at school yesterday

[Bartholomew Roberts]

i dont even own a 20 gauge anymore long story short i am not aloowed to carry ammo in my truck it is against the rules they say now does this fall under the 2nd?

Even if the Second Amendment meant you could walk down main street with a loaded M16 that the government had given to you to keep at home, the school would still be entirely within its rights based on current law.

You have very minimal protections from the Bill of Rights as a student. You do not receive the same protection that would be accorded to an adult and the current courts give schools a GREAT deal of leeway in violating those rights to make sure schools are safe and secure.

 

[belton-deer-hunter]

well the way i look at this is that i am not only a student but also a 18 year old U.S. citizen and therefore i have the same rights as everyone else if the government says i can own a gun i can have it in/on my own property the school doesn't own my truck they should have m\no say so over what is in around or on my truck and since the school is funded by the government then they should have to follow the same rules.


p.s. if worse come to worse i will jsut switch to bows for a while nothing says i love you like a broad head

 

[MrTwigg]

Sorry, I did not “Rant” , as you say.

rant : verb speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way. : noun a spell of ranting.
-DERIVATIVES ranter : noun.

MrTwigg,

I don't understand your rant?

Are you saying education is important but recognizing
"rights" are not?

I guess you just don't understand since you don't live
in a place like Texas. I graduated from HS in 1981,
after receiving a great education and having carried guns to school.

I wrote a concise, clear, succinct commentary. For further clarification see the post by Bartholomew Roberts directly under yours.

The recognition of rights is paramount in today's society. So is education.
I can understand the stated point of this thread being a "Rights" issue. However, that is not what I commented on.

Although I don't live there, I have been to the Great State of Texas several times, for business and for pleasure. Fantastic place with a rich history in this countries’s development.

As you seem to encourage my comment on the question of a possible second amendment violation I will comment on the general view of this thread.

Yes, at 18 one is considered to be a minor and as such has fewer expressed rights under modern law. However these same laws give minors a “protected status” and preferential treatment for a number of potential violations. Several other members have voiced similar opinions here.

No, this does not mean a minor is not a citizen.

The real issue in debate seems to be if a post consisting of a 256 word run on sentence fragment and a 156 word sentence fragment followed by a 101 word sentence fragment “sound like bull to any of yall?”

Read the entire thread, not just my post. It’s apparent the general opinion does indeed think it sounds like bull !


Excuse me, I’m gonna go shoot something now so I’ll feel better. :banghead: I’ve been wanting to pattern my BPS 10 ga.. Turkey season’s coming up soon.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Thank you Bartholomew and Mr. Twigg,

Those were the points that I was trying to make; however, my eloquence may have been circumvented by my passion and for that I apologize. I do agree with Card, my youthful exuberance can get the better of me at times, but if it weren't for this, what would be the point of being young? Anyhow, I will defer to the statements made by those older and wiser than myself, but please do not discount my opinions simply as the rantings of an uninformed youth. For what I have said, while exaggerated by my enthusiasm, echos convictions that I hold dear.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I think some on here are too quick to knock public schools. Do you really want to live in a country where only those that can afford to pay can get a good education? If so there are alot of them out there. As for the school having the right to search and seize, it does not matter if we agree with it. It is something we have to respect. I do not like paying taxes either but I know it is something I have to do. Part of life is learning to respect certain rules. If we teach children that it is okay to disregard any rule we do not personally believe in then what are we really teaching them? When you are at school do not take firearms or firearm accessories with you. If by some chance you do by accident then admit your mistake and accept the repercussions. Do not become indignant about it and try to lay the fault on the rules themselves. Taking responsibilty for your own actions and abiding by rules you do not agree with (as long as they do not pass into tthe excessively oppresive range) is an exercise in character. I would hope that people that feel themselves "one of the good guys" would find upright character an important trait. It might be nice to teach our children ourselves if we do not like public schools, but in reality who has that kind of time. And do we feel that we have the qualifications and knowledge to give them the same advantages an organized, time tested education can give them? Or are we sitting them up for a life of trailer living and digging ditches? I can sum it all up in two statements. First, get everything you can from your education. If this means having to follow some rules do so. Second, put our personal ingignities and bruised social attitudes aside for the sake of our children.

 

['Card]

PP: "Do you really want to live in a country where only those that can afford to pay can get a good education?"
Of course not, but I wouldn't mind living in a country where the tax dollars I contribute to the general fund are used to provide my children with a quality education, instead of indoctrinating them in the current over-hyped 'fad of the moment' concerns of the school staff and administration.

Contrary to what you appear to believe, the two (public schools and a quality education) are not mutually exclusive.

Hell, my oldest son is 18 now and he'll be graduating from High School this year. In spite of 12 years of science classes of one sort or another, the kid probably couldn't define osmosis for you - but by God he can name every animal on the endangered species list. Seriously. Have you looked at a science textbook lately? These kids aren't getting taught science at all anymore. They get 12 years of environmentalist propaganda shoved down their throats.

My youngest son? He'll be homeschooled. I used to think that sort of thing was only for religious whackjobs and survivalist fruitcakes, but at this point I'm convinced that in spite of the expense and the inconvenience, it's the only way for me to make sure my kid doesn't end up brainwashed and ignorant.

 

[belton-deer-hunter]

PlayboyPenguin i dont want you to think that i am trying to skip punishment on this the punishment was already handed down and served so i jsut bit my tounge and did what had to be done but that still does not mena i have to agree with the rules.

 

[belton-deer-hunter]

PlayboyPenguin i dont want you to think that i am trying to skip punishment on this the punishment was already handed down and served so i jsut bit my tounge and did what had to be done but that still does not mean i have to agree with the rules.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

[quote='Card]Hell, my oldest son is 18 now and he'll be graduating from High School this year. In spite of 12 years of science classes of one sort or another, the kid probably couldn't define osmosis for you - but by God he can name every animal on the endangered species list. Seriously. Have you looked at a science textbook lately?[/quote]
Yes, when I graduated my teaching fields where k-12 general sciences and art and I have kept myself current on the curriculum in public schools because of my niece and nephew. I hate to break it to you but osmosis is covered. Endangered species if metioned at all is in passing. Your son, like anyone else in the public school system, will get out of it what they are willing to put into it. It comes down to increased effort equals increased return but I guess it is easier to blame the schools. I graduated from public school and went on to graduate from college with honors. My cousin was home schooled and is unemployed for about 6yrs now. I wpould suggest that you get more involved in your public school system and really learn what is going on there. That is if you are not already since I do not know the level of your involvment. I know most parents I dealt with thought their involvment should be limited to coming down and yelling when they felt their child was taught something they did not personally believe. Join the PTA, volunteer for trips and socials, help as a teachers aid, etc. I hate it when people just believe what they hear on righty radio or fox news and then want to blame the schools when their children fail to strive. The people that work as teachers are heros. Plain and simple. They do a hard job for almost no pay and then have to be blamed by both the right and the left for being too far center.

 

['Card]

My wife is a teacher, in a public school, and a damned good one. Spare me the grandstanding and the pontification, OK? I know what parent involvement is. I know what the curriculum looks like, and since each state and even each county has their own curriculum, I might even know more about what my kids are exposed to than you do - although I realize that entire concept makes you uncomfortable.

I know the kinds of obstacles that the administration, political system, and lousy parenting throws into the mix to interfere with my wife doing her job, and with my kids having a positive learning experience.

So having seen all of this, up close and personal, as both the spouse of a faculty member, and the parent of a child (neither of which being positions or perspectives that you hold yourself) I have decided to pull them both out of any involvement with the ongoing, unmitigated disaster that is posing as a public school system.

So, would you like to tell me again that I don't know what I'm talking about?

 

[Correia]

Not even addressing the issues of rights for minors, 4th amendment issues, or even public schooling, I do have to say one thing.

I totally agree with Mr.Twigg's opinion about belton's writing.

Damn, boy. That is possibly one of the hardest to read posts that I've ever seen on the internet. And that is saying a lot. For the love of John Moses Browning, learn to use punctuation.

Nobody will ever take you serious in life if you can't communicate. If you sound like a yokel, don't be surprised when you're treated like one.

 

[MrTwigg]

In closing,

Thefabulousfink, 'Card - your postings on this thread as well as others have been both articulate and passionate.

I doff my Stetson to you.

belton-deer-hunter, I know I went off on you but please continue to improve your education. Life will be much less of a struggle. There is more to life than hunting and guns. Find balance.



Oh yeah, I need a tighter choke. Back to the range tomorrow.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

'Card, I am not attacking the job your wife does or your son. I am very willing to listen to where the curriculum of your school is lacking. I am not becoming defensive or angry and I do believe I clearly stated that I did not know the level of your involvment in your son's education. What do you do to be involved? You said your high school age son does not understand osmosis. I would be willing to bet that was covered. As for lesson plans being different from state to state I think most requirements are federally set now as part of the un-funded, so called "No child left behind" act. I seriously doubt class time was spent on teaching what animals are endangered. I would love to know what class that was and see the class description. I am just not a fan of blanket statements being used to slam public schools. I think alot of people out there better wake up and realize how lucky they are to have them and the teachers that work there.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

V4, I agree with you on marrige, for know anyway.

Belton, use punctuation. Park somewhere else.

Now for the searches, their unreasonable. Children should have the same rights as adults.

 

[TallPine]

Do not become indignant about it and try to lay the fault on the rules themselves.

The school rules about "weapons" today are ridiculous. A car itself is a deadly weapon, not to mention tire changing tools which could be used in a violent manner if a student were so inclined. And they make a big deal about ammo or a knife in a tackle box ...

Out here where kids may have to drive 25 miles to school (one way) it is common to carry lots of tools. I suppose a screwdriver or crescent wrench would also be considered deadly weapons and grounds for suspension/expulsion...?

 

[gezzer]

Duh bad spellin and aaaaall I beat you to retirement by 1 year And don't live in MA

I like taking spelling and grammar nazis to task.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

well the way i look at this is that i am not only a student but also a 18 year old U.S. citizen and therefore i have the same rights as everyone else

You are free to look at it any way you please; but that isn't the way the law looks at it and it won't be the way the legal system treats it if you decide to live by your interpretation.

 

[trickyasafox]

yea i know that school ordinances against such things can get you in some hot water. any firearm related paraphinalia was grounds for expulsion in my upstate NY HS. other districts may have been more forgiving, i don't know.

remember: you do check a fair few of your rights at the door as soon as you enter school grounds. the ability to search you and your property increases exponentially under the guise that the school is working for the greater good of the student body. they can sensor what you wear, what you say, what you write, and what you have in your pockets.

im not looking to get flamed, just pointing out the reality of HS, i graduated in 03 so im not too far removed from it.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

I must be lucky.

My Grandpa has a scrapyard by my high school. Its just a short 10 minute walk from the scrapyard to the school.

Thats where I'll park.

 

[50caliber123]

You want to talk about getting in trouble for something stupid, this happened my senior year of highschool. I had a Chevette, a small car with a hatchback. You could see anything in the hatchback's rear window. I'm very aware of rules that schools have, and never leave guns or ammunition, or knives, for that matter, in my car. I do leave targets, and I liked to save old ones that I was proud of, like real nice groups. One day, about 11AM, an office atteb=ndent shows up in my class looking for me. I am "needed" down in the office. Apparently, someone saw the paper targets, which are merely orange and black bullseyes, in my car, with the bullet holes in them. I was told that I had to surrender my keys while they searched my car (1987 Chevettes are too ancient for the police lockpicks, apparently). They found nothing else, but I was told that I am violating school rules by having pieces of paper that have big circles and bullet holes in them in my car. They confiscated my targets and told me not to bring targets to school ever again. I was unhappy. Since when are those bullseye targets a threat to school security?

 

[dzimmerm]

Run for the local Board of Education

If you want to effect changes in your local school get yourself nominated as a candidate for the local board of education.

Most Boards of Education are composed of want to be politicians who are using that position as a stepping stone to local and state government offices.

If you actually had a Board of Education composed of 20 somethings then the schools in that district would be quite interesting. .

In the past most 20 somethings don't want to be part of the system in order to change it. By the time they become 30 or 40 somethings they have probably lost the fire to change the situation. 30 and 40 somethings have also lost the recent experience of what the current schools are like.

Just my $ .02 worth.

dzimmerm