Autos?

[JShirley]

What I am saying is that comments like

My belief on switchblade laws that they provide law enforcement with another tool to get dangerous people off of the street

seem to give at least tacit, and perhaps even explicit approval for at least some weapons control laws.

And that is a dangerous thing from an ally. Why not just use other actions of "dangerous people" to get them off the street? If they are dangerous people, they must have done something...so why are they "on the street"?

 

[mercop]

Autos are fine as rescue knives, for rescuing other people. They are usually activated by a button, a button that when your heart rate is over 160 BPM you will not be able to feel. At this point you experience vasoconstriction or the pooling of blood into the thoracic cavity. One of the effects of vasoconstriction is the loss of dexterity and sensitivity in your fingers.

They also require an extreme grip change between the opening grip and using grip.

Now I think OTF autos are just kewl as hell and was gifted a microtech. It serves no purpose other than to show it off.

 

[The Tourist]

they must have done something...so why are they "on the street"?

You do know you're talking to a biker, don't you?

What you call the act of "peaceful assembly" is applied to us as "loitering." In many jurisdictions our very rags are illegal. Did you ever get arrested for wearing a New York Yankees T-shirt? Depending on who I park my bike next to, I could be tried--and convicted--under RICO.

If I went to class at the UW, I was a "Badger." But if I put on my rags to leave a class, I was a thug. And on, and on, and on...

The truth is that the definition of "law abiding" changes from LEO to LEO and from moment to moment. Like it or not, that Kershaw can get you busted.

 

[hso]

The lynchpin of the assisted opening knife defense is the wording of law, stating "a button on the handle." Obviously, a Kershaw, for example, has no button on the handle. But it does fall under the wording, "or some other device." This is my point, a torsion bar is a spring.

This is a common misconception.

It's important to read all of the law.

For WI -

Wisconsin - 941.24. Possession of switchblade knife. (1)
Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports,
purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a
blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other
device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or
movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor...

Ok, so the requirement is that the you press something in the handle. Every auto has something "in the handle" that you have to press to trigger the blade release.
No assist has anything in the handle to press to release the blade. Every assist has to be opened with a thumb stud on the blade, flipper on the blade, saucer on the blade or something on the blade. Not the handle.

Why?

Because the two guys that came up with the idea did so because they hated the switchblade law (Blackie and Ken hated it it enough they invented a new mechanism.). Why did the manufacturers adopt their designs? Because they had their legal staff and outside consultants and Washington State and New York State wrote opininions that the assisted opening mechanism did not meet the definition of a switchblade under the law.

Any knife can get you busted. The arresting officer applies the law, or misapplies, as they decide to. The DA interprets the law and brings charges or not. The perception that an assist is a switchblade is incorrect under the law, but the same error made here gets made by officers and prosecutors and requires us to work to change those perceptions.

Luckily there are two organizations that are working to help protect our rights in this area.

American Knife and Tool Institute has been around for nearly 10 years. They're viewed as the "NRA for knives".

Kniferights has been around for only a couple of years, but they're much more in your face than ATKI.

Before you give up hope, look at what the two organizations have accomplished. California law that specifically excludes one hand openers from classification at switchblades. This sets a precedent for all other states. Florida law that specifically excludes switchblades from classification as ballistic knives, also setting a precedent for all other states. Arkansas law that removed 3 1/2" blade length from weapon classification. Court briefs and expert testimony that have gotten charges dropped and cases thrown out of court on their technical merits.

Can you be arrested for having the "wrong" knife on you? Sure you can. What's the "wrong" knife? Any knife the officer wants to say is wrong. That's why we need organizations like this.

 

[The Tourist]

Any knife can get you busted. The arresting officer applies the law

Exactly. Unfortunately, I believe that jurisdictions are going to crack down on semantics in their way to "close loopholes." To many, an assisted opening knife is a loophole.

If you really want to bend your noodle, check the legalese spelled out in the "exemptions" portion of the law. Read about how "common carriers" are exempt in their normal course of business. Additionally, it does not spell out hard and fast limits on how switchblades can be transported.

I talked to an anti-switchblade LEO one time in a spirited debate. (BTW, most LEOs are bored to tears over having to act like they oppose autos. All of the ones I've met loved playing with them.)

So, this anti-auto cop and I debate, and I show him my cutlery resellers license. Clearly, I'm legit. He nods. I proffer that handling, sharpening and repairing all knives is covered under the terms of my license. He nods. I further add that switchblades are knives, and included in the classification of "all knives." He nods again.

Then I close the deal. I tell him that I'm a proven common carrier, licensed to do business, and exempt from the beginning in statutes covering switchblades knives. And within that exemption, the only stipulation is that I do so "in the regular course of business," no parameters on modes of carry. Yikes, I sell to cops.

I reach into my sharpening case, take a brand new switchblade out of a box, and right in front of him clip the knife to my right front pocket. I ask the LEO honestly if he can arrest a common carrier doing business.

Despite his desire to prove me wrong, he admitted that under statute, I had broken no laws.

 

[hso]

To many, an assisted opening knife is a loophole.

And they'd be wrong, but that won't stop some from thinking it is.

You walked the officer through the letter of the law. He admitted that his original position was incorrect, but that doesn't mean that he has to be comfortable immediately with giving up an idea he'd "know" to be true for however many years. He might grudgingly admit that you were correct. He might parse the situation so that you, or someone exactly in your position, were the only one little bit of ground he'd give in his mind, but you showed him his previous "reality" was incorrect. Perhaps he eventually accepted all of your argument, both intellectually and emotionally. Perhaps not. But his prejudice was eroded by your logic.

Assisted openers have been challenged as switchblades more than once already by local legal officials. So far logic has ultimately prevailed when it's happened, but not without a struggle of some sort. Luckily, most DAs and AGs at the state level have already been approached by the manufacturer's legal teams to get a clear ruling that assists are not autos under the definition.

 

[The Tourist]

approached by the manufacturer's legal teams

Yes, I remember when the first bit of trouble hit Michigan, and Ken Onion himself got involved in the case.

(He stated that the idea for assisted opening came from an old oil can from the 1930's that could flip open. His idea had no connection to switchblades, at all.)

My fear is this thing we call "the doctrine of the reasonable man." In other words, when presented with evidence, what does the reasonable man think?

More than once, when I have flipped open my wife's Boa, some one in the crowd has commented, "I thought switchblades were illegal."

To most folks, even people who like guns, a knife that "pops open" is a switchblade.

The logic escapes me. If a switchblade is dangerous because of the speed at which it can be produced to cut, then a fixed blade knife must really be dangerous! No matter how fast a switchblade opens, it cannot beat the time of knife that doesn't need to open.