Backpacking gun ????

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The 10mm in a Glock 20 sounds good since you are used to carrying a G22. You likely won't have to get more 10mm ammo when you are out in the boonies but it may not be found in every small gun shop.

If you took your G22 it likely wouldn't be difficult to find ammo should you need to get more when out in the boonies. If you got a .357SIG barrel for the G22 you would have a little flatter shooting load. You could take along the .40 barrel should you have to get ammo out in the sticks.

Below is some info on the .357 SIG from different Glocks I posted to another thread on THR.
-----
Here is some data from the Glock Annual '99, article "Glock's .357 Trio", page 80. It gives some idea of the effect of barrel lenght when using the .357SIG.


G31, barrel 4.49 inches
G32, barrel 4.02 inches
G33, barrel 3.46 inches

G31 Cor-Bon 125 gr 1431.2/586 velocity/energy
G31 SpeerGD 125 gr 1378.8/527

G32 Cor-Bon 125 gr 1402.4/546
G32 SpeerGD 125 gr 1355.8/510

G33 Cor-Bon 125 gr 1350.2/506
G33 SpeerGD 125 gr 1278.2/453

Rich
 
Is there a .357SIG load made for bear?
If the largest thing you would have to fight your way away from is a black bear, you should be good with the .40. I would load it with FMJ bullets because I am not sure a JHP would penetrate far enough every time.
I don't know, but that is what I would think.
Also, if you go with the revolver, I would load the shotshells last if at all. If you need them, you will already know that there is a snake there. It isn't like you will have to fast draw against a snake.
I will admit that I have never backpacked in the Sierra Nevada mountains. My experience comes from being in the woods of PA ever since I was old enough to sneak away from my parents.
In that time, I have carried guns such as a 10/22, a .45LC, 9mm, 12GA shotgun, an AK, and a Mosin Nagant rifle. I have never once in those 15 years needed one of those guns.
This includes several close encounters with bears and snakes.
If they are just doing their thing, then I let them be.
But that doesn't mean that I ever go without one of those guns either. ;)
An ounce of prevention...
 
The .357SIG with solid 125gr bullets should penetrate pretty well. Maybe better than a .40 S&W solid. Neither is ideal for black bear. The 10mm is better.

I think it is highly unlikely you would need to shoot a bear when backpacking in the Sierra. There are bear up there. They will go after food. Usually people bring along special containers for storing food at night. The bears may well try to get at / get into the containers. If you do shoot a bear up there someone will likely find out and I'm sure there would be a big enough stink that you would have wished you had let the bear chew on your leg.

It's a nice feeling to have something with you but you will not be in an envirnment that is all that gun friendly. The trails are filled mostly with people who live in the big cities. Not gang bangers, but quite a few Sierra Club types from the big cities. Most of them are nice people out on the trails.

My experience in the high central Sierra has been you find more strange people when you are within a couple of miles of a road. The farther you back in you are on the trail the people are usually not the type who cause problems. In the high Sierra the people you meet are other backpackers. Maybe if you are hiking in the western foothills of the Sierra you would run into bad guys doing something illegal.

Rich
 
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I was always taught that a handgun is for fighting your way to a long gun. We are not backpackers but my wife is an ultradistance runner who altitude trains in the mountains. We camp and hike a lot, and hunt in wilderness areas. I see a few backpack hunters, and they seem to manage with both camping and hunting equipment, including cold weather gear. Over the years, we and our acquaintances have had some experiences with black bears and lions. Because the animals around here are hunted and remain “wild,†they are usually more afraid of us than we are of them. All of the situations have been resolved without any harm to people, and only one animal has been shot. (It was a mountain lion that jumped on the back of the deer the guy was stalking. He had a license for the lion, and it was in season, hence, the shot.) My wife usually carries a Glock 27 when she trains because she is trying to keep the gear weight down. However, we have come to the realization that encounters are not that uncommon, and we don’t feel as comfortable as we once did while roaming around alone with just handguns. As for me, I now prefer to carry a 6-1/4 pound .308 and 15 rounds than a 3 pound handgun/magazine combo, but it’s partially because I may get a shot at a coyote.

If you are going with a group and you aren’t quietly sneaking around or imitating prey, there is little likelihood that you will have to defend yourself from a critter. But, if you ever do cross paths with a critter with an agenda, a handgun is not confidence inspiring, whether it’s a .40 or a .44. From your list, I would skip the J frame and probably pick the Glock 20 or 27 with a spare high cap magazine or two, and the hottest penetrating ammo you can find. Bear spray is a good, if not a better, idea for critter protection. Good luck with your decision.
 
The first choice you have to make is ...


... do you want a revolver or an autoloader for a "backpacking gun"?

I really consider the two types of handguns to be "apples and oranges," so comparisons between their respective calibers (357Sig vs. 357 magnum or 10mm vs. .44 mag) is pointless. For me, it's an either-or proposition.

Having said that, if it's got to be a revolver, I'd go with a 4" .44 mag, because out in the deep dark boonies it's going to be more versatile, given what you might encounter, than a .41 mag, although the latter is what I'd prefer in other circumstances.

In autoloaders of reasonable size and weight - and you've expressed an interest in the G-20 - the only serious choice for protection when camping or backpacking, or for "back-up" when hunting, is something chambered in 10mm Auto. No doubt whatsoever.

Since you've specified its role as protection when backpacking, you want easy portability, and the G-20 with its polymer frame is going to fit that role better than, say, an all-steel 10mm S&W, Colt DE or Tanfaglio Witness (not knocking any of these).

I'd load a G-20 up with 10+1 (or, if you can access some prebans, 15+1) of Texas Ammo's 10mm/200gn XTP-HP load (doing 1250fps/694ft-lbs), along with a couple of spare mags of the same.

If I were intent on hiking into known bear country (large black bears or Grizzlies) and couldn't take a rifle, I'd load up with TA's 200gn FMJ-FP (same velocity as the XTPs). (TA uses Hornady's 200gn 10mm bullets).

http://www.texas-ammo.com

Good luck.

HTH. :)
 
Having been in those mountains, and having been roused out of my tent at 2:00am by a bear, then met a bear attack victim the next day, I would go for at least a .357 with hardcast bullets. I will often have a Colt Defender with me.

When the Model 329 PD comes out, I will likely get one of those...250 Keith bullets at 1200 fps should be plenty stout at both ends.:D
 
Dialing in from rural Montana... first THR post! Very cool forum!

Anyhow....Until you whip out a handgun 'hunting caliber' and are sneakin' up on a target the only thing you will be shooting on the trails effectively with a handgun is gonna be aggressors of the bipedal type, so your daily carry is all you need.

Lone_Gunman is correct... most people killed in the back country are killed by other people, next to accidents.

Shooting a bear is just not realistic...

Q: If a badguy can cover 15 yards in 1.5 seconds how fast do you think an attacking bear is gonna cover forested terrain?

A: faster than you can whip any pistol from a fanny pack and get a bead on it. Not to mention, if it is charging the head is the last thing you want to shoot at. read: thick skulls.

And, whoever said bears aren't tenacious has it backward... Fight cats, play dead for bears.

Last word: Urban people mentality does not apply in the wood.

OK, sorry to be preachy on a first post... wher did i put my manners? I'll be back when I find them. I am a nice guy... really. :D

Cheers!

T
 
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I pack the Stanaslas Natl Forest

I usually hike with a staff. I also have a California CCW. Nothing visable, but I have a couple of mouseguns, one of which will be along for the ride. Having never seen either cat, bear or poisonous snake in my wanderings, my main motivation is protection against 2 legged predators. Seen LOTS of them - fortunately, 6' 190lbs and packing a quarterstaff, I haven't had to
pull a gun on anything;)
The main thing is not to look or act like 'Food' - to anything.:cool:
 
Many don't seem to understand the need here - this isn't about actually killing bears and mountain lions, it's about FEELING like you COULD kill a bear or moutain lion in the extremely unlikely event that this were necessary. :) Here at our computers most of us recogize that bears, mountain lions, snakes, and 99.9% of people pose no danger to us. BUT, at 2:00 AM in our sleeping bag 20 miles from the trailhead, when we hear something big moving around in the alders near our camp, that handgun next to our flashlight makes it a little easier to roll over and go back to sleep. I don't need a 3 lb .44 magnum to go back to sleep - a 14.5oz J-frame .357 is sufficient. The same applies when we see the ocassional bear on the trail (and they don't always run away at the sight of a human).

Of course, it never hurts that this "need" gives us gun enthusiasts an excuse to research, discuss, and buy one or more additional firearms :).

Doug
 
This will depend on what you want protection from. If bears are on the list I'd go for the 629. If its only snakes and such, I'd go for a .22 revolver. In general I'd take a 3" Smith M60 in .38 Special with adjustable sights, great general purpose gun. If size and weight weren't a problem I'd take a 4" Smith M19.
 
You are probably more likely to have problems with other people than from animals.

If there ever was a time NOT to carry a five shot revolver, this would be it.

You may need to shoot at longer distances, and you are probably more likely to have multiple assailants in the parks than on the street.

Personally, I would prefer a hi cap 9mm to a 5 shot 357 or even a 6 shot 44 mag.

Best choice though would be the Glock 20 or 29... you have hi capacity, and a good round for man and beast.
 
"...you are probably more likely to have multiple assailants"

Not trying to be arguementative (really), but can anyone here remember a backpacker being attacked by more than one or two assailants? I can't. Not many gangs of criminals hanging out in our wilderness areas, living off the land, waiting for the opportunity to rob people who aren't carrying money or valuables or rape hairy muscular women who haven't showered in days. :)

Honestly, I don't rememeber hearing of backpackers being attacked AT ALL by ANYONE while in the backcountry. That's not to say that it doesn't happen (I haven't researched it at all), I just wonder if we haven't all become a little brainwashed by what we see on TV and in movies.

I do personally know someone who shot black bear in "self defense" (actually, it was more "camp defense" - they had packed into the Marble Mountain Wilderness, with young children in the group, and a bear repeatedly entered and tore up their base camp. After chasing it away numerous times only to have it return, the bear was dispatched with a single .22 bullet to the head - from a handgun). This ocurred roughly 30 years ago.

Doug
 
DougB,
I think one of the biggest concerns with people out in the wild (in groups) that is as Lone_Guneman mentioned, are the marijuana "plantations" that are more numerous than I'd wish to believe.....I dont know much about the terrain or if they around that part of CA......but maybe thats what he was thinking about....some of the people who do that are less than friendly about their cash crop being discovered or disturbed.......
you do raise a good point but i wanted to put in my .02
BSR
 
There are some devious characters on these trails. Fugitives from justice often seek refuge in these camping areas away from civilization and law enforcement. There were a couple of hikers murdered on the Shenandoah Trail last year in Virginia.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...node=&contentId=A13442-2003Feb2&notFound=true


While attacks are rare, you can only depend on yourself for defense. I like carrying more ammunition in case I need to give a distress signal or need to frighten a curious bear. I have been very close to bear in the wild with only a bow and have never been truly concerned, but I've never run across a "mama bear" with her cubs, either.
 
I would think the dope groves would be closer to a road as opposed to a two day hike from civilization. Why should they pack out the proceeds when there are so many places where it can be trucked out.

The long distance shot would be useful in hunting but in self defense you could easily find yourself facing murder charges regardless of the threat.

There was a cougar attack in Big Bend National park about a month ago, it pulled the guy down, bit his leg, he hit it in the head with a rock and it broke of the attack. Hunters brought in dogs and tracked and killed it. It was an old female in extremely bad shape, one of the trackers said if it were in good shape it would have never tackled a human.

I have prowled a lot of wilderness area's with nothing more than a Beretta Tomcat or a Rossi 68S 38 spec. and have never been the slightest bit worried and have never had my camp invaded by anything other than raccoons. Camp hygiene is very important, and most badguys wouldnt tackle someone if they thought they were going to get a 22lr in the gut, to easy to find some one who looks more like prey.
 
You guys have never heard of backpackers being attacked by other people?

Wasn't there a series of murders within the past few years in Yosemite? I think a group of 3 women were murdered then.

Also, I have heard quite a few stories of people attacked on trails in the Appalachians. I don't have a catalog of attacks, but I certainly have heard reports over the years.

I can't recall a specific episode where more than one attacker was involved, but if you are 20 miles from the next town, you better be prepared for that possibility. 911 won't work.

I suppose I used a bad term when I mentioned "longer ranges". By that, I mean longer ranges that might be encountered in most urban ccw settings. I am not talking about 50 yd shots by any stretch, but outside it would seem likely that the distances involved might be longer than the 7 to 10 foot average commonly referred to in urban settings.

If you are on the trail you are on your own. No police, no 911, no one to possibly come to your aid, no ambulance to rush you to the hospital if you do get shot. The bad guys know this too. I am totally fine with carrying a J frame for most ccw situations, but just wouldnt do it in an isolated setting.

I guess part of my concern comes from an incident that occurred to me in the mountains in N. Georgia shortly after getting married. Wife and I were hiking, totally unarmed (this was in my young and stupid days), and upon returning to our automobile, which we had parked in the middle of nowhere, found 3 kind of rough looking guys milling around checking it out. Nothing happened, but it was an uneasy situation, and I couldnt get out of their fast enough. It was very remote, and if they had decided to make trouble, there was damn little I could have done to stop it, and no chance anyone else would have been there to intervene.

I certainly believe you are more likely to be killed by a person than a wild animal, at least here in the south east.
 
Lone_Gunman:
"You guys have never heard of backpackers being attacked by other people?

Wasn't there a series of murders within the past few years in Yosemite? I think a group of 3 women were murdered then."
---------------

I think the three women you are talking about were killed in the foothills outside the park. The killer also killed a female park worker. I not sure where he murdered her but I don't think it was on a trail in the high country. I believe he was a handy man at some hotel, which is where he captured the mother, daughter and friend of the daughter. That may also have been where he captured the park worker. It is too bad one of the women didn't have a gun.

The major trails along the Pacific Crest of the Sierra are much different than hiking along a trail in the lower foothills. About the only people you find along the Pacific Crest are backpackers. IMHO, I think it is highly unlikely you will run into a "Deliverance" situation along the Pacific Crest. But... maybe the lower foothills. :D Here piggy.

I don't think the person starting this thread ever mentioned what part of the Sierra he planned to do his backpacking.

I would like the see the laws changed about when and where you can carry a handgun in the back country.

Rich
 
Actually the 3 women killed were abducted from the national park hotel or lodge by an employee of the national park concession taken about 20 miles from the park and killed. Dont know if a gun would have helped as I remember it was reported as him saying he was a maintnance man and would ask about a problem reported in their unit and as soon as he was in arms distance he would sucker punch them hard enough to disable or knock them out. I think it was Yosemite but could be wrong. I have heard that Yosemite is now crowded to the stage of almost needing a holding pen for arrestees after a summer weekend.

With the change of range I would say you are within reason of what could be considered self defense.

Like you I have run nto people on the trail who looked suspect, but then realized after 3 days without a bath I too looked pretty suspect. I agree it never hurts to be prepared, but I feel that sometimes ( I have also been guilty of this) we get carried away with the what if's. If someone is going to travel by foot for a couple of weeks, carrying everthing you need, the weight of a Glock and a couple of mags will seem like 20lbs by the end of the first week.

Personally I wouldnt hike in an area that I knew would bring trouble with 2 legged predators and if there was better than a 50/50 chance of having trouble with 4 legged predators (recent spate of camp raiding by bears/ bear advisory on a trail) then I would probably pack a Ruger Blackhawk in 44/45 or preferably a slug gun.

Probably the biggest problem will be similar to what happened in the Texas hill country a few years ago. The Gaudalupe river is a haven for tubers and raft. A couple of young city toughs set up shop at a low water crossing demanding a toll to anyone trying to portage. It appeared to work as most of the floaters had had a little too much to drink. That was until a couple of off duty state troopers came floating down. Threats were made, guns and badges came out. A cell phone call was made and a game warden and tow truck arrived to haul off the two doofuss'es and their car and the troopers went on with their journey.

Gerald
 
Jato;

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, and it's going to count a lot, is what is your physical shape? How much packing have you done?

I'm also checking in from Montana, I do backpack with my family, & I'll tell you straight up that if you're not used to exertion at altitude, you're in for an education. If possible, do an exercise routine that leaves you gasping & your muscles on fire, then as quick as possible, go to the range.

A long time ago I met Mr. Bear at "Jeez you stink" range. Did I shoot? Hell, no. I & my friend left him alone & he was kind enough to reciprocate.

What you carry might vary a great deal from what I do in exactly the same place & time. Why? 'Cause I've lived my whole life in the mountains, alpine ski, ride enduro up here & things like that.
My leg strength & heart/lung capacity will almost certainly be different from yours.

If you're not acclimated to the mountains, I'd recommend the lightweight .357 & one reload, max. If you are truly a mountain person, then carry what you want.
900F
 
S&W 329OUCH. How fast is a follow up shot?

If you are going to use lighter loads you may as well carry a differnt gun.

Rich
 
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