AR -15 Die set

[mj30wilson]

I am purchasing an AR-15 .223 varminter and need dies for reloading. I have always had good luk with Lee die sets and I am looking to buy some more but I have questions. Do I get the pacesetter dies with the crimp die fl sizer and seater or do I go with the deluxe set with the seater, fl and neck sizer dies? I am not going to abuse gun it will be a ranger.

Basically do I need to crimp in a ar .223 platform?

I plan to buy a upper in 6.8 spr and or .30 ar and need the same advice.

 

[ants]

The AR (like virtually all semiauto rifles) must use full length resized cases.
You can't reliably get away with neck sizing.

Bolt action rifles often prosper from neck sizing, but not lever action or semiauto.

I don't crimp any AR cartridges, from 223 to 308. Maybe others crimp.
I've checked my OAL after cycling and it doesn't shorten.
Good case mouth tension is the key.

The Lee FCD for Rifle is a good crimp die, should you ever discover that you need to crimp.

 

[threefeathers]

I loaded in excess of 10K 5.56 rounds the past two years in many different loadings.
In general for any semi auto weapon I use the Lee carbide crimp.
For my match ammo I use the redding taper crimp.

 

[cfullgraf]

I do not crimp my 223 Remington whether it is used in bolt rifle or an AR.

Full length sizing is a must for semi-auto, slide or lever action. Bolt action may benefit from neck sizing but those cartridges are limited to that rifle.

 

[gdcpony]

The crimp die is worth having. I crimp mine just because, but you may find it helps out too. Neck dies are great for bolt guns, but for an AR? I might try it just for fun, but if it doesn't work (chamber fully) getting the bolt back to get the round out will be anything but.

 

[mj30wilson]

Thanks looks like the pacesetter is the way to go. On lee's sight it states that their dies are made to act like a small base die. It states that if you have any problems they will fix/adjust the die at no cost.

 

[ants]

On lee's sight it states that their dies are made to act like a small base die.

Interesting! I'd like to read more.
Where did you see that on the web site?

 

[mj30wilson]

Go to lee precision web site
then to FAQ's
then to dies and die questions and another page will pop
then go to dies and die questions again
then:


Small Base die explanation

If you have the Lee Pacesetter die set with a full length-sizing die, you shouldn't need a small base die. Other manufacturers make small base dies on the premise that semi-autos require cases sized to the minimum allowable case dimension for reliable feeding, but in reality most semi-autos have chambers cut on the large side for that same purpose. The result is overworked brass and shortened case life. If you have any chambering problems with ammunition that has been sized with a Lee full length sizing die, return the die and a couple fired cases to the factory for free adjustment.

Our address is;

Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U,
Hartford, WI 53027.

 

[ants]

OK, got it. Great to read that, it mirrors what we've seen on this Handloading and Reloading forum over the past several years.

Adjusted tight, standard full length sizing dies can size down a case for probably 99% of semiauto and lever action rifles out there (I'm just guessing about the number, it may very well be 98% more or less.)

Small Base dies are useful when the operator simply finds it easier to size down without having to adjust really tight, or when a rifle happens to have a really tight chamber or headspace dimension.

 

[Waywatcher]

I use Small Base Resizing dies for my AR, and definitely recommend the same for others.

It is interesting to note that .30 Carbine and 7.62x39 dies are always Small Base Dies; because they are for semi-autos...

I don't crimp my .223 rounds.

 

[rikman]

Redding National Match Set

 

[highlander 5]

Used to use a small base die set,don't anymore. Get a standard set of dies and a case gauge
and you'll be fine. I used to crimp my ammo but don't any more as I use a carbide expander ball that expands the case mouth to .222". Neck tension is more than sufficient to take the beating of being fed into an AR.

 

[Walkalong]

I use a standard FL die set and size to fit a case gauge for my AR. I still get very good case life, and, so far, 100% function as far as rounds fitting the chamber. There is no need to crimp ammo loaded for accuracy in the AR. As long as you have sufficient neck tension, you will be fine.

 

[RustyFN]

use Small Base Resizing dies for my AR, and definitely recommend the same for others.

Just curious why you would want to use a small base die when it's not needed?

 

[REL1203]

I just ordered a set of the new AR RCBS SB dies, from what I read, seemed like it was a very good choice, priced right for what I needed.

 

[45ACPUSER]

You have many choices out there.

The standard Pacesetter Dies are what want. If you decide to crimp then you have a separate crimp die. That way you do not have to mess with your seater/crimp die. Seating is one step, and crimping another.

Neck Sizing is reserved for Bolt Action guns only. Now if you want to control neck tension, then you need Redding Type S FL Sizer with the appropriate busihing.

The key to a uniform crimp is uniform case length.

If I was making blasting ammo I would taper crimp 223 55gr FMJ ammo. But, for all other auto loading ammo I never crimp. And, I have loaded ammo for 223 308 and 3006 with no problems. You have to respect the case. Auto loader brass has a short case life due to the FL sizing, violence of being loaded into the chamber, violence of extraction, and other reasons. This work hardens the brass fast, and with that come in adequate neck tension even with FL sizing. Rule of thumb if you can telescope the bullet into the case neck while pushing it against a solid object then the whole lot of brass is suspect.....

 

[Rollis R. Karvellis]

My .223 case that I, buy new, or that is range pickup's, go through the small base die before the 1st, prep is done. After that I just use the reguler size die that is on the 650. I, still use my crimp die, but it is just barly touching the case. I, just can't stand the ideal of having spent the money, and not using it.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I know there are many here who disagree but I usually add a slight factory crimp to all my rifle ammo. I personally feel it adds to the ammo consistency. I know not everyone here agrees and I respect them and their abilities, I just feel differently. I suggest you try both ways and see which works better in your rifle.

As for the Lee dies I can attest to the fact they will build accurate ammo if you do your part. I make .223 ammo for my bolt rifle that will shoot sub 1/2MOA all day long.

 

[HJ857]

I've always found Lee dies to be just fine. However I do now use a RCBS small base sizing die and I've found that it does size more consistently and sized brass passes my JP Rifles case gauge almost every time, whereas brass sized through the Lee die produces a much larger number of cases that do not pass the gauge test.

I also use a very light crimp with the Lee FCD, for exactly the same reason that ArchAngelCD stated. I think the FCD is something you have to test to see if it's right for your application.

Discussions about the FCD seem to always bring up "no need for crimping IF you have proper neck tension" This is entirely true. The problem is - what IS proper neck tension? Unless you can, and do measure neck tension, it's an entirely moot point.

If you use mixed range pick up brass, you'll find that neck tension will vary quite a bit. The FCD will help with consistency.

 

[Hondo 60]

When I bought my first AR, I also bought a book called "The AR-15" by Patrick Sweeney.
He recommends that ammo be crimped.
There's a chart in the book where he shows consistency & accuracy.
The crimped rounds made a much smaller pattern.

Now could he have done that with better reloading techniques?
I don't know. But there's a fourth hole in my progressive press, so why not crimp?

 

[popper]

Whatever die you get, make sure it doesn't use a roll crimp. If you use flat base bullets, you will need to flare the neck and then crimp to remove the flare. I use the RCBS AR that has a taper crimp to remove the flare.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I have the Pacesetter die set in .223Rem. I reload for my AR15 and I have yet to have a jam, malfunction, or any problem of any kind. I do put a crimp on my rounds, but I don't think it is necessary. However, it gives me peace of mind.

 

[rcmodel]

If you use flat base bullets, you will need to flare the neck and then crimp to remove the flare.

Not so.

There is no need to ever flare a bottle-neck rifle case, unless you are using cast lead bullets.

In that case, you need to use a Lyman M-die to expand the neck in two stages to prevent lead shaving.

Otherwise, chamfer the case necks and flat base bullets seat just fine with only the normal neck expander button pulled through the case neck during sizing.

I don't even know of any way to flare a .223 case neck other then the Lyman M-die mentioned.
A standard .223 die set certainly won't do it, as it isn't needed.

rc