Are Wal-mart guns made cheap

[stalkingbear]

I CAN state exactly what an Ruger rep once told me-when they are running 10/22s for example, they run wal-mart only during that run, and quality control goes down some. I have no way of confirming this, other than looking at fit/finish of examples I see at local wal-marts, and even this tells me nothing. How much I don't know, but that means you MAY get totally equal quality, and you MAY NOT. From what I understand, this applies to fit/finish only, and the maximum difference isn't much. I DO know that of different firearms people bring into my shop to return to manufacturer, quite a bit of them were purchased at wal-mart. In final response, I would see nothing wrong with buying firearms at wal-mart IF you be SURE to look it over GOOD before buying it. AGAIN-I have no way of proving 1 way OR the other-merely stating what the Ruger rep told me 1 time on the phone.

 

[wuchak]

I CAN state exactly what an Ruger rep once told me-when they are running 10/22s for example, they run wal-mart only during that run, and quality control goes down some. I have no way of confirming this, other than looking at fit/finish of examples I see at local wal-marts, and even this tells me nothing. How much I don't know, but that means you MAY get totally equal quality, and you MAY NOT. From what I understand, this applies to fit/finish only, and the maximum difference isn't much. I DO know that of different firearms people bring into my shop to return to manufacturer, quite a bit of them were purchased at wal-mart. In final response, I would see nothing wrong with buying firearms at wal-mart IF you be SURE to look it over GOOD before buying it. AGAIN-I have no way of proving 1 way OR the other-merely stating what the Ruger rep told me 1 time on the phone.

If this were true and could be proven Ruger would be guilty of fraud. If Walmart knew they were doing this they would also be guilty. Ruger might produce all the 10/22's for Walmart in a single batch as a means of making packing and shipping easier, especially since there is a Walmart special version of the gun, but they cannot systematically build them to a lower quality standard and call it the same product. I think the rep was blowing smoke.

 

[BENELLIMONTE]

Wallyworld actually has some guns made to spec that are better bargains than other outlets offer. Example is the Ruger 10-22 in Stainless Steel w hardwood stock for around 220.00 I can't find them anywhere else for that price. I also picked up one of the close out Remington ADLs for $ 300.00. It is the most accurate out of the box243 Winchester I have owned. Hope this helps

 

[avpro]

Don't know about Wal-Mart and their guns, but I do know that some big box stores don't get better pricing because they buy in bulk, they actually tell the suppliers what they are going to pay. For example, my brother owns a company that supplies "The Home Depot" with kitchen counter tops. They tell him what they are going to pay. He has no choice but sell to them at that price because the contractors that used to be his customers now buy their supplies from Home Depot. In order to make a profit, the suppliers have to cut their costs. Quality of the product might be one of those cost saving measures. Don't believe me, go to Home Depot and buy and American Standard toilet and then go to a good plumbing supply store and compare the two. Thinner porcelain, plastic vs. brass, etc.. If you buy from a big box store, you take your chances.

 

[Flyboy]

Withdrawn after further research.

 

[BillyBothHands]

I would only worry about this if Wal-Mart started selling Gladware microwavable bolt actions or Quaker Oats Scatter Gun w/Cinnamon grater... But it would be nice to be able to go to the back of the store and pick up a matching toilet seat cover for the Remington

 

[wuchak]

"...Don't believe me, go to Home Depot and buy and American Standard toilet and then go to a good plumbing supply store and compare the two. Thinner porcelain, plastic vs. brass, etc.. If you buy from a big box store, you take your chances."

The model numbers will be different. If they are the same then you have the same fraud scenario that I described before. American Standard, like most companies, makes a range of products from very cheap to very nice. It's no surprise to find the cheaper ones at the locations catering to the DIY crowd.

 

[akodo]

Look at Snapper Lawnmowers. Wal-mart wanted to sell Snapper, but none of the Snapper mowers fit the walmart price. Wal-mart basically told Snapper 'that's okay, we will paint our existing chinese lawnmowers orange, and slap a Snapper sticker on them' This is the same deal the have made with MANY big companies. Snapper is one of the few who backed out realizing that this would ruin their reputation.

I suspect this has also happened with firearms.

I strongly suspect this is how we got the Remington 710

Also, there is the Huffy Bike effect. Walmart made an agreement with Huffy, and used their large size to include some real nasty terms. Huffy made bikes A, B, C, X, Y, and Z. Walmart wanted to sell Z, as it was the cheapest. Walmart agreed to pay $3 over production cost for Z, and would order AT LEAST a large amount, and Huffy agreed to supply them with whatever amount was necessary.

Walmart decided to use the Huffy as a 'door buster' (an item you put in add at no profit, or even a loss, to pull people into the store) But they did it walmart style...on a scale, length, and scope never before seen...enough to directly affect the markets. Walmart has named these 'nationwide yearlong doorbusters' as 'Statement Items' Walmart has done this before with pickles and oranges and a few other commodities.

Getting your product picked as the Statement Item is pretty rare, but whichever producer gets his item picked pretty much gets destroyed.

Walmart requested from Huffy 5 times the number of model Z bikes as Huffy produced the year before. Huffy said they couldn't do it, walmart pointed to the contract.

Huffy was forced to stop making bikes A, B, and C which were much more profitable and redirect those lines to making Bike Z. Huffy also set up a new factory to make more bike Z.

The quality of the original factory bike Z in walmart would be the same as that same bike Z in target, sears, bob's hardware, or wherever.

However, once bike Z production went into 'panic mode' quality control I SUSPECT went downhill. I also doubt that lines/factories A, B, and C were immediately producing as good of bike Z as standard, same with the new factory.

Huffy bike Z got a reputation for having a lot of problems.

I suspect the same thing can and does happen in firearms, ESPECIALLY in 22LR firearms.

No, wal-mart is NOT able to make it's profits by it's ability to buy in bulk. It makes it's profits by forcing a company to move overseas and utilize cheap labor and make inferior product that the US consumer assumes is the same.

Now, in these same overseas cheap labor markets, Walmart is pushing down labor prices. China has a minimum wage of $56 per month, except Walmart is allowed to go as low as $32 per month with a nod nod wink wink. Also, there have been some reports that as in china you are paid by the 'day' not the 'hour' that days in walmart are equaling 14 hours vs the standard 10.

I've heard the talk of 'oh, your car is a lemon...it probaby was made on a Friday!' I imagine that in ALL products, including guns, that comes into play. However, I suspect that everything produced at around hour 13 of work for the day is not going to be of the same quality as at hour 6.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I have also found the same to be true with

Home Depot and other "big box stores." You try to compare apples with apples, so to speak, and you can't because they don't sell the EXCACT same thing as in other stores (in various brand names, not all brands).

For example, I purchased two Hunter Ceiling Fans at Home Depot. I had a problem with one of them and I looked online for parts for that particular model mumber. The EXACT model was nowhere to be found on the entire Internet, using several search engines, including Google.

I even went to the Hunter Web Site and the fan was not listed anywhere in their comprehensive listings of ceiling fans.

Finally, I called Hunter to get the problem resolved (the fan would not switch to high speed and low/medium speeds were slower than the other identical ceiling fan I installed in a very large room - two identical fans installed about 12' apart from one another).

Hunter asked me the model number and when I told them, they said they couldn't help me. When I told them I purchased them at HD, they said Oh, hold on just a minute. Then they came back and found it! Then, after describing the problem they mailed me a new part (that they thought was the problem).

When going to install the new part, I discovered that there was a loose wire nut to one of the wire legs to the part in question. I re-spliced the wires and installed new wire nuts and then the fan worked just like the other one.

This is not the only time I have found this to be true. I find .22 and .38 bullets packaged differently for WalMart and if I try to find the exact package online or at other local stores, no go, I can't find the same thing anywhere else.

Someone mentioned in another blog that they had purchased some centerfire ammo (pistol bullets, if I remember correctly) and out of one or two boxes there were several primers that were set sideways and various cases were crumpled to the extent that they could not chamber the rounds. Their conclusion was "do not use WalMart ammo as DEFENSIVE LOADS when your life depends on them!"

My point is that the suppliers APPARENTLY DO have different model makes exclusively for WalMart and the other BBS's (Big Box Stores).

I also happen to know several people who work in these Big Box Stores and they have all told me the same thing. Their store sells inferior products which are either "thrown together" and/or have inferior parts. These "stories" aren't just made up. People are smart enough to realize when a product is made cheaply or is downright defective -- compared to that same product when the product is made properly through-&-through.

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html here you can see what walmart does to its suppliers. now if you have an FFL buying a rifle for $400 and walmart buying a rifle for $300 who is going to get the crappy rifle?

 

[Tommygunn]

I was once told by a gunsmith (who ran his own gun store and could be said to be biased) that gun manufacturers do make different grades of weapons and high output places like Wal Mart got the inexpensive version and places that deal with guns more exclusively got the better.
It wasn't a matter of the cheaper ones not shooting well -- he claimed they were both the same in that manner -- it was how nice the exterior finish was done.
Now, I am not claiming that this is really true.

I do know I bought a '30-06 Remington 700 at Wal Mart back when I worked there and it was every bit as nice as any other 700 I'd seen elsewhere, plus I got the employee discount!
In any case if Wal Mart has the gun you like, and you agree to the price, I see no reason why you shouldn't buy it there. It will be the same thing you get elsewhere.

 

[akodo]

Home Depot and other "big box stores." You try to compare apples with apples, so to speak, and you can't because they don't sell the EXCACT same thing as in other stores (in various brand names, not all brands).

this is absolutely correct. a BOX may have the same model number on the outside, but you can actually have multiple products with the same model number.

We all know you can't just compare two different "Remingtons" because of different models. You also can't compare two different Model 1701-AX, because they may not actually be the same.

You want a true 'apples to apples' comparison? Write down the UPC "Universal Product Code" barcode number, it will be 12 digets long, but you only need to record the last 4. Alternatively (especially for electronics) turn it over. There will be a little label with the M/N (model number) followed by P/N (product number) and PID (Product Identification Number). Just because you have the same model number doesn't mean you have the same product. To compare, make sure product numbers match

 

[devildog66]

That's right. All WalMart products ESPECIALLY ammo is inferior to the more expensive ammo elsewhere and no one else should ever buy WWB .45 ACP so that I have a steady supply of less expensive range ammo, err, I mean, because it is sooo inferior.

I would be wholly unsurprised that WalMart has firearms models that are unique to them just as Sears Roebuck had back in the day. But that would not remotely make them inferior or a lesser quality. That said, just stay away from that inferior .45 ACP ammo.

And I'm Joe Isuzu...

 

[Onmilo]

Being in and about the business of selling and repairing guns for the better part of thirty years now, here is my take on the big Wal-Mart question.

Prior to Wal-Mart going huge and ordering guns by the boxcar full from manufacturers there were already efforts being made to cheapen American made firearms to allow them to remain cost effective and viable to American buyers.
Winchester pre-64/post-64 is a good example of this trend.

What the Wal-Mart buying did was to accelerate this process.
Cases in point,
Mossberg 500 pre Wal-Mart,
All metal trigger housing. safety button, higher quality metal finish, Walnut used on all but Military/Police guns.
Post Wal-Mart, plastic housing and safety, thinner metal finish, hardwoods and synthetics (plastic) abounds for furniture.

Remington 870
Pre-Wal-Mart, all metal safety and internal components, high quality metal finish, hand fitted actions, walnut stocks.
Post Wal-Mart, enter the "Express", Plastic trigger components, plastic safety that acts as a locking feature, thin, sometimes painted appearing finish, hardwood and synthetic (plastic) stocks.
Same with the semi-auto guns and many of these cheaper components have now been incorporated into Remingtons regular production lines making the guns cheaper to produce but the manufacturer did not reduce the prices of the top of the line products, they actually increased the proces to make up for losses incurred through selling to big box stores at cut rate prices, a marketing decision that very nearly caused Remington to file bankruptcy.

Winchester Pre Wal-Mart
Walnut stocks, high quality metal finish.
Post Wal-Mart
Hardwood and plastic abounds, guns lose even more appeal to American consumers than they did post-64, sale of the company to an off shore buyer, ultimate closure of a gun manufacturer that had been in busiess for nearly 150 years.

Do manufacturers make guns cheaper for sales to Wal-Mart?
Nope.
They now make the guns cheaper and sell them at premium prices to all areas of the gun trade.

 

[mr.243]

it wouldn't be a crazy idea that they would use cheaper wood for stocks. it would just save the company some cash.

 

[Loomis]

If they do walmart only runs at the factory, then there will be differences. They may not be substantial differences, but there will be differences. The difference may not be enough to justify the price difference between walmart and other shops, but there will be differences.

 

[Sniper X]

Rust, I agree with you completely. I could not see any difference between the Buck General, or Ranger I bought from a couple of them I have had since the 70s. I also only saw a difference in the sheath on the General since it came from Wal Mart. The Ranger came from Sportsmans and had the leather sheath. I must say, both new Bicks seem to be just as high quality as their 1970s counterparts! Good tyo see a comapny with so much company pride and respectability in these the days of cheaper is better.... I commend Buck to no end!

 

[Nevada Buck]

Wally Mart

It has been my experience that gun manufacturers will "get rid of" guns that have flaws if the flaws are not too noticeable rather than eating the expense of remanufacture or naming it a second. I have taken in several like that and one good example was a Mossberg 12 a customer brought me because he said he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. I looked down the barrel and where the Rib was welded to it there was a tit hanging down from the top inside causing damage to the shot and to fly all over the place. I did a complete remake of this particular gun as he wanted to use it for card shooting but many times there are flaws, although not noticeable, have a decided effect on the way it shoots. Some let it go as they feel they are just bad shots and never bring it to light.

 

[expvideo]

I CAN state exactly what an Ruger rep once told me-when they are running 10/22s for example, they run wal-mart only during that run, and quality control goes down some. I have no way of confirming this, other than looking at fit/finish of examples I see at local wal-marts, and even this tells me nothing. How much I don't know, but that means you MAY get totally equal quality, and you MAY NOT. From what I understand, this applies to fit/finish only, and the maximum difference isn't much. I DO know that of different firearms people bring into my shop to return to manufacturer, quite a bit of them were purchased at wal-mart. In final response, I would see nothing wrong with buying firearms at wal-mart IF you be SURE to look it over GOOD before buying it. AGAIN-I have no way of proving 1 way OR the other-merely stating what the Ruger rep told me 1 time on the phone.

I would be willing to bet that the rep didn't really know what he was talking about. I highly doubt he has ever even spoken with someone from quality control for their company, and it is probably as much of a rumor there as it is here. I doubt anyone but the CQ reps and the very upper management actually know for a fact, but since their business, like any other gun company, is based entirely on reputation and not on advertizement, I highly doubt they would risk that to save a few dollars per rifle.

 

[Dravur]

Woohooooo

Another Wal-mart Thread

 

[akodo]

I CAN state exactly what an Ruger rep once told me-when they are running 10/22s for example, they run wal-mart only during that run, and quality control goes down some. I have no way of confirming this, other than looking at fit/finish of examples I see at local wal-marts, and even this tells me nothing. How much I don't know, but that means you MAY get totally equal quality, and you MAY NOT. From what I understand, this applies to fit/finish only, and the maximum difference isn't much. I DO know that of different firearms people bring into my shop to return to manufacturer, quite a bit of them were purchased at wal-mart. In final response, I would see nothing wrong with buying firearms at wal-mart IF you be SURE to look it over GOOD before buying it. AGAIN-I have no way of proving 1 way OR the other-merely stating what the Ruger rep told me 1 time on the phone.

If this were true and could be proven Ruger would be guilty of fraud. If Walmart knew they were doing this they would also be guilty. Ruger might produce all the 10/22's for Walmart in a single batch as a means of making packing and shipping easier, especially since there is a Walmart special version of the gun, but they cannot systematically build them to a lower quality standard and call it the same product. I think the rep was blowing smoke.

I can totally believe it. One thing walmart does is always push for lower prices. I can definately see in negotiation where walmart says "Last year we bought them for $120, this year we want them for $116" to which Ruger says 'no way we can go that low!' Walmart says 'you sure?...let's take a look. Is that barrel band really necessary? You dip them in blueing 4 times, what if you only did it 3 times?....and here, you Quality Control guys are only finding 1 error per 1000, you got 3 guys doing QC, obviously with that low rate, these guys for the most part find nothing all day long, run your numbers with 1 less QC guy."

 

[BeltfedMG]

All this from the same intelligent people who told me my HK sear is illegal and 30 yrs in prison and $300,000 fine.......There are some gulible ignorant people here. Funny to sit back and watch as you know it alls come up with these "Heard from a gunshop dealer", "knew a guy whos cousin worked for Ruger" and all the other crazy **** you come up with. Keep them going, were almost at 4 pages, i bet we can go to 6 pages of nonsense.

 

[hak]

mikepgs said: "I don't see why they would go and make an entirely different batch of guns with different specs just for Wal-mart. I mean I know they're a huge chain but making separate runs would probably negate any benefits they would get from selling to such a huge distributor."

i used to think the same way. then i saw what home depot did with some Milwaukee tools. i buy Milwaukee, Bosh, or Makita (best of each continent in my mind). some other contractor on a job site saw the plastic molded case on my heavy duty 90 degree drill and asked if it was a home depot drill. me: "yes" his reply: "then it's crap."

so i checked. the Heavy Duty tools are the same (90 degree drill, v28 lithium cordless drill and sawzall, my 12amp rotating super sawzall) but Milwaukee /does/ make some cheappy versions of their non lithium battery 3 pc sets. i found them and held them, they felt like ryobi's non lithium (not green/silver) ones, the blue yellow ones. no magnesium and steel, plasticky.

so, i've seen a good brand make a 'cheaper version' to allow another 'demographic' to afford their products via a bigbox. did it handle like my v28 drill, nope. do i see it lasting as long as my v28 drill? nope. would it cheapen the brand IF these fail like the cheap ryobi? yes. but, was it < half the cost? yup.

but i've learned my lesson. buy a good tool once, or cheap tools over and over. so it may not be rifles.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

This is truly ridiculous. I am shocked at how many people believe Wal-Mart is making/selling some chinese version of the same American guns... It is funny though.

 

[Duke of Doubt]

They did it with ammo and denied it until they were forced to admit it (yet still instruct their employees to deny it). They do it with all manner of other products -- lawnmowers for example. So why wouldn't they do it with guns?

BTW, nothing "fraudulent" about it. Deceitful, maybe.