hossdaniels
Member
AR dictionary? whats nm? or A2 vs. A4 vs. A3? What kind of upper can you get that allows for use of iron sights and scope?:banghead: buying bolt rifles and revolvers is much simpler
AR?
- Thread starter hossdaniels
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redneckrepairs
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A2 tends to refer to sights , the new marine inspired target style specificly , an a4 reciever as i understand it is a flat top reciever coupled with a fixed front sight post assembly . No the fixed sight dont interfeer with a scope once you get 6x or so . The state of ar today is certinly a whole new world and if you are considering one wade thro the trolls over at http://ar15.com/ ( moderated like glock talk board ) or http://www.m4carbine.net/forum.php if you are intrested in the " go to " end of things with the ar platform . Anyway i am shure more knowledgeable folks will chime in with reccomendations .
fastbike
Member
AR Dictionary
NM is national match. Typically refers to trigger. May also refer to barrel or complete rifle.
A2 is sort of the standard AR where the carry handle is part of the upper. Has iron sights.
A4 often called flattop. May or may not have iron sights. Can use detachable handle. Usually configured for optics of some type.
A3 is technically a military flattop. Originally distinguished between Semi/3 round burst and semi/full auto variants. Now mainly used for a flattop w/ integral rail on top. Can use detachable handle.
All uppers can use iron sights and scope, depending on how much trouble you're willing to take and how much money you're willing to spend and what kind of optic you want.
You are probably best off w/ and A4 w/ see through mounts (for a traditional scope). You can get flip-up irons for this. You will also want to make sure the gas block is flattopped as well w/ a picatinney rail.
NM is national match. Typically refers to trigger. May also refer to barrel or complete rifle.
A2 is sort of the standard AR where the carry handle is part of the upper. Has iron sights.
A4 often called flattop. May or may not have iron sights. Can use detachable handle. Usually configured for optics of some type.
A3 is technically a military flattop. Originally distinguished between Semi/3 round burst and semi/full auto variants. Now mainly used for a flattop w/ integral rail on top. Can use detachable handle.
All uppers can use iron sights and scope, depending on how much trouble you're willing to take and how much money you're willing to spend and what kind of optic you want.
You are probably best off w/ and A4 w/ see through mounts (for a traditional scope). You can get flip-up irons for this. You will also want to make sure the gas block is flattopped as well w/ a picatinney rail.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
A1-A4 refer to military designations for rifles and are often loosely used to refer to parts that match the military version. So you have to understand the difference in the military M16s to make sense of them:
M16A1 - Has a fixed carry handled built into the upper receiver and rear sights that are only windage adjustable with a tool. No shell deflector on the upper receiver. It also has a 0.625" diameter "pencil" barrel that is much lighter than later versions. Round front sight post. Full-auto.
M16A2 - Has a fixed carry handle built into the upper receiver and adjustable target rear sights (adjustable for both elevation and windage without tools). It has a shell deflector on the upper receiver and a 0.750" barrel forward of the front sight post and 0.625" under the handguards. Also has a four-sided front sight post instead of the round A1 fron sight post. Three-round burst.
M16A3 - This is just a full-auto M16A2; but many manufacturers are unaware that this model existed so when they started marketing flattops they referred to them as "A3" models. So in this case, the actual military A3 has nothing to do with the civilian marketed models (which would more properly be called an A4)
M16A4 - This is a flattop M16A2 (picatinny rail on the upper receiver instead of a carry handle). Flattop receivers are A4 receivers.
M16A1 - Has a fixed carry handled built into the upper receiver and rear sights that are only windage adjustable with a tool. No shell deflector on the upper receiver. It also has a 0.625" diameter "pencil" barrel that is much lighter than later versions. Round front sight post. Full-auto.
M16A2 - Has a fixed carry handle built into the upper receiver and adjustable target rear sights (adjustable for both elevation and windage without tools). It has a shell deflector on the upper receiver and a 0.750" barrel forward of the front sight post and 0.625" under the handguards. Also has a four-sided front sight post instead of the round A1 fron sight post. Three-round burst.
M16A3 - This is just a full-auto M16A2; but many manufacturers are unaware that this model existed so when they started marketing flattops they referred to them as "A3" models. So in this case, the actual military A3 has nothing to do with the civilian marketed models (which would more properly be called an A4)
M16A4 - This is a flattop M16A2 (picatinny rail on the upper receiver instead of a carry handle). Flattop receivers are A4 receivers.
hossdaniels
Member
thanks for the replies so far, whats a 2 stage trigger?
Zach S
Member
The A2 barrel described by Bartholomew is refered to as the government profile barrel by most manufacturers. HBARs are 1"(?) in diameter under the handguards. Not so bad on a 16", but really muzzleheavy on a 20" IMO. You may like it, I dont.
Some manufactrures offer a medium contour barrel. There's no real industry standard on this, however it is heaver than a pencil barrel, but not as heavy as an HBAR under the handguards. Forward of the front sight remains .750".
A two stage trigger feels like a good 1911 trigger with too much takeup. Thats about the best that I can explain it...
Some manufactrures offer a medium contour barrel. There's no real industry standard on this, however it is heaver than a pencil barrel, but not as heavy as an HBAR under the handguards. Forward of the front sight remains .750".
A two stage trigger feels like a good 1911 trigger with too much takeup. Thats about the best that I can explain it...
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Barth, not to get too technical, but shouldn't flattops be known as M4 uppers being that the M4 was the first to have a flattop?
Also, the A4 rifles have M4 feedramps IIRC. There's no difference between the A4's upper receiever and that of the M4 adopted back in the 1990's.
I guess for rifles (not carbines) the first to have a flattop was the A4.
I usually just call them flattop or carry handle. Eliminates the military/commercial designation confusion and misnomers.
Rifles:
A1 = carry handle
A2 = carry handle
A3 = carry handle
A4 = flattop
Carbines:
CAR = carry handle
M4 = flattop
M4A1 = flattop
Do I have my AR history/facts correct?
Also, the A4 rifles have M4 feedramps IIRC. There's no difference between the A4's upper receiever and that of the M4 adopted back in the 1990's.
I guess for rifles (not carbines) the first to have a flattop was the A4.
I usually just call them flattop or carry handle. Eliminates the military/commercial designation confusion and misnomers.
Rifles:
A1 = carry handle
A2 = carry handle
A3 = carry handle
A4 = flattop
Carbines:
CAR = carry handle
M4 = flattop
M4A1 = flattop
Do I have my AR history/facts correct?
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
Actually I think there were a batch or two of M4s produced as carry handles in the early 1990s. I doubt many of them are still in service that way, especially given the units that used them; but the government does like to hold on to ancient weapon parts for some reason.
There is a real well used picture of a sailor going through the weapons training portion of BUD/S and he has an M203 attached to a carry-handle M4. The picture is in a late 1980s/early 1990s copy of All Hands - whichever one had an article about Rudy Boesch (now famous for Survivor) being the Bullfrog of the Pond.
Otherwise, the facts/history look right to me.
There is a real well used picture of a sailor going through the weapons training portion of BUD/S and he has an M203 attached to a carry-handle M4. The picture is in a late 1980s/early 1990s copy of All Hands - whichever one had an article about Rudy Boesch (now famous for Survivor) being the Bullfrog of the Pond.
Otherwise, the facts/history look right to me.
also, National Match isn't specifically a trigger; normally refers to a complete rifle that is legal for use in the Civilian Marksmanship Program's matches, or the Service Rifle class in NRA matches
this mostly means that externally, they resemble bart's description of an M16A2 (minus the fun 3-round burst part, of course). if a rifle is marketed as a NM, that also typically means it has match type parts in it. that normally means a better than average barrel, sites with a much smaller peep on the rear and much more granular windage/elevation adjustments, and often a 2-stage trigger
this mostly means that externally, they resemble bart's description of an M16A2 (minus the fun 3-round burst part, of course). if a rifle is marketed as a NM, that also typically means it has match type parts in it. that normally means a better than average barrel, sites with a much smaller peep on the rear and much more granular windage/elevation adjustments, and often a 2-stage trigger
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