Bad gun smithing experience - exploring legal options

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USAF_Vet

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Some time ago, I was getting an old Remington Model 10 fixed for my step dad as a surprise. Well, its going to be a surprise, just not a good one.

I have contacted him a few times over the past several months he's had it, and every time, its not ready yet. Last time I was in, he told me it would never be safe to shoot again, but offered me $150 for the parts. I said no, just put it back together and let me know when its ready. This was two or three months ago. I stopped by today because I hadn't heard from him an was tired of waiting.
I called him Friday and stopped in Saturday. He informs me he no longer has the gun, that someone stopped by and picked it up. The only person who knew the details and where it was is my wife. So I called her, she said she hasn't picked it up.

The gunsmith was insistent that someone picked it up, but got dodgy when I asked if he had any paperwork for it. My wife dropped it off, and remembers him putting the information in his bound book. But he was also insistent that he had no paperwork other than the repair tag that was on the gun.

He offered me $100 for the inconvenience.

Should I contact ATF and file a complaint? I doubt the gun will be recovered, but this guy has some bad business practices. He either logged out a gun to the wrong person, didn't log it at all, or sold it for the parts. Is there an option I'm overlooking?
 
Call the ATF! After they get in touch with him he may remember who picked it up. Unfortunately he probably already parted it out. We don't need folks like this in the business.
 
Just to be a nice guy.
Go back and tell him you Are calling the ATF, And the cops, if he doesn't come up with it the same day you visit him.

Just him offering you $150 for the parts once a while back.
Then offering you $100 to make you go away now is enough to make my blood boil!

At the very least, he owes you another working shotgun.
And a better nicer one then the one he says he 'lost' somehow.

rc
 
Well I figure I'll contact him again Monday morning and inform him that I will contact ATF and the county sheriff in 24 hours unless the gun is found and returned, or a suitable replacement is offered. Still nothing can really replace a family heirloom, which is the saddest part of this situation.
 
Hate to say it, but I'd go ahead with the contact to the ATF and sheriff. If he's done it to you, he might have done it to others. This is a bad deal and should never happen.
 
I would definitely report this incident to the proper authorities, now.

I've had a few bad experiences myself, in fact one involved a smith trying to return someone else's very expensive 1911 to me. I took a S&W 66 to have the hand spring put on. The smith tried to install it while I waited, and after about an hour he gave it back to me stating I had the wrong spring, which I knew I didn't. So I took it to another smith who had it installed in just a few minutes. So I go home, and the next day the first smith calls me and says my 1911 is ready, come pick it up. I explained I didn't drop a 1911 off, only my model 66 which I already have back, sorry, it's not mine. Later that day, and for the next several days he calls me, as well as the LGS owner, demanding that I pick my 1911 up, and says, it's already paid for, so what's the problem? I told him, look, I don't even own a 1911, and your trying to give me someone else's gun, if you call me one more time, I'm going to report it as harassment.

I've had two firearms damaged beyond repair by two different smiths.

GS
 
USAF Vet,

I am sorry you have gone through this bad experience.

My advice. I don't think you should use the threat of calling in the law as leverage. If you are going to do it, just do it. What if he is a little nutty, grabs a gun and shoots you. Obviously there is something wrong with this person. At the very least he is a liar. I wouldn't trust him. Maybe I am naive or paranoid. At the very least, warn him over the phone. And if things are "worked out" and you must meet him to get some compensation then bring some friends.

However you handle it. Stay safe.
 
USAF Vet,

I am sorry you have gone through this bad experience.

My advice. I don't think you should use the threat of calling in the law as leverage. If you are going to do it, just do it. What if he is a little nutty, grabs a gun and shoots you. Obviously there is something wrong with this person. At the very least he is a liar. I wouldn't trust him. Maybe I am naive or paranoid. At the very least, warn him over the phone. And if things are "worked out" and you must meet him to get some compensation then bring some friends.

However you handle it. Stay safe.
Click to expand...

Obviously don't know the person in question but I wouldn't rule out straight incompetence. Have to agree with #2 a guy like that shouldn't be in business. Think I'd file a complaint regardless of how it turns out .
 
This is one of the few times where I hope a lawyer will plow somebody over like a wrecking ball. Best of luck
 
If someone else picked it up, he was supposed to log it out with a 4473 and background check, if it was in fact logged in, in the first place. There are very specific ATF rules regarding this.

Sounds like they either totally botched the job due to incompetence or stole it from you. Either way, it needs reported.

Yes, I am a dealer and gunsmith.
JEFF
 
I would call the ATF, don't let someone like this stay in business. This is just going to happen to someone else along the road.
 
He's a gunsmith. That means he holds a Type 01 Federal Firearms License.

From the ATF FAQ:
Q: Does a gunsmith need to enter in a permanent “bound book” record every firearm received for adjustment or repair?
If a firearm is brought in for repairs and the owner waits while it is being repaired or if the gunsmith is able to return the firearm to the owner during the same business day, it is not necessary to list the firearm in the “bound book” as an “acquisition.” If the gunsmith has possession of the firearm from one business day to another or longer, the firearm must be recorded as an “acquisition” and a “disposition” in the permanent "bound book" record.
Click to expand...

That means that he CANNOT have simply let someone walk off with the gun. He HAS to have specific record of to whom he transferred that gun, even if it was YOU.

"Sir, you had to have transferred that gun into and out of your bound book. If you did, then you know who took it. If you did not, you've violated the law and I'll be asking the ATF to investigate. You very likely will lose your license. Are we clear?"

Then follow through.
 
The law says that if you keep the gun to work on it you need an ffl. If he doesn't have one and is in business as a gunsmith he's breaking the law.
 
USAF_Vet said:
Well I figure I'll contact him again Monday morning and inform him that I will contact ATF and the county sheriff in 24 hours unless the gun is found and returned, or a suitable replacement is offered. Still nothing can really replace a family heirloom, which is the saddest part of this situation.
Click to expand...


I would go to the authorities without telling him. If you tell him you will, he may start to scheme.

+1 on what the other poster said about this 'smith doing this to someone else in the future. One 'smith damaged the finish on my 1911.
 
A good, honest, reliable gunsmith is about as rare as a good, honest, reliable mechanic. Good luck with this and I would contact BATFE and the sheriff without further discussion. You are not likely the only guy who has had problems with him...
 
I would go to the authorities without telling him. If you tell him you will, he may start to scheme.
Click to expand...

This^^

Had a similar experience with a pawn shop and some stolen items of mine I found they were trying to sell...Told them I was coming back with the police..once I came back with the cops all of a sudden the shop staff had no idea who I was or what I was talking about, and the guitar amps had never been up for sale....

Call your local ATF office and Sheriff and surprise the scumbag.
 
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Be smart

Just call the ATF don't play this guys game, he's done it once he'll do it again. He's ripping people off, stealing their guns and then paying them to go away. (or atleast attempted to do this to you) This guy is crooked and there simply isn't another way to slice it.
 
What audacity to sell another man's toy. His consolation prize of $100 is a very poor and I'd bring The Man into this.
 
Monday morning first thing I'll be on the phone with my county sheriff and the ATF.

Should I file suit in small claims or hold off on that?

I want some sort of compensation, the gun is 88 years old and has been in the family for a long time. Ideally, the shotgun should be replace with something of equal value, but you really can't put a dollar amount on sentimental value. The shotgun itself could be replaced for a few hundred, give or take, but it won't be the same gun that won Turkey Shoots when my step dad was a kid.
 
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