TheHighRoadDude
Member
Ok, started looking for some rails for my Smith and Wesson M&P15 and I'm not sure what I should be looking for. Does anyone have any suggestions? Or please enlighten me with more information!
Thanks!
Thanks!
AR15 accessories question
- Thread starter TheHighRoadDude
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kwelz
Member
Depends on your intended use really. I only tend to recommend 2 types of rail.
Troy TRX extreme rail and Daniel Defense rails.
I tend to prefer the Daniel Defense rails however the Troy are a bit lighter and cheaper. There are a couple other companies on the market making good rails now. One, Centurion seems to have a good product.
You will find a lot of junk rails on the market. They are heavy and made from Cheap, weak materials with a questionable lockup and anti-rotation method.
Avoid brands like UTG, Yankee hill and Command Arms.
Troy TRX extreme rail and Daniel Defense rails.
I tend to prefer the Daniel Defense rails however the Troy are a bit lighter and cheaper. There are a couple other companies on the market making good rails now. One, Centurion seems to have a good product.
You will find a lot of junk rails on the market. They are heavy and made from Cheap, weak materials with a questionable lockup and anti-rotation method.
Avoid brands like UTG, Yankee hill and Command Arms.
TheHighRoadDude
Member
So size wise this is what I'd be looking for?
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-drop-in-carm4#
http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-drop-in-carm4#
AR27
Member
That would work very well for you.
kwelz
Member
Ahhh.. If we are just talking Drop in Rails then also look at:
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/ez-car.html
https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/ez-car.html
I agree with the above post and I might add it depends on your usage. Rails start to add weight quickly; then start putting stuff on the rails and you end up with a crow bar weighted rifle.
However!!!!!!! hahahah I have a set of quad rails on one of my first ARs I ever purchased which came with some aluminum quads that I know cost less than $39.00 on sale.... They have never slipped or given me problems. Are they heavier than a Troy yes sir they are but in price they are 4x lighter. Some of my other rifles have the free float quads etc etc and are nice but so were the original grips.
The one that has the heavy quad rail I use for wooded/brush hunting and do not worry about briar's and brush doing damage to the quads they are built to with stand anything I am likely to dish out.
If I were going to be humping 20 miles a day I might change them out for something lighter or go original but for me the rifle balances well and it's use fits my purposes.
Figure out the purpose of the quads and your intended use and go from there. CDNN or Optics Planet and 10,000 other places you will find them from$39 to $239 just depends on what you are looking for.
However!!!!!!! hahahah I have a set of quad rails on one of my first ARs I ever purchased which came with some aluminum quads that I know cost less than $39.00 on sale.... They have never slipped or given me problems. Are they heavier than a Troy yes sir they are but in price they are 4x lighter. Some of my other rifles have the free float quads etc etc and are nice but so were the original grips.
The one that has the heavy quad rail I use for wooded/brush hunting and do not worry about briar's and brush doing damage to the quads they are built to with stand anything I am likely to dish out.
If I were going to be humping 20 miles a day I might change them out for something lighter or go original but for me the rifle balances well and it's use fits my purposes.
Figure out the purpose of the quads and your intended use and go from there. CDNN or Optics Planet and 10,000 other places you will find them from$39 to $239 just depends on what you are looking for.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
What's wrong with YHM? I'm happy with the YHM lightweight ones that came on my BCM middy.
Why are you adding rails? Did you want to free float? Do you need to attach accessories? Sky makes a valid point. You'd be surprised at how fast a light and nimble 14.5" carbine can become a 10lb pig.
Only get what you need, unless you're one of those guys that tricks his carbine out to shoot it off of a bipod at the range. If you just need to add a light or even a vertical grip, I'd say look at a set of Magpul MOE handguards and add rails where you need them.
If you want to free float, I'd check out either Larue or Daniel Defense. I don't like the way the Troy attaches to the barrel nut. I can't say from personal experience, because I've never owned a Troy because I don't trust the way it attaches to the barrel nut. If you go to an AR15 site and do a search, odds are that you'll find lots of guys praising their really cool Troy, inspite of the fact that they've had problems with the threaded sleeve pulling through.
Only get what you need, unless you're one of those guys that tricks his carbine out to shoot it off of a bipod at the range. If you just need to add a light or even a vertical grip, I'd say look at a set of Magpul MOE handguards and add rails where you need them.
If you want to free float, I'd check out either Larue or Daniel Defense. I don't like the way the Troy attaches to the barrel nut. I can't say from personal experience, because I've never owned a Troy because I don't trust the way it attaches to the barrel nut. If you go to an AR15 site and do a search, odds are that you'll find lots of guys praising their really cool Troy, inspite of the fact that they've had problems with the threaded sleeve pulling through.
Zerodefect
member
Larue for Carbines
DD Lite for Rifles
Magpul XTM rail covers
I like to chop the front sight base and use the longest FF rails I can. 11-12" on 14.5 barrels, 13" on 16" barrels, 14" on 18" barrels. Good rails don't have much of a weight penalty.
I like to stretch out my grip stance. I also run a small light, 2 Gear sector handstops, and Aux front sling mount for a Magul MS2 sling on my rails.
DD Lite for Rifles
Magpul XTM rail covers
I like to chop the front sight base and use the longest FF rails I can. 11-12" on 14.5 barrels, 13" on 16" barrels, 14" on 18" barrels. Good rails don't have much of a weight penalty.
I like to stretch out my grip stance. I also run a small light, 2 Gear sector handstops, and Aux front sling mount for a Magul MS2 sling on my rails.
mljdeckard
Member
If it isn't free-floated, and you aren't mounting aiming devices, the Magpul MOE grips drop in for $40.
I have a Danield Defense Omega 7 drop in free float on my S&W. It is light, thin and rock solid. On my 3 gun AR i have a Midwest Industries SS-12 free float tube. The MI tube is the lightest 12 inch metal forend on the market. Other good brands are Troy, Samson, YHM and Spikes now has a nice rail. I am missing a few. The brands mentioned above run from $150 - $300.
Modular rails can get a lot done, like the aforementioned Magpul. The magpul forends are lite and magpul makes great stuff. Most of the time you wont need all four full length rails. A top rail is nice for adding a flip up front sight. Other than a top rail, i havent needed 4 rails for recreational and competative shooting. So far i havent found a need for 4 rails for my home defense/SHTF AR.
Stay away from UTG and other chinese imports, unless this rifle is a truck gun plinker. The chinese rails are made of very soft aluminum and are typically out of spec.
Modular rails can get a lot done, like the aforementioned Magpul. The magpul forends are lite and magpul makes great stuff. Most of the time you wont need all four full length rails. A top rail is nice for adding a flip up front sight. Other than a top rail, i havent needed 4 rails for recreational and competative shooting. So far i havent found a need for 4 rails for my home defense/SHTF AR.
Stay away from UTG and other chinese imports, unless this rifle is a truck gun plinker. The chinese rails are made of very soft aluminum and are typically out of spec.
kwelz
Member
Overweight, overpriced, often with out of spec rails, and they have a questionable Anti rotation and attachment method.
Not saying they are the worst on the market but they are not worth the money. I can get a Troy TRX extreme for almost the same money and it is a far superior rail in every way. Or I can spend a bit more and get a DD which is leaps and bounds better.
Look at how thin they have to make your LW rail to keep the weight down. it isn't build anywhere near to the level of other rails. Yet it weighs the same or more.
Here is a good comparison chart of rails.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html
The real question has been asked - why rails?
If it's a duty gun that needs a light, a short rail or sight mount is available. Laser? VFG? Really, all that comes on the duty gun issue - if you need it. It takes training, practice, and need to justify hanging two more pounds on the barrel of an AR.
Even Knights Armament, the government contract supplier, is in print and stating there's no reason for any non duty user to need a quad rail. The point of the government buying them is to satisfy a large, diverse user group. It's an institutional, committee answer to attaching all those SOCOM doodads that might be used. The average soldier incountry strips it down to nothing, and wears gloves to eliminate the ladder covers, too. He has to carry it on patrol for long hours, and already has another 80+ pounds to hump. It's not a nice sunny Saturday afternoon on a bench at the range.
If the intent is to improve accuracy by making it a free float, all that does is eliminate sling tension. What needs to be asked is whether it's being used for 1/2 MOA work - does it have a $500 Krieger barrel and $1000 scope? A milspec chrome barrel is 2MOA, and the cost of a quad rail, up to $250, won't ever improve that. It just preserves what it is,from outside influences that make it worse.
The problem is that adding high speed specialty or race gun parts without having all the other related items brought up to standard usually results in mediocre improvements at best. As said, a quad rail starts sprouting things - lights, vertical grips, ladder covers, even bipods. Two and a half pounds later, the result is a gun that can't make it through a weekend carbine course without hanging up in doorways, breaking off parts at combat speed, and having fundamental failures because the internal components were ignored for external dressup.
A simple, quality red dot delivers a lot, note the Army mounts those now. The soldier keeps it working, and the quad rails empty. They attract too much dead weight, and they actually aren't lighter than the same size handguards.
If it's a duty gun that needs a light, a short rail or sight mount is available. Laser? VFG? Really, all that comes on the duty gun issue - if you need it. It takes training, practice, and need to justify hanging two more pounds on the barrel of an AR.
Even Knights Armament, the government contract supplier, is in print and stating there's no reason for any non duty user to need a quad rail. The point of the government buying them is to satisfy a large, diverse user group. It's an institutional, committee answer to attaching all those SOCOM doodads that might be used. The average soldier incountry strips it down to nothing, and wears gloves to eliminate the ladder covers, too. He has to carry it on patrol for long hours, and already has another 80+ pounds to hump. It's not a nice sunny Saturday afternoon on a bench at the range.
If the intent is to improve accuracy by making it a free float, all that does is eliminate sling tension. What needs to be asked is whether it's being used for 1/2 MOA work - does it have a $500 Krieger barrel and $1000 scope? A milspec chrome barrel is 2MOA, and the cost of a quad rail, up to $250, won't ever improve that. It just preserves what it is,from outside influences that make it worse.
The problem is that adding high speed specialty or race gun parts without having all the other related items brought up to standard usually results in mediocre improvements at best. As said, a quad rail starts sprouting things - lights, vertical grips, ladder covers, even bipods. Two and a half pounds later, the result is a gun that can't make it through a weekend carbine course without hanging up in doorways, breaking off parts at combat speed, and having fundamental failures because the internal components were ignored for external dressup.
A simple, quality red dot delivers a lot, note the Army mounts those now. The soldier keeps it working, and the quad rails empty. They attract too much dead weight, and they actually aren't lighter than the same size handguards.
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