ATF Agents at the Gun Show Today

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alohachris

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I went to the Crossroads of the West Gun Show today in SLC, UT. Three BATF agents were there, they were manning a table with literature on Federal law, "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" pamphlets, etc.

I've never seen them at a gun show before, but I've haven't been to that many. Is this a common occurrence?

I wanted to ask them where the "gun show loophole" was so I could take a picture of it :evil: but then my sense of self-preservation kicked in.
 
I wanted to ask them where the "gun show loophole" was so I could take a picture of it but then my sense of self-preservation kicked in.
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I would have asked that one! What are they going to do, arrest you?
 
They are at almost every gun show around here, usually in REALLY obvious plainclothes.

A few years back, between them and local law enforcement, they had so many marked cars in the parking lot that people coming to the show thought something bad had happened and just left. The gun show promoter filed a complaint to Congress, and I seem to remember the congressional response was pretty scathing to the ATF.
 
I've seen the most obvious Feds walking around trying to act like they're just 'normal guys' out to shop at a gun show in Reno last year. For an organization that manages to get undercover agents in such intense places (Hell's Angels), they clearly don't use their starting string at gun shows...:-/
 
I've seen 'em. Always one standing by the weapons check table and usually a few milling about on the floor.

Plenty of Sherriff’s deputies around too.
 
At several Richmond, VA shows in the past, the ATF had a booth with free donuts. Agents wondered around in pairs wearing ATF polo shirts and khakis, unarmed.

I did not detect any hostility toward them. A lot of folks took the time to talk to them to ask question.

In a sense, having them there lends a sense of legitimacy to the shows.

The one's I worry about wander around in disguise trying to bait folks into doing something illegal. This can't happen if they are in 'uniform', unless somebody is really stupid. At that level of stupidity, good riddance.
 
No they are usually in plainclothes in the parking lot asking you if you want to buy a 25$ Drop in auto Sear.
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Wouldn't that be entrapment? Coaxing someone to break the law?
 
They're at the shows here in Lexington too. They were rolling their eyes at the lady who kept touching off a stun gun a few aisles over when I saw them.
 
It's only entrapment if they try to encourage or force you to commit an illegal act. If they just offer it for sale it's not. I think the analogous case law here that I personally know of is Hampton V US, where a DEA agent with tract marks tried to buy heroin and the defendant claimed that his appearance and attitude made him look like an addict. The court had none of it because he was "predisposed to sell heroin regardless". Their argument would be that if you agreed to buy it from a BATFE agents, you would have bought it from a normal criminal too, and they would 1) be right and 2) win.

Now, if they tried to create a situation in which you felt like you didn't have a choice, or if they gave you all the parts to make a full-auto weapon and then arrested you for doing so, that is entrapment.
 
off-topic, but I'm too curious:

chuckusaret - what does ATF do on a boat in FL? Is he going after gun-runners to South America?
 
Mr.Davis said:
They're at the shows here in Lexington too. They were rolling their eyes at the lady who kept touching off a stun gun a few aisles over when I saw them.
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Maybe they would have prefered she buy an "assualt rifle" instead of a mere stun gun.:rolleyes:

Last gun show I went to here had State Police, lots of them too. Yup I also did suspect some guys in plainclothes of being LEOs. I got a few inquisitive looks as I browsed, got uncomfortable and left. I didn't see anything I wanted there anyway. I buy all my stuff at FFL gun shops most of the time. I thought it was annoying. Those guys should stay at the door and get TFO the show floor. What about a "Legal Right" is too vague here? I sometimes feel like LEO sometimes focus resources into the totally wrong places. How many legitimate arrests have occurred at gun shows? No-one has straw-buyer written on their forehead anyway, and LEO presence wont deter them. They already know its illegal and chose to do it, and only they know what they are doing.
 
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I'd rather see ATF doing this kind of stuff (education) then hassling people in general.
One of the major problems we have as gun and Second Amendment enthusiasts is "Straw Purchasers". Some folks may do these kinds of purchases because they're ignorant of the law and repucussions (to the pro-rights movement).
Other buyers, of course, know exactly what they are doing. These are the people we need in jail.
 
In most cases the tables are manned by ATF Industry Operation Investigators who used to be called inspectors. These guys have no arrest powers. These are the same guys and gals that do the FFL inspections. ATF has been doing this for at least the last five years. As others above have posted they are trying to educate the public and thats a good thing.
 
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