Bad Gun Handling

[DustyGmt]

Just going to share a quick story that may just impart a little added caution to those who wish to give a gun to a relative with good intentions.

My mother has never been much of a gun friendly person but over the years I've heard her describe situations where she thought she might have felt more comfortable had she owned a gun.

For a while she was meeting people pretty regular on craigslist/facebook to buy different odds and ends, furniture, toys for the grandkids, etc... So to cut the story a lil short, me thinking she ought to feel safe and have some means of defense when she's meeting strangers, going on walks, hikes etc... I gave her a revolver. I told her not to carry it until we got a chance to shoot it together and could take the proper time to show her safe gun handling and so on.

Anyway, we go to my makeshift range and I show and tell her all the safe handling stuff, and I forget exactly what prompted me to put my hand up so as to signal for her to stop for a second while she is halfway through a six round cylinder. She sees me throw up the time out signal and she, obviously thinking I was referencing some problem with gun, tips it straight back, hammer cocked, finger on the hair trigger and looking straight down the barrel.

I felt like all the blood had been sucked out of my body and I was very scared in that moment. As soon as I could take control of the situation and make the gun safe I kind of snipped at her. She knew it was unbelievably dumb but at the same time I felt at fault. I dont know exactly what I could have done to prevent it as we went over the safety talk beforehand, what I think it all boils down to was just a stupid life threatening mistake from someone inexperienced with guns and my inattentiveness to some degree or another.

I was so nervous from that incident that I didnt let her keep the gun. I got a sense that maybe my mother just shouldn't have a gun. I want her to be safe, but I also dont want her or someone else to be less safe because of the gun and I dont know if some people are ready to put the thought or time required to safely carry. I think some people dont understand that you dont just buy a gun, stick it somewhere and when the need arises you'll just magically know what to do with it. Some may disagree with me, but something about that incident was like a wake up call for me. My hands start sweating whenever I think about it. I think she might believe I over reacted and am making more of it than I should but I just dont want to be responsible for what could happen from being nonchalant with a firearm.

Maybe I'll try again but only after a good amount of time at the range if she can demonstrate safe handling and control. I now feel strongly about this in terms of, if you want to give your wife, girlfriend, mother, sister or even a guy who is inexperienced a gun, spend some time with them first and dont just give them a gun and assume that after a 5 minute lesson they will be good to go......which I guess is kind of what I did. I'm certain most people don't need to be told that but, idk. Lesson learned.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Some people don't have the acumen to handle firearms. That's OK. There are many other types of self-defense products that can increase their safety without the fatal mistake possibility of firearms.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

That's scary.

I went shooting with my dad once and when we were done we both sat down to clean our guns. I was cleaning my second one and my dad was reassembling his. I hear him talking through it, he thinks out loud. I looked over at him just in time to see him pull the trigger to ensure function, with it pointed directly at me.

To say I was a little mad is probably an understatement.

All safe handling rules are critical, but I feel taking your finger off the trigger and muzzle direction have to come first.

 

[Obturation]

Muzzle dicipline is #1. All other rules pale in importance in my opinion, reason is ,if its pointed in a "safe" direction finger on the trigger although not great , is not as critical, knowing your target and whats beyond it though important would mean if the target is not in a safe direction your muzzle shouldnt be on it, treating all guns as though they are loaded is just another way of saying point it in the correct direction. While they are all very important, if you follow the most important rule the others fall into place, trigger finger position becomes a muscle memory automatic response which i have found is the toughest for a novice to break but if its not pointed at anything or anyone it would be of secondary concern. Just my opinion, and yes, i follow all conventional rules as well as a few of my own. I stress muzzle direction above all others with the novice and have a couple buddies that have shot for years and have the worst muzzle ediquette you have ever seen. I dont shoot with them anymore. Safety first.

 

[DustyGmt]

I have a couple buddies that have shot for years and have the worst muzzle ediquette you have ever seen. I dont shoot with them anymore. Safety first.

I have a few "buddies" who I flat out dont trust with guns. They drink, they rattle off 20-30 rounds out in the woods with no skill or accuracy goal and think they can impress people like they are "knowledgable gun guys" and have seen them try to "teach" girls they're with that they're trying to impress about guns, etc... I cant be around people who drink as it is because I hate to be the only responsible party to a bunch of people with wetbrain, add a gun to the equation.....later man

 

[film495]

Mace spray in a lipstick sized canister is a good option for a lot of people. I keep some in my auto just to have it when on the road.

Honestly, I appreciate your sharing this story - and have only let a few people shoot any of my guns, but they are all people who own their own guns already, and shoot them, so - they've gone down the path of learning and worrying about accidents and all that on their own. Handing one to a new shooter - I think I would want them to shoot a .22 rifle first, with me sitting next to them, so I could grab the firearm if they did anything odd. Many people I would just never even let hold one, just based on personality and attention span.

You and your Mom are extraordinarily lucky. Count your blessings and just get her a couple canisters of pepper spray.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

Why is it that its almost automatic to look down the barrel to see if somethings wrong? Boggles my mind!

 

[MedWheeler]

Something similar happened when I introduced my then-wife to shooting back around 1989 or so. We went "out west of town" where I always shot, toting along a Ruger 10/22 and a Mk-II pistol. The 10/22 had a nicely-sighted-in scope on it, making it easy for her to score hits.

We had discussed safety before heading out, and a little when we got there. About halfway through her first magazine, she turned to me and said "This is cool; I can see why people like this!" The problem was that she had lowered the rifle to about waist-level, and turned it along with her torso when she went to face me; the muzzle was directly aimed at my midsection, and about three feet away. I sidestepped away from it, placing my hand along the side of the barrel, and steered it back downrange, then firmly reminded her that, had she shot me, she would be stuck out there in the boonies with a dead or dying husband, no way to call for help, and a pickup truck she could not drive (manual transmission.)

 

[DustyGmt]

I kind of understand how she was able to make a mistake without really thinking about it. I know when I first started out in the electrical trade I got zapped a few times for making assumptions about stuff that shouldn't have been live that was. Which is why you always put your meter on anything you're working on and always point your gun in a safe direction as if it was loaded...

 

[fireside44]

Kinda feel like this goes back to the "starting on a pistol or a rifle?" thread and why I feel a rifle is the best intro to firearms. Much less chance of incidents like these with a rifle. Yes, it can happen but I've seen way to many first timers muzzle sweep others with pistols. I remember in firearms safety this was something the instructor made a big point of. He handed a student a pistol (obviously safety checked already) and the kid swept several in the classroom almost immediately.

Glad your mom is ok!

 

[GAF]

I am glad you did not have a tragedy !

 

[Obturation]

You and your Mom are extraordinarily lucky. Count your blessings and just get her a couple canisters of pepper spray.

I dont really agree, anyone can train. Everyone should learn, even if they never plan to own a gun. Sure get her mace, taser or whatever to help keep her safe. But help her learn firearm safety, might take 10 range trips and she may never own a gun but it is still an option that can't be matched by other weapons.

 

[herrwalther]

I took a friend of mine from NJ shooting when he visited me about 7 years ago. I fool hardily skipped the basics, as we both attended the same university that teaches firearm safety. When shooting my wife's revolver at the time, he cocked the hammer back, and sent a round into the dirt mere inches away from his foot. Fortunately the safety rule he remembered is keep the barrel pointed in a safe direction. After the cease fire he said "I didn't think cocking the hammer would lighten the trigger that much."

That was a good lesson for me, new students start at square 1 when it comes to safety.

 

[straightshooterjake]

I am a Range Safety officer for my club, and I am also a pistol instructor, so I talk to lots of beginning shooters. Sometimes new shooters tell me that they are afraid of their firearm. I tell them "good," let's work with that. Being a little nervous makes people sharp. Being extremely fearful leads to poor decision making, but I can help people work through that until they are cautious in a useful way.

What always concerns me is when new shooters are not afraid of firearms at all, or when their fear goes to absolute zero after one hour of training. Firearms are actually dangerous, and when people are unfamiliar with a dangerous tool, they should have an appropriate level of caution.

So when new shooters tell me that they are afraid, I tell them that it is the inexperienced shooters with no fear that actually make me nervous. A little fear can be easily transferred into very careful safety practices, while people with no fear are often unfocused and unsafe.

Not sure if this is really the issue here, but it is what came to mind after reading the stories.

 

[Kevin Keith]

Muzzle dicipline is #1. All other rules pale in importance in my opinion, reason is ,if its pointed in a "safe" direction finger on the trigger although not great , is not as critical...

I think you're right. Muzzle discipline over all. A finger in the trigger guard, especially on a single action or even a double action revolver doesn't bother me. In fact, it's natural. No one would accuse this guy of poor gun handling, no one old enough to recognize him anyway.

 

[Waveski]

she, ..... , tips it straight back, hammer cocked, finger on the hair trigger and looking straight down the barrel.

I am of the belief that certain things are hard wired. Situational awareness is one of those things. Situational awareness , self preservation instinct , recognition of danger - all these things go hand in hand.

I was so nervous from that incident that I didn't let her keep the gun.

That reaction on your part was reasonable and prudent. You were within a twitch of making the national news and having a number of lives permanently altered.
Someone close to me has taken basic pistol safety training and has very high respect firearms , but is constantly misplacing things. I consider that to be a disqualifier for concealed carry. If I were in your shoes I would disqualify your mother , based on her behavior on the range.
With all due respect.

 

[bearcreek]

I now feel strongly about this in terms of, if you want to give your wife, girlfriend, mother, sister or even a guy who is inexperienced a gun, spend some time with them first and dont just give them a gun and assume that after a 5 minute lesson they will be good to go......which I guess is kind of what I did. I'm certain most people don't need to be told that but, idk. Lesson learned.

Absolutely. You can't just simply tell someone the basic rules and expect them to remember and practice them. That's not how humans work. Practice with an unloaded weapon or better yet a toy or blue gun or airsoft pistol. Have them move around with it and get used to being aware of where the muzzle is. Have them dry fire for a while. And, FWIW, (since you mentioned "even a guy") in my experience as a CHL instructor, the worst offenders when it comes to muzzle discipline violations are guys who have been casual hunters most of their life. They know enough to operate the weapon, but not enough to respect it.

 

[film495]

I dont really agree, anyone can train. Everyone should learn, even if they never plan to own a gun. Sure get her mace, taser or whatever to help keep her safe. But help her learn firearm safety, might take 10 range trips and she may never own a gun but it is still an option that can't be matched by other weapons.

I know people who if you say - don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun, immediately that is what they will do.

 

[Obturation]

I know people who if you say - don't look down the barrel of a loaded gun, immediately that is what they will do.

Yeah, me too. Darwin can handle that. If it isn't a firearm that gets them it'll be some other inanimate object they accidentally kill themselves with.

 

[BSA1]

Maybe Mom needs a different teacher.

Family teaching family does not always work out. I tried to teach my wife how to shoot a semi-auto handgun for many years without success. Then a few years ago we went to a LGS that was having a Open House celebrating being in business for one year. They had a lot of pistols for her to handle and knowledgeable employees. Short story is she listened to coaching from a associate and learned to chamber a round by pushing forward on the frame rather than trying to rack the slick back.

The second thing is based on his coaching she picked a gun that I never would have...a S&W M&P 4.25” barrel 9mm. The result is I now have a shooting buddy that likes to go shooting. Since then she has added a Ruger SR22 (another Gun I would never have choose) and I gave her a M&P Shield earlier this year so she can conceal carry. I was a bit nervous about buying the Shield as I was concerned she might find the slide to hard to rack but she doesn’t have any problems. She is proficient and asks me for advice if she is having problems.

 

[Axis II]

Saber Red pepper spray! You also need to take into account your local laws on giving your mother a firearm so she can carry when meeting people in public. If your state requires a CCW your setting her up for criminal charges when caught without a permit.

 

[bearcreek]

Saber Red pepper spray! You also need to take into account your local laws on giving your mother a firearm so she can carry when meeting people in public. If your state requires a CCW your setting her up for criminal charges when caught without a permit.

He's in Vermont. Only state in the US that never did away with Constitutional Carry.

 

[jmorris]

She sees me throw up the time out signal and she, obviously thinking I was referencing some problem with gun, tips it straight back, hammer cocked, finger on the hair trigger and looking straight down the barrel.

I’ll never forget the time I was at a match and a fellow shooting a revolver was having issues, light strikes, bang, bang, click, bang, bang, kind of stuff. A couple stages in its bang, click, click, click,click,click,click, then you guessed it, he points the barrel to his face to look at the front of the cylinder to see bullets.

The good news is he didn’t have to finish the match with that ammo, he got to go home early.

 

[buck460XVR]

Anyway, we go to my makeshift range and I show and tell her all the safe handling stuff, and I forget exactly what prompted me to put my hand up so as to signal for her to stop for a second while she is halfway through a six round cylinder. She sees me throw up the time out signal and she, obviously thinking I was referencing some problem with gun, tips it straight back, hammer cocked, finger on the hair trigger and looking straight down the barrel.

"finger on the hair trigger"

Why would anyone give someone new to firearms a gun with a "hair trigger". The safety on a revolver is the trigger. If the hammer was cocked, it must have been being shot in SA, so why stop her with the hammer cocked? Initial practice should have been with a empty gun. I see so many red flags here.

Lesson learned.

I hope so.

 

[ATLDave]

Handing someone a gun for self-defense doesn't make them qualified to win a gunfight anymore than handing someone a sword makes them a samurai. And while it is substantially easier to learn to safely and competently use a firearm than a katana, the percentage of the population that can do it isn't 100% and the percentage of the population who will put in the work required is way, way, way less than that.

Not everyone should own a circular saw, either.

I will say that instilling muzzle awareness is the first step of muzzle discipline. A lot of first-time shooters get so focused on the target (and especially the desire to look for holes on it) that they will fire 1-3 shots and then lose complete track of where the muzzle is pointed. They're not trying to point it anywhere... they just lost track of it because they quit directing conscious attention to it and didn't have any unconscious competence to rely on.

I think it's good to tell them not to point it anywhere stupid (don't point it at anything you don't want to destroy), but for new shooters it is more important to follow that up with a specific, positive imperative - keep it pointed down range. Don't merely ask them not to do X - give them something positive to do and tell them that's their single most important job. "As long as you keep the muzzle pointed at the backstop, we really can't get hurt doing this. If you quit doing that, this becomes dangerous. When you are handling the gun, and when you are putting it on the bench, it is your job to make sure it is pointed at the berm. Nowhere else. Point it at the berm 100% of the time."

If you give people a positive task to perform, they will generally keep it in their positive consciousness. If you just give them something to not-do, then they will quickly focus on other things and rely upon the lack of a conscious decision to do the bad thing as satisfying the criteria. Again, without unconscious competence, this isn't reliable. So tell new shooters to do a specific thing - keep the gun pointed at the backstop.