Army adopts new 5.56mm round...

[SSN Vet]

this from Fox news...

Any one have any specifics on this? Is the bullet available commercially? Any knock off loads out there?

http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2010/06/02/military-tech-action/?test=latestnews#slide=1

New Rounds for Army Rifles
June 23: A new round replaces the current M855 5.56mm cartridge that has been used by U.S. troops since the early 1980s. The M855A1 offers a number of significant enhancements: improved hard target capability, increased dependability, consistent performance at all distances, improved accuracy, reduced muzzle flash and a higher velocity. It's tailored for use in the M-4 but also improves the performance of the M-16 and M-249 families of weapons.

 

[NG VI]

The fact that they gave it the nomenclature M855A1 really says a lot to me, and makes me think that this is the case. It's probably that "SOST" round, the one that's Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw that the Marines just recently adopted to some extent.

 

[janobles14]

was gonna say that the bullet did look different. reminds of me of the bear claw or a partition with that seperate nose on it. makes the hard target capability more understandable. i wonder if they are using some new powder or blend though? anyone got any low flash high velocity powders on the brain?

 

[NG VI]

OK just saw the picture and it is not the TBBC, Army wanted lead-free. Whatever, our solid copper bullets usually exhibit pretty above-average performance. The SOST would have been good though and cheaper to boot. And I've never heard of lead from projectiles causing health or environmental problems before.

Check these out-

http://proceedings.ndia.org/0610/10169.pdf
A document reviewing the M855A1 process and results

http://www.defensereview.com/u-s-ar...o-warfighters-m855-ball-ammo-gets-an-upgrade/

Interesting Defense Review article on it.

 

[M1key]

The M855A1 looks like it has a ballistic (?) tip.

The SOST...

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

I served early 70s in SE Asia war games, not familiar if the Geneva Convention rules still apply as far as bullets, what is the current rules on ammo nowadays?

 

[atomd]

The Geneva convention has nothing to do with bullets. Everyone seems to think it does though. It has to do with NATO and the Hague Convention. There are many myths about what we can and can't use.

 

[Hatterasguy]

So the followed the Marines and went with SOST round?

I hope they start dumping M855 on the market. I'm a buyer for 5 cases at $200 per thousand.

 

[HorseSoldier]

So the followed the Marines and went with SOST round?

No. I'm out of the loop on new ammo developments these days, but looking at pictures of SOST versus M855A1 it's clearly not the same thing. (And SOST is already type classified, I'm not sure on why Big Army would renumber it in any case.)

 

[Owen]

SOST and M855A1 are totally different.

 

[Tirod]

The M855A1 is has a formed boat tail jacket, uses bismuth-tin alloy in the bottom, which is closed, and a steel penetrator tip. It is not open tip, but uses the technology to make the jacket. Closed bottom boat tail jackets are generally more precise, the bismuth will rear load the bullet weight for accuracy, the steel penetrator tip does do that, and the stacked construction should help fragmentation. The steel tip should also deform less in loading in automatic feed firearms, unlike open tips or soft points, which get damaged and create more flyers.

Note, it's green because Congress told the Army it had to be.

The Marines aren't the Army, they have different needs, and the SOST does that. If they did exactly the same thing, what point would there be in having them? They are onboard Naval vessels, too, and those requirements have to be considered. Army, not so much.

Anybody want to tell a Marine he's no different than a Army grunt and basically interchangeable, you go right ahead.

 

[kludge]

So you chop off you barrels and then start complaining about the bullet performance? Is that about right?

 

[CathyGo]

I can see this performing a lot better in the 249's. We'll just have to see if congress hasn't picked something else to make "green" to the detriment of the soldier.

They chopped off the barrels because a short barrel works better with the kind of house to house fighting and clearing that we do. Accuracy at the edge of it's range can be sacrificed to some extent. Mounted crew served or the individual soldiers skill come in at that point. We still qualify at the 300m distance with same accuracy as we did with the longer barrels. It all comes down to the soldier knowing their weapon.

 

[alsaqr]

So you chop off you barrels and then start complaining about the bullet performance? Is that about right?

By golly, you've got it. Some of those barrels are just over 11 inches long. There's lots of noise and muzzle blast and little action 200 yards down range.

 

[sonier]

This always seems to be the armys approach, the M9 beretta had issue with standard 9mm rounds and the army had to make the cartridge lighter in performance to function for the M9, same thing here the M4s we got over there have such short abrrels dont matter what they do its going to be innacurate, instead of fixing the problem they try to work with the problem, same thing with the darn humvees.

 

[Jubjub]

Looks like the core is half steel, half bismuth alloy.

 

[Jim Watson]

Post on Glocktalk says they have changed the base plug material but not to what.

It ought to be a good penetrator as long as it does not skip or tip on a hard target.

 

[SSN Vet]

So I'm guessing that these will not be available to the civilian population as it is an armor penetrating round.

Yes???

 

[WardenWolf]

AP ammunition is available to civilians. Just not in pistol calibers. However, don't expect to see it any time soon, as it is a new round and there is no surplus available yet.

 

[cuervo]

The M855 is not armor piercing, it is considered a penetrator round and is widely available.

Whether the -A1 will be considered AP or also a penetrator round is up to whatever powers that want to keep it out of our hands.

.223 is not available in AP since there are .223 pistols on the market.

 

[RP88]

it doesn't seem to be a fully steel core, so I doubt they will be able to interpret it as armor-piercing by their own rules. However, the day the ATF plays by their own rules instead of changing them to some hypocritical and redundant nonsense is the day Satan rents a pair of skis. I wouldn't even want to know what would happen to the new "lead-free" tungsten bullets, etc. under something like that.

Even then, it is pretty much designed to do the same thing as several other bullet constructions out there - all of which probably cost less.

I served early 70s in SE Asia war games, not familiar if the Geneva Convention rules still apply as far as bullets, what is the current rules on ammo nowadays?

It banned hollowpoint, explosive, poison, chemical-releasing, and collapsing/flattening bullets.

It does not mention fragmenting or AP rounds. To include fragmenting bullets would really screw things up since most bullets in some way or another will fragment when they hit the human body the right/wrong way.

 

[BWB]

Information I've seen indicates the bullet is now solid copper behind and around the hardened steel penetrator.
The tin/bismuth base plug was the cause of the initial problems (heat related) that caused the redesign and year plus delay in issue.

 

[strambo]

same thing here the M4s we got over there have such short barrels dont matter what they do its going to be innacurate

Huh
This ammo change has little or nothing to do with accuracy, but terminal performance in both tissue and against barriers (oh, and no lead for Congress ). Furthermore: short barrels are usually more accurate since they are more rigid.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

And higher velocity...


The latest powder technology finally makes its way to men and women serving our country...this is good news (my son just enlisted in the Marines)

 

[HorseSoldier]

This always seems to be the armys approach, the M9 beretta had issue with standard 9mm rounds and the army had to make the cartridge lighter in performance to function for the M9, same thing here the M4s we got over there have such short abrrels dont matter what they do its going to be innacurate, instead of fixing the problem they try to work with the problem, same thing with the darn humvees.

Military 9mm ammo isn't downloaded. Given the way it batters the living hell out of M9s if you shoot them a lot, it probably should be, though.

My issue M4A1 with an ACOG and good ammo (Mk 262) would ring the bells on steel chest plates at 600 meters with such regularity it was pretty boring after the initial cool factor wore off.

Agreement on the mods to the humvee, though -- an up armor with all the extra bells and whistles installed gets claustrophobic even before you start trying to load a few guys stuff into it. Of course, up armors aren't the only vehicles we've fielded since someone realized that bullet proofing and mine proofing soft skins was a pretty good idea.