Are these the only SAO subcompact autoloaders?

[Mitlov]

Shopping around for a more carry-friendly companion for my 1911. All things equal, I would definitely prefer a SAO trigger because it'll be closer to the trigger feel on my 1911 and my BPS. Are these the only options out there from mainstream manufacturers, or am I missing some?

Sig P238
Sig P938
Remington R51
Kimber Solo

 

[chris in va]

Bit of a stretch, but you could get a CZ Compact with safety and convert it to SAO. I did this with my 97b, wasn't hard. Cajun Gun works has everything you need to convert and he's very helpful.

This is my 97.

 

[ddc]

I don't know if the Springfield EMP is considered a sub-compact but it might work?

 

[BlindJustice]

In the world of the 1911

full size = 1911 5" Bbl.
Compact = Commanderr 4"-4.25"
SUb Compact = Officers frame and 3"- 3.5"

So, add Colt Defender and New Agent

STI makes the Electra, Escort and Shadow
ll with 3.25" Bbl. with alum. frames so they are
in the 23 oz weight range - and STI makes a lot of 3.25" bbl. models with
steel farames

R-

 

[Mitlov]

Thanks for the info! I'll read up on the CZ, Springfield, Colt, and STI models mentioned.

 

[2wheels]

That depends on how you define subcompact, most people would include virtually all 3" barreled 1911s in that definition, of which there are quite a few from most of the major 1911 makers. Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc...

But if you're talking even smaller than that, going down to pocket sized the list does get smaller. You already listed the Sig P238/938 and the Solo, there's also the similar Colt Mustang.

 

[MikeJackmin]

The CZ82/83 is DA/SA, but can be carried cocked and locked.

 

[Fremmer]

What about the sig p220 carry compact SAO? You might want to consider that, too.

 

[BlindJustice]

the P220 Carry is a Compact and gat.

From what the O.P. posted
it seems he is looking at Micros a size under sub compact
.

Rantall

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

I'm shopping for the same thing, makes me ask myself why cant more guns be made SAO.

 

[Bobo]

The Colt Mustang comes in two versions: metal and polymer...

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/Colt380Mustang®.aspx


Bobo

 

[Mitlov]

the P220 Carry is a Compact and gat.

From what the O.P. posted
it seems he is looking at Micros a size under sub compact

I'm not necessarily looking at pocket pistols only. I'm looking at basically everything from pocket to compact, with my ideal size somewhere in the middle (15-20 oz, with room for all four fingers from a very small hand, would be ideal for me), and then I'll narrow from there based on criteria for my particular situation (I'm left handed, so no right-hand-only safeties, etc). But without knowing the total list to start narrowing down from, I'm not doing myself much good.

 

[12Bravo20]

If you don't mind buying used, look at the Spanish Firestar pistols. While not true 1911 pistols, they are very similar (minus grip safety) and can be had in 9mm, .40 and .45. The old Colt Pony .380 was actually made by Star for Colt.

 

[2wheels]

I'm not necessarily looking at pocket pistols only. I'm looking at basically everything from pocket to compact, with my ideal size somewhere in the middle (15-20 oz, with room for all four fingers from a very small hand, would be ideal for me), and then I'll narrow from there based on criteria for my particular situation (I'm left handed, so no right-hand-only safeties, etc). But without knowing the total list to start narrowing down from, I'm not doing myself much good.

Well... Not a lot of guns meet all your criteria that I know of.

Subcompact 1911s can have ambi safeties (or have them installed) and you can get your whole hand on the grip, but they'll most likely all be at least a little over your weight requirements.

Sigs P238/938 fall in the weight range and can be found with ambi safeties (or have them installed), but I doubt you can get all your fingers on the grip even with a small hand. I can't, and my hands are small-medium sized. Similar story for the Colt Mustang and Mustang XSP.

The Kimber Solo appears to meet your criteria, although it's been awhile since I've held one and I don't remember how much room there is on the grip.

The Remington R51 is "single action", but we don't really know how the trigger feels since it's not out yet.

 

[Mitlov]

Yeah, if the R51 was a tried and true design, it might just be perfect, but I'm wary of a mechanism that was invented nearly a century ago and every single manufacturer has declined to put in a production gun from then until now.

Kimber Solo would be another clear winner if it had a good reliability reputation. From what I've read online and from the giant disclaimer on Kimber's page about ammo selection, I'm scared.

Sig P938...if I could get my pinkie on it, it would be great, but I haven't found one in person yet to check it out.

I figure I'll probably have to compromise a bit off my ideal design, but haven't decided whether to get slightly smaller than ideal or slightly bigger than ideal. For now just shooting the full-size 1911 at the range to improve my abilities.

 

[2wheels]

It didn't occur to me earlier, but both the P238 and 938 have +1 magazines available that extend the length of the grip.

 

[cluttonfred]

I think Para Ordnance used to make single-stack and double-stack single-action 9mm compact pistols that might work for you, but I don't see them listed anymore. STI still makes a few, like this one: http://www.stiguns.com/the-sti-shadow/ But they are not cheap.

 

[Mitlov]

Yeah, STI's out of my price range. Sig, Colt, and Springfield EMP are a stretch, but maybe doable. Remington R51 is very comfortably-priced. But regardless, there were a ton of SAO pistols I didn't know existed. Glad this forum is here.

As for hand size, here's my hand with my 1911. Easily room for another finger on the grip (insert Princess Bride joke here), and I'm glad the mag release is on the "wrong" side, because as you can see, my thumb wouldn't reach it for normal use. I release it with my trigger finger. So I'm thinking I might be able to get my pinky onto a grip that'd leave your average dude's pinky hanging.

 

[cluttonfred]

If looking for something inexpensive, you might check out the Serbian-made Zastava M88 9mm imported by Century, basically a baby Tokarev. All steel, so not light, but relatively thin so doable as a carry gun. I have read that they are solid guns once broken in. Classic Firearms has them for $240 includinga spare mag and a cleaning brush: http://www.classicfirearms.com/zastava-m88-c



http://www.classicfirearms.com/zastava-m88-c

 

[Quiet]

The SIG P-238 is a clone of the Colt Mustang.

The Remington R-51 is not a "subcompact". It's a compact sized pistol, similar in size to the Walther PP.

 

[Jim Watson]

The Solo is DAO although a very light DA.

 

[BlindJustice]

Mitlov, any preference on cartridge chambering for the
sub-compact SAO?

R-

 

[cuervo]

Aren't Kahrs considered SA? Or do you want cocked-and-locked capability?
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-MK9.asp

 

[herrwalther]

The lemon-ish AMT Backup had a single action model. About the size of the Ruger LCP.

 

[Mitlov]

Mitlov, any preference on cartridge chambering for the
sub-compact SAO?

R-

All things equal, I would definitely prefer 9mm over 380, because I believe in practicing a lot with what I carry, and 380 ammo for range use is selling for a lot more than 9mm for range use right now. I think the cheapest 50-round box of brass 9mm on cheaper than dirt is a third the price of the cheapest 50-round box of 380. But like with other things, I'm realizing I may be setting up a scenario where no one gun meets all my criteria and I'd have to bend on one thing or another.