Had my ar about a year, only put about 50 rounds of various ammo through it. No problems at all, and this rifle is my most valued personal possession. However, a police armorer (trained and schooled) looked over it today and said the bolt was very tight in the carrier, to the point gas rings were damaged and needed replaced. Is this normal for a current civilian ar, just needs more shooting to break in (and it is and has been properly lubricated)?cwd
ar-15 sticky bolt
- Thread starter cwdotson
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briansmithwins
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Are the gas rings damaged?
Can the bolt be moved by hand?
Pics?
BSW
Can the bolt be moved by hand?
Pics?
BSW
Jackal
Member
The bolt should require some force to move in/out. If it moves freely, then the gas rings are worn out. If dropping the carrier from a few inches onto the bolt face wont close it, then it is too tight.
bolt
1. The armorer said they were damaged, opened too much, I think.
2. Pictures specifically of what-like to comply but tell me what would help.
3. I'll try that test with the bolt.
Thanks for the responses folks. I'm hoping it just shows tight tolerances on manufacture and, of course, the mandate to spend more time and money on shooting and ammo, to break her in.cwd
1. The armorer said they were damaged, opened too much, I think.
2. Pictures specifically of what-like to comply but tell me what would help.
3. I'll try that test with the bolt.
Thanks for the responses folks. I'm hoping it just shows tight tolerances on manufacture and, of course, the mandate to spend more time and money on shooting and ammo, to break her in.cwd
MachIVshooter
Member
Does it run right? If so, don't worry about it. There are a lot of idiots who think they know the AR. Most of these fools are talking out of their posteriors.
The litmus test for gas rings being too loose is if the bolt falls back into the carrier under it's own weight.
However, if inverted on the bolt face, the weight of a standard M16 carrier should be enough to push the bolt in. It may not with brand new rings, but once they've seated and been through a thermal cycle (read-at least a mag or two fired), it ought to.
The AR is really a pretty forgiving platform, able to run reliably with a wide range of bullet weights and powder charges from mild to wild, and do so with high round counts on wear parts. There are a number of videos out there of M16s cooking along into the 700, 800+ round count in full auto without a hiccup until they finally melt the gas tube or blow out the red-hot barrel.
The litmus test for gas rings being too loose is if the bolt falls back into the carrier under it's own weight.
However, if inverted on the bolt face, the weight of a standard M16 carrier should be enough to push the bolt in. It may not with brand new rings, but once they've seated and been through a thermal cycle (read-at least a mag or two fired), it ought to.
The AR is really a pretty forgiving platform, able to run reliably with a wide range of bullet weights and powder charges from mild to wild, and do so with high round counts on wear parts. There are a number of videos out there of M16s cooking along into the 700, 800+ round count in full auto without a hiccup until they finally melt the gas tube or blow out the red-hot barrel.
As has already been noted, new gas rings do normally make for a tight fit.
But if you can move the bolt in-and-out by hand once actually in the bolt
carrier, it's fine.
Shoot the bolt wet... not ridiculously/dripping/hydraulic lock-up wet, but really
wet where the first few shots actually blow oil mist out of the ports and don't worry
about it.
postscript-1: 50 rounds is like driving a new car home from the dealer. It's still squeaky new.
postscript-2: Shooting the AR wet makes for ridiculously easy cleanup.
But if you can move the bolt in-and-out by hand once actually in the bolt
carrier, it's fine.
Shoot the bolt wet... not ridiculously/dripping/hydraulic lock-up wet, but really
wet where the first few shots actually blow oil mist out of the ports and don't worry
about it.
postscript-1: 50 rounds is like driving a new car home from the dealer. It's still squeaky new.
postscript-2: Shooting the AR wet makes for ridiculously easy cleanup.
Brass2grass
Member
Normally I'd say to check for carbon build up on the bold and inside the carrier but Ina new gun that shouldn't be a problem. If you have access to other bolts, you can try and trade them out and see if it still seems too tight. You may have a knick in the metal or just have a tight bolt.
carbine85
Member
If it's working just clean it, lube it, and run it. I can't believe the gas rings are worn out after 50 rounds. It should run just fine with 2 rings.
wanderinwalker
Member
To echo others, nothing on an AR-15 should be "worn out" after 50 rounds. In fact, the bolt, gas rings, BCG and barrel extension haven't even worn in to each other after that few rounds. My Colt was sticky going into battery the first couple hundred times, but has smoothed up now with usage.
As for gas rings, I can't understand why they get so much attention on these rifles. My Armalite match rifle must have chugged through 10k rounds on it's first set of rings. I only changed them because I read on the Internet they need to be replaced periodically, so it must be true. Part of me wishes I had just left them alone. I actually deliberately lined up the gaps on the rings on the bolt in the Colt before my last range session. Guess how many issues I ran into?
cwdotson, clean your rifle, lube it and go run a couple hundred rounds through it. That should smooth things a bit.
As for gas rings, I can't understand why they get so much attention on these rifles. My Armalite match rifle must have chugged through 10k rounds on it's first set of rings. I only changed them because I read on the Internet they need to be replaced periodically, so it must be true. Part of me wishes I had just left them alone. I actually deliberately lined up the gaps on the rings on the bolt in the Colt before my last range session. Guess how many issues I ran into?
cwdotson, clean your rifle, lube it and go run a couple hundred rounds through it. That should smooth things a bit.
Blade First
Member
Lot's of good advice here but pay attention to good-quality lube. ARs just do not like to run dry...especially if they are brand new.
Be sure and give us a follow-up. Good info helps us greatly.
Be sure and give us a follow-up. Good info helps us greatly.
MachIVshooter
Member
Steel cased stuff is fine for plinking ammo. I just wouldn't use it in a go-to rifle. It won't hurt your gun, it's just that some of it is really weak (Tula), and much of it is bit lacking in QC; in every case of Wolf, Tula or Barnaul I've tried, a few of the cases were just oversize enough, especially shoulder, to get jammed in the chamber of some of my tighter rifles to the point where the extractor ripped the rim off and the unfired round had to be knocked out with a cleaning rod.
herrwalther
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Part of the unofficial military re assemble is to test the gas rings and make sure the cam pin, bolt, and carrier work properly. Push the bolt in, making sure the cam pin moves. While holding the carrier by the lower end, flick it outward. If the bolt goes back to its original position, then it is not too tight in the carrier to function.
Brass2grass
Member
Unofficial? Lol that's what they taught us in armory school.
herrwalther
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Brass2grass said:
Well, unofficial because it is what every Private Joe Snuffy does. Mostly because it is fun I would think, but does serve a few purposes. That test is not in the standard Warrior Level I literature.
Brass2grass
Member
I have no idea what warrior level 1 literature is, but it works for the military so it works for me.
MachIVshooter
Member
That line of reasoning is fairly sound where guns and gear are concerned, but for your own sake, don't apply it to any other facet of life.
In any case you might want to buy a couple extra sets of gas rings, good to have around. I'd take the rings off, lube the bolt and check to see that it slides easily in the carrier with out the rings.
If it does, put the gas rings back on the bolt, reassemble.
I would also suggest buying other spare parts, firing pin, firing pin retaining pin, cam pin, extractor spring, extractor pin. For the future just in case. Or look for a "field repair parts" kit. Even if you don't need it now.
If it does, put the gas rings back on the bolt, reassemble.
I would also suggest buying other spare parts, firing pin, firing pin retaining pin, cam pin, extractor spring, extractor pin. For the future just in case. Or look for a "field repair parts" kit. Even if you don't need it now.
ar
Thanks for good advice and thoughts, will update when I am able to actually shoot and such. Some notes:
1. Was lubed properly, I am fairly certain, and will keep it such.
2. I agree on the replacement parts, and do this for all my firearms.
3. I do not want to make a mountain of a molehill, or an issue out of a nonissue, but I have ignored observations in the past-firearms, motorcycles, mountain bikes, automobiles, home repair, marriage, etc.-and things out of whack did become major problems.
I am fairly certain this is simply a tight tolerance on a civilian arm, apparently very well-made, and just needs breaking in (while lubricated, of course).cwd
Thanks for good advice and thoughts, will update when I am able to actually shoot and such. Some notes:
1. Was lubed properly, I am fairly certain, and will keep it such.
2. I agree on the replacement parts, and do this for all my firearms.
3. I do not want to make a mountain of a molehill, or an issue out of a nonissue, but I have ignored observations in the past-firearms, motorcycles, mountain bikes, automobiles, home repair, marriage, etc.-and things out of whack did become major problems.
I am fairly certain this is simply a tight tolerance on a civilian arm, apparently very well-made, and just needs breaking in (while lubricated, of course).cwd
Brass2grass
Member
One issue I've noticed a lot among civilians and military alike, is that when they say "well lubed" they over kill the lube. Not that this is the issue with you're weapon but when the carbon or dust mixes with the excessive lube especially with clp, it creates somewhat of a lapping compound and the more you shoot before cleaning the thicker it gets and often leads to binding. Just something to keep in mind.
herrwalther
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Brass2grass said:
That is because "well lubed" or "wet" is subjective and there isn't much way to measure it. I never ran my service rifles with much lube according to the "experts." I put one line of lube along the dust cover side of the bolt carrier and another line of lube along the opposite wall of the receiver. Charge the rifle a few times to get it in the proper crevices. Never had any issue with gummy build up using live ammo. With blanks I use a bit more.
Actually the excess lube suspends and carries away carbon fouling, dirt, dust & grime. If you find your oil has combined with dirt to become slurry, you need to add more oil
Brass2grass
Member
I was an Armorer in the Marines for 4 years and have sat on hundreds of ranges. Never seen that happen nor have I heard of it. Now that you've added even more oil to what was already deemed excessive, it will be turned into particulate every time you pull the trigger and you will be subject to the mist. It may work for you idk, not something we're taught. A few drops on the carrier, rack the charging handle and you're good to go.
As you point out, the AR does not need to be lubed so much it's dripping. However, the problem with excessive lube is that it's messy, not that it's detrimental to function. Oil is supposed to trap and suspend gunk so that the gunk can be carried away to keep the moving parts moving. If the oil is getting thick with gunk, add more oil. It will thin out the thickened goo, wash away the gunk and keep the rifle humming along until it can be cleaned.
Nothing wrong with starting off with just enough oil to get the job done. But don't be afraid to give the BCG a good squirt to keep things running smoothly and don't worry about over lubing an AR. It won't hurt thing
Nothing wrong with starting off with just enough oil to get the job done. But don't be afraid to give the BCG a good squirt to keep things running smoothly and don't worry about over lubing an AR. It won't hurt thing
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