Game King 85gr
.243/6mm Hornady SP 87gr
.243/6mm Sierra Game King 90gr FMJ
.243/6mm Sierra Game King 100gr
.243/6mm Hornady A-MAX 105gr (Target bullet)

.224 55gr FMJ (GI load)
.224 62gr Penetrator (green tip)
.224 70gr Barnes TSX
.224 75gr Hornady BTHP match
.224 77gr Barnes VLD

6x45vs233_3.gif

Barnes TSX in any caliber are extremely effective.
Partitions too. I am now testing their Nosler E-tip in 30caliber.
Sierra Game kinds do the job well too. Barnes have been my
best hunting bullet but for long range I prefer the partitions,
Sierras or even the Swift Sirocco II or Bergers hunting VLDs that have the best ballistic coefficient.
 
I dont have any problem with your analysis , however , if your gonna list an assortment of calibers , dont just show the narrative to the rounds you personally love!

List all the rounds and list what is good about them and bad , and if you have the specs list them as well!

It will alleviate all the negative comments!

SF Devildog!
 
I agree but It is faster to document the ones that I already have pictures and data summarized from documenting other projects.
I am working on the 7.62x39 right now. This one I shoot mostly factory but I will do my best to document them all the best I can nevertheless.
As I said I love them all.
 
Sorry, but do we really need two .243x45 Project threads now?
Click to expand...

WE? who is we? The "Firearms American Idol Panel" of the internet forums? Come on now!

These threads take a lot of work to prepare and document. I am doing this for fun, in good faith and without profit and encourage folks to participate in a positive way. A couple of friends that exchange experiences in some of these calibers asked me to put the updates corresponding the 6x45 under that AR project.

If someone doesn't like this or any of my other posts I recommend they do not follow them. FOLLOWING A POST IS OPTIONAL, NOT MANDATORY. Select the remove subscription and done!.

I personally do not care about any senseless opinions whether they are from known sources or perfect strangers.
 
1stmarine said:
WE? who is we? The "Firearms American Idol Panel" of the internet forums? Come on now!

These 2threads take a lot of work to prepare and documenttwice. I am doing this twicefor fun, in good faith and without double profit and encourage folks to participate in a positive way. A couple of friends that exchange experiences in some of these calibers asked me to put the updates corresponding the 6x45 under that AR project so i copied/pasted them here too.

If someone doesn't like this or any of my other posts I recommend they do not follow either of them. FOLLOWING A POST(s) IS OPTIONAL, NOT MANDATORY. Select the remove subscriptions and done!.

I personally do not care about any senseless opinions whether they are from known sources or perfect strangers. Not sure who this was directed at.
Click to expand...
Very well, continue to dupe to your delight. I just thought this thread had potential to satisfy the thread title and description in the 1st post. If we (oh, the collective forum that chooses to participate, not the "idol" panel) want to carry on two identical threads, so be it. It isn't my bandwidth, and as you correctly pointed out, I don't have to follow anymore.
 
How about the 30 remington Ar with 130 Barnes Tipped TSX , they are very accurate out of mine. They are about 2800 FPS.
 
How about the 30 Remington Ar with 130 Barnes Tipped TSX?
Click to expand...
I think we can make it work. I have already tested the Hornady 150 gr GMX for accuracy in the winter but we have to repeat this test for spreads. Next one is going to be the 165gr GMX. We will have to wait until later in the year (too many projects) but I will make a separate article on these great case and upper alone.
Cheers.
E.
 
You cant do Pro / Con without a fixed perspective. ( +/- for WHAT?).

The next person who comes along is going to have different needs and applications, so its all subjective.
 
Mr.Trooper,
I agree, it is all subjective to the purpose and special circumstances of each and everyone. Anyhow someone can find here enough information about a specific load, bullet, barrel, experiences, etc... that can be used for general information purposes.
Cheers.
E.
 
This was the AR tested this week. .223 RRA National Match barrel with Midwest Industries floating rail system. The scope is not a great one this one but also not too bad. It gets the job done.

As we confirmed it loves some of the hot 69SMKs and the Barnes TSX. We got several groups in the 1/4MOA. I am going to test with the swift hunting bullets and will post all the spread info...

Someone suggested that 3 round groups are not good. Well this might be for them but this is the way they are done... 1 shot and then 2 shots withing 10 seconds and Done!. Besides any tactical training rules were written anywhere this style was there for kritters(coyotes) at long range and as some of you probably know coyotes do not hung out for a 2nd shoot too long so we train as we use them in the field. As it happens some military tactics are very similar foundationally. Good thing coyotes are not trained in countersniping! LOL!.

AR15_RRA_testing_Speed_SMKs3.gif

AR15_RRA_testing_Speed_SMKs2.gif

AR15_RRA_testing_Speed_SMKs0.gif

AR15_RRA_NM_200Yards-1.gif

AR15_RRA_testing_Speed_SMKs5.gif
 
Choices, choices, choices. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on a new 6.8 complete upper when I ran across this post. Now what do I do? You really peaked my interest in the 6mm-223 since it is my favorate caliber 6mm (243). But the cost of a 243 upper would be a bit more than I want to pay (but I do reload for them) and love the results in my bolt gun. (just don't like the barrel life for the 243).

While I feel the 30 RAR, 50 Beawolf and the AR-10 (.308) are more gimicks to sell rifles than anything I would want to use in an AR. Your disortation on the 6.5, 6mm-233 and 6.8 I find more acceptable for an AR type rifle.

Now where do we go from there?? Any hard reference material would be appreciated.

Jim

Well, as long as we are posting pictures. Nothing fancy but it gets the job done. And Jake those 62 grain pulled steel cores are working out fairly good.

IMG_0481.gif
 
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Hi Jim,
Choices? just get them all!! ..one at the time of course. LOL!

The .223 rem alone has come long ways. We are not caught in the old rounds, powders and bullets of 1965 when the AR came out.
The best thing about the AR-15 is its modularity with not too much excess meat and weight for many uses.
I can hardly find any game that cannot be taken down by a .223 70gr TSX bullet, obvioulsy do not try to take down a grizly at 400 yards with this case but at moderate ranges are devastating like any other caliber.

So the same wiht the 6mmx45 or the 6.8spc upgrade. Plenty (and leftoever included) for most average folks what to do. White tail, black bear, Varmints, Mother in law (LOL!), etc...

In the varmint the .223 bullets are hard to beat but in the larger game/higher grain bullet department they start to lack of some options. In any case there are very few things a 70gr TSX bullet moving at 2800fps cannot do. Actually any TSX if you know about what they do. At the moment I have a total of zero game lost to these bullets in any caliber from 70gr .223 launched from a AR upper to the 285gr .338 launched from a bolt rifle and lapua case.
I think for all ranges some 6mm bullets will give you a great assortment of options and cost per round will be pretty acceptable if you stick to the 6x45.
The 6.8 will provide some amazing bullets but ballistic coeficients will be limited for AR department use.

I would carefully select an assortment of bullets based on the performance characteristics you really need and then decide on the round and the barrel, twist, etc... I think that the 6.8 and 6x45 will give you better barrel life due to the lower speed and less throat erosion so they should both give pretty good barrel life by any standards.
 
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