AZ Pima County Sheriff thinks little of 21 yr old students

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swifteagle

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Arizona Pima County Sheriff Dupnik thinks that 21 yr old & older ADULT students are not intelligent enough to be able to tell the difference between a murderer on a murdering rampage shooting at every unarmed innocent student in sight and one or more armed students shooting at the murderer on the rampage. Below is a link to my response to his opinion piece (quoted & linked to in my response)

http://dustinsgunblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/many-anti-gun-folks-think-21-year-old.html
 
This is the part that I find funny... ". . . if more than one student has a concealed weapon, how is it possible to determine which individuals are involved in the attack and which ones are trying to stop it?"

When have the cops showed up and ended one of these shootings? I liked your reply.
 
How do cops do it then, given that the average level of education and intelligence among cops is lower than among 4 year college students?
 
"How do cops do it then, given that the average level of education and intelligence among cops is lower than among 4 year college students?"

yea? i worked 7 different colleges didn't see that

now were you to say that 4 year college students "think" they are smarter, that i would agree with
 
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Arizona Pima County Sheriff Dupnik thinks that 21 yr old & older ADULT students are not intelligent enough

Well, he certainly is entitled to his opinion. Without data and research it is just that - worthless.
 
Look, a cop's off-the-cuff opinion about other people is probably the most biased opinion possible.

I can't blame cops for it, either. Their job involves dealing with people who are the most violent, stupid, irresponsible, and/or crazy *******s in our communities, every shift.

If you hauled a few carloads of belligerent drunk college students to the holding tank every Friday and Saturday night, would YOU be very comfortable with their carrying concealed firearms? I mean, on principle, you'd probably support it, but deep inside, you'd cross your fingers and pray nobody innocent gets hurt.

That, though, is why cops' opinions should not be taken as the end-all when making public policy decisions. Sure, the City Council or whoever should listen to a cop, but no more than anyone else.
 
But the point is that they CAN carry concealed, just not on campus. As far as I know, there aren't many bars or liquor stores on campus, so all of these drunks are off campus, where they are legal to carry. This is the stupidity of the point these types of people make. Why is someone so much more dangerous just because they are on a college campus? ANd why is their life so much less valuable?
 
I hate to ruffle anyone's feathers so right off the bat let me state that this is my opinion only. Now, that said, Having lived very close to ASU for several years my observation of the average 21 year old college student today is this, most of them can not even be trusted to blow their own nose with out their mothers help.
 
I could say the same about most career age and older adults. Just today I helped an older woman (grandparent age) learn how to use a card swipe at walmart. put down the damn paint brushes and prejudices.
 
So let me sum up the above arguments.
An 18 year old can vote, go to war and die for his country, buy cigarettes (but not beer), legally marry, go to federal prison and engage in contractual obligations. 21 year old changing tires/flipping burgers/selling retail widgets/etc for a living is more capable of being responsible with handgun and is more likely to meet the state qualifications for a CHL/CWP than a 21 year old in college??

Someone help me clear up the logic here...
 
I hate to ruffle anyone's feathers so right off the bat let me state that this is my opinion only. Now, that said, Having lived very close to ASU for several years my observation of the average 21 year old college student today is this, most of them can not even be trusted to blow their own nose with out their mothers help.

No worries, my feathers are in no way ruffled. That said I would like to point out that we are not talking about arming all of the 21 & up ASU students. Only the 21 & up CCW permit holding students that already carry guns everywhere else they go - crowded shopping malls, movie theaters, park playgrounds where children play, etc. They have had the full FBI & State Police background check including fingerprint database search (Not the instant background check), gone through the required training, passed the written & shooting competency test, paid all the money for the above (how many irresponsible students are going to want to spend hundreds of dollars to go through the CCW permit process when they can use that money to buy many kegs of beer?)

We're talking about a small minority of Arizona residents & students - roughly 1 to 3 out of 100 AZ residents on average depending on the area & demographic. Not sure what the average out of 100 would be for College students, but it would probably be similar if not less.

Also remember that placing a "gun free zone" sign up at a college does not make it so. Gun free zones are nothing but a Utopian pipe dream invented less than 20 years ago & now well proven to be a fallacy. Disarming law abiding citizens when they cross an imaginary "gun free zone" line in the sand does not make the law abiding citizens who cross it safer. The only people safer by that futile policy are the criminals, rapists, & mentally unstable. Anyone willing to go on a murdering rampage or willing to rape female students is not going to care about a stupid "gun free zone" policy.
 
Maybe he is esentially saying "I want only cops and bad guys to have guns, that way, when I roll up I can assume anybody with a gun and no uniform is a bad guy and ventilate him with extreme prejudice. Takes less thinking on my part"
 
I love this forum, You clearly state that it is your opinion and your opinion only and before the ink drys posters start questioning your intelligence, legal birth status, and the ability to go potty by your self. At least Swifteagle gave some valid reason for his disagreement with my opinion with out getting too personal. Maybe it's true what they say, people in Arizona are smarter, better looking and show much more courtesy and class.
 
Maybe he is esentially saying "I want only cops and bad guys to have guns, that way, when I roll up I can assume anybody with a gun and no uniform is a bad guy and ventilate him with extreme prejudice. Takes less thinking on my part"

So very true - it is possible that the Sheriff was thinking along those lines. Any officers ignoring the standard rules of engagement & thinking like that would be bound to eventually shoot an undercover or off duty Police officer or armed citizen.

Regardless I do think it would be safe to say that most armed citizens or undercover or off duty Police officers would still be willing to take the risk of being shot by such an officer vs sitting back & allowing a murderer to continue his or her murder rampage unchallenged.
 
...But the 21-year-olds are intelligent enough to use a firearm to fight and die in a war to protect his freedom to say they're not intelligent enough. :barf:
 
HERE IT COMES FOLKS!!!

I'm 22. I just graduated college last may. I carry a gun (when legally allowed to; not often these days) did so in college (not on campus, state law in FL) still haven't shot anyone, gotten drunk and shot beer cans, or earned a criminal record for alcohol related, gun related, or any other reason. So why is it that my peers and I get so little credit. Seriously, you old timers who think you're so superior to us young'uns oughta stop flaming us for what a few idiots do. Thats the same logic that says all gun owners are crazy maniacal school shooters, that all "minorities" are dumb/criminal/etc, and that women can't shoot guns. Its all prejudice and as I see it, has no place on The High Road.
 
Have I been in cave lately.....I don't seem to have heard any comments from Maricopa sheriff Joe Arpaio. ASU definitely falls within his territory.
 
Good point ttinlv. I live in Sheriff Arpaio's county - I'll drop him a line & ask him what his viewpoint is. Normally he's rather conservative on most issues, and certainly was elected primarily by a conservative base so he might be in favor of the bill if for no other reason just to avoid upsetting his supporters. Not that all conservatives are pro gun nor that all liberals are anti gun. Just a general tendency that I've noticed. :)
 
ASU, Arizona State University, comes under the State, not Sheriff Joe. The ASU Campus cops are considered part of the Department of Public Safety ( State Police ) . The Maricojpa County Sheiff Departement can not even go on champus with out permission. Sad but true.
 
Just wrote a letter to the editor, maybe it will get published...

In most states, a period of firearms training is required before
concealed carry permits may be issued, pending criminal background checks and a
final review by the Sheriff for quality control of the applicants.

However, If the Sheriff is concerned with young adults in college
being armed, who are "Inexperienced" with firearms, then he should at the very
least allow young adults in college who are "Experienced" in firearms to be able to carry
concealed firearms.

There are plenty of off duty or former Police Officers getting their degrees in Criminal
Justice, plenty of returning Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Sailors using their GI Bills, or ROTC cadets who have had practical firearms experience enough to understand basic rules of engagement, and basic firearms tactics. The quality and quantity of firearms training possessed by these "Students" may even rival the training received by the deputies the Sheriffs Office would send to respond to an incident at the University.

If the Sheriff doesnt want to see the average college student on campus armed,
as is their Constitutional Right, then he should atleast allow those
students with exceptional firearms qualifications to be armed on campus, in order
to respond to those criminals who dont give a darn about campus firearms laws,
and who take advantage of a wholly unarmed populace upon whom they vent their
mayhem.

"Americans [have] the right and advantage of being armed - unlike
citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with
arms."- James Madison

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson in "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its
own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there
are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the
path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good
men with rifles."- Col. Jeff Cooper
 
It's better if we just let the rampage shooter kill unimpeded, until he runs out of ammo, or real police arrive so they can wait for the shooting to stop before they go in

There, I fixed it for you.
 
Clarence Dupnik is being a politician; saying what he thinks the liberals want to hear. The regular cops like the idea of armed/responsible citizens who are willing to help stop crime such as shooting up a campus or mall.:cool:
 
Starship1st said:
Clarence Dupnik is being a politician; saying what he thinks the liberals want to hear. The regular cops like the idea of armed/responsible citizens who are willing to help stop crime such as shooting up a campus or mall.

Yes, the best response from Pima County voters would be to vote him out of office on the next election. Also contact him now letting him know why he will no longer be receiving your support. :)
 
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