Bar Carry

[WVMountainBoy]

I live in West Virginia, and we have fairly libral gun laws. I am the youngest of my group of misfits (friends) and was thus the last to get my carry permit. Most of my friends went to one instructer, but when my time came to take the class I went to another whom I knew. My friends had all had it indoctrinated into them that it was forbidden to carry a weapon into an establishment that had a liquor license and had discussed this at lengths. At the end of my class I asked my instructor about this "law" and he looks at me almost puzzled and says "Doesn't exist, if theres no sign barring carry, then theres no law barring it"

2 years later, I have to pick a lady friend up from a bar in which shes consumed too many drinks to safely or legelly drive home. As I approach the door to the place a fight breaks out in the middle of the street. Patrons flood out of the bar to watch and I'm sorta trapped on the sidewalk. One of the fighters produces a pistol and starts drunkenly waving it around. I immediatley take a cover position and scream for everyone to clear I pull my jacket back and place my hand on my glock, preparing for a draw and fire, but the idiot never covers me with the weapon (thank goodness) He stands screaming and waving the small auto around and I have time to shout at a girl ducking behind her car to call 911. He hears me and starts running down the road. I immediately take the phone from the girl and give my name and description and tell the dispatcher I'm a stander by and I am armed, I tell the dispatcher what I'm wearing and that I'm moving everyone back inside the bar and locking the door till LE arrives. When the small town cop arrives (not my town mind you) he calls me by name and asks that I show hold my hands out and he quite professionally asks for the magazine from my weapon and to cycle it clear (never did ask for my actual gun, just the mag) then discerned the story. He repeats details into his radio and other officers move to catch the BG. He then turns to me and says "You know you shouldn't have this in a bar" I tell him I wasn't a patron of the bar and had no intentions of entering till the idiots rampage. He merely hands me my clip back and watches me put the glock back into battery.

Fast forward 2 more years, I'm now a dispatcher/telecommunicator for the West Virginia State Police. I asked about the confussion on the issue and all the troops say "I think it is illegel, but I don't know the code" A few of the more proficient ones finally start investigating themselves and there is NO code barring it, so they have me ask the ABC officer (alcohol enforcement) to which he says there is NO code barring it, how did I think some bars keep a shotty under the bar.

In short, it seems that the myth of a law can even cloud officers, I don't know what would have happened if that city officer would have arrested me and tried to charge me with a code that doesn't exist, but I thought I'd drop the story. I'm sorry if its in the wrong place, and mods feel free to move it as necessary.

 

[40SW]

I know my state (Florida) and most CCW states explicitly designate establishements such as bars (Full bars, aka taverns) as "places of nuisance".
Obviously the origins have "vice" in mind, the logic being that places like night clubs and bars are more prone to elevated "passion" and invidiuals while intoxicated are more "prone" to "risky" and "agressive" behaivior, so the risk of violence goes up.
I do agree with this in part, but also think that alot of this is routed in more archaic "prohibition" type mentality. States don't do a good enough job of clarification of what constitutes this, so to err on the side of caution, and since I am not an attorney, I err on the side of caution and avoid these places all together.

 

[Mousegun]

How about this one. Just to show how "off the wall" some laws can be from state to state.

Here in Tennessee it is illegal for a police officer, on duty, to carry a gun in a restaurant that serves alcohol unless he is performing police duty.

What that translates to is if he stops at a restaurant that serves for lunch, he is supposed to keep his gun in the car while he eats.

This has been established by the State's Attorney General via two rulings to the police (Opinion 99-024 in 1999 --- and Tennessee Code Annotated Section 39-17-1350 in 2000). It took two rulings because the first one was so unbelievable that the ruling had to go down a second time.

Most police officers don't even know about this memo and many of the ones I have spoken to don't believe that I am telling them the truth.

We CCW holders in Tn. are trying to get the state to allow carry in restaurants that serve so we can go into places other than Burger King and still have self protection. Liberal law makers in Memphis have been blocking this legislation for a long time.

 

[aguyindallas]

In Texas, we have the 51% rule with regard to places that serve alcohol for on premis consumption.

They need to be properly marked with the 51% sign and to "earn" this position, they have to derive 51% or more of their revenue from the sales of alcohol for on premise consumption.

Thankfully, stopping by your local Outback or Chilis etc....is safe to do, while armed, so long as you dont belly up to the bar.

 

[308win]

Carry in businesses serving liquor is prohibited in Ohio. I would like to see carry allowed in restaurants where liquor is served but I imagine that would just create another level of confusion. Related question, does the Ohio prohibition against carry in establishments serving liquor apply to private clubs? The law simply states premises to whom a class D liquor license (liquor for on premises consumption) has been issued.

 

[CoRoMo]

I believe that the 51% rule pertains to Colorado as well. At least that is what I remember my CCW trainer saying. Liquor stores, no. Bar-n-Grill, sure.

When I go out with the wife to a steakhouse, I don't want to disarm just because I plan to have a beer or two. However, you do risk a little scrutiny if you ever have to use your weapon after having had consumed an adult beverage. Imagine the little old lady on the jury that has never touched a gun nor alcohol. In her eyes, you did both, and you're now on the stand trying to convince her you were the good guy. Regardless, I'd prefer to be on the stand than in the grave.

 

[Bubbles]

A lot of people may be confused because Virginia prohibits concealed carry in an establishment with a license to sell alcohol for on-premises consumption. (Open carry is legal, but that's a whole 'nuther topic.) In West Virginia there is no such restriction.

I read through the Code of WV §61-7 which contains the laws on "dangerous weapons", including concealed carry laws, and found no restrictions regarding carrying in bars. There are restrictions listed for places like schools and courthouses.

 

[FSCJedi]

This topic is of specific interest to me as well, being from WV. I, too, was told that it's a big no-no to carry while in bars such (never really stopped me, though). Glad to know that I wasn't, in fact, breaking the law.

Bubbles, whereabouts you at? I grew up in Martinsburg.

 

[ranger58]

in michigan you can be in the eating area but not in the bar area, you can walk though it to go to the rest room but can not sit or stay in bar area.


R58

 

[Exmasonite]

but in michigan, the law says if 51% or more of the establishment's revenue is from bar sales, you can't be anywhere on the premises.

(how they're going to figure this one out, i'll never know)

 

[JamisJockey]

The unintended consequence of the VA law, as it has been explained to me:
It is unlawful to conceal a weapon where alcohol is served.
But, it is also an open carry state. There is no law forbiding open carry in an establishment that serves alcohol.
I for one, will take my chances. Open carry where I live is crusing for a run in with the police, IMHO. It's very suburban here, and I don't see the sheeple being pleased with it. I've yet to see anyone open carry in this part of VA.

 

[Kacerdias]

JamisJockey, I've seen at least 2 folks open carrying around the King Street area in Alexandria, VA and both were exiting restaurants that serve alcohol. One of my Australian collegues was temporarily working at our US headquarters. While walking towards a local restaurant I spotted a tall well-dressed gent with his wife and two kids waiting at a crosswalk. At his side was finely made leather holster with a Glock tucked in it. My coworker didn't process that he was carrying until about 30 seconds later. I reassured him that it was perfectly legal.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I believe that the 51% rule pertains to Colorado as well. At least that is what I remember my CCW trainer saying. Liquor stores, no. Bar-n-Grill, sure.

Here are some FAQs about Colorado handgun laws. Carrying into a bar is not prohibited in CO, however, carrying while intoxicated is. What is intoxicated? I don't think that's been established yet, so I limit myself to one beer or glass of wine while in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

I don't go to bars.

 

[Mr. Designer]

I am fairly certain that the only places that Pennsylvania does not allow CC are schools, court houses and state parks.

 

[Geronimo45]

it seems that the myth of a law can even cloud officers

Yep. It's pretty common knowledge that carrying a gun at a school is illegal. What's not common knowledge is that the 'school' is the buildings alone - not the sidewalks, parking lots, or grounds - according to the AG opinion on the issue. Lots of myths around about the law - and sometimes the police don't know any better themselves.

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by Exmasonite: but in michigan, the law says if 51% or more of the establishment's revenue is from bar sales, you can't be anywhere on the premises.

(how they're going to figure this one out, i'll never know)

Actually your the one who is supposed to figure this one out.

 

[Bubbles]

FSCJedi, I'm in Inwood. If you haven't visited Martinsburg in a few years you'll find it's grown quite a bit.

I used to live in Sterling (northern VA) and saw people open-carrying all the time. Usually a dozen or so on Friday nights at various restaurants in the vicinity of Chantilly. A group of us would go shoot at Blue Ridge Arsenal and then go out to eat afterwards. Interestingly enough, the restaurant owners and managers who were not born in the US were more welcoming of it than those who were.

 

[Quiet]

Nevada

In Nevada, you can legally carry a concealed firearm and drink alcohol.
Just make sure your BAC is under 0.10. If you are driving your BAC needs to be under 0.08. So, technically you could get arrest for DWI but not for carrying while intoxicated.


NRS 202.257 Possession of firearm when under influence of alcohol, controlled substance or other intoxicating substance; administration of evidentiary test; penalty; forfeiture of firearm.

1. It is unlawful for a person who:
(a) Has a concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his blood or breath;
or
(b) Is under the influence of any controlled substance, or is under the combined influence of intoxicating liquor and a controlled substance, or any person who inhales, ingests, applies or otherwise uses any chemical, poison or organic solvent, or any compound or combination of any of these, to a degree which renders him incapable of safely exercising actual physical control of a firearm, to have in his actual physical possession any firearm. This prohibition does not apply to the actual physical possession of a firearm by a person who was within his personal residence and had the firearm in his possession solely for self-defense.

2. Any evidentiary test to determine whether a person has violated the provisions of subsection 1 must be administered in the same manner as an evidentiary test that is administered pursuant to NRS 484.383 to 484.3947, inclusive, except that submission to the evidentiary test is required of any person who is directed by a police officer to submit to the test. If a person to be tested fails to submit to a required test as directed by a police officer, the officer may direct that reasonable force be used to the extent necessary to obtain the samples of blood from the person to be tested, if the officer has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be tested was in violation of this section.

3. Any person who violates the provisions of subsection 1 is guilty of a misdemeanor.

4. A firearm is subject to forfeiture pursuant to NRS 179.1156 to 179.119, inclusive, only if, during the violation of subsection 1, the firearm is brandished, aimed or otherwise handled by the person in a manner which endangered others.

5. As used in this section, the phrase “concentration of alcohol of 0.10 or more in his blood or breath” means 0.10 gram or more of alcohol per 100 milliliters of the blood of a person or per 210 liters of his breath.

(Added to NRS by 1995, 2533; A 1999, 2470; 2003, 2565)

 

[stephpd]

Illegal here in Delaware. CCW instructor said that it had to to with impaired thinking. Like the OP observed some people will get drunk and brandish a weapon. Usually has lethal consequences. Same as drunk driving and impairment. Alcohol causes more deaths to others then most everything else.

 

[Right Wing Wacko]

Here in WA it's illegal to carry (Open or Concealed) in "That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age".

While I dispise restrictions of any kind, at least this one is fairly easy to understand.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Carrying into a bar is not prohibited in CO, however, carrying while intoxicated is. What is intoxicated? I don't think that's been established yet, so I limit myself to one beer or glass of wine while in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

Easy one, Larry. As long as your blood alcohol level remains below .08%, the same as for driving, you're not intoxicated in Colorado.

I advise my CCW students not to carry while drinking simply to avoid hassles, but point out a moderate quantity of drinking is legal.

 

[Mannix]

Bar carry is totally legal in MN.

Now if we could just get the carry age down to 18 .

 

[Exmasonite]

Quote:
Originally posted by Exmasonite: but in michigan, the law says if 51% or more of the establishment's revenue is from bar sales, you can't be anywhere on the premises.

(how they're going to figure this one out, i'll never know)

Actually your the one who is supposed to figure this one out.

so, i'm supposed to walk into the restaurant/pub and say, "Can i see your revenue reports for the last 12 months to determine if you serve more booze than food?"

 

[40SW]

"so, i'm supposed to walk into the restaurant/pub and say, "Can i see your revenue reports for the last 12 months to determine if you serve more booze than food?""

That is exactly why I avoid ANY establishment that SERVES alcohol. I get my beer at the grocery store and drink while watching football in the safety of my own home with friends and family.

.

 

[dogrunner]

In Florida its also not illegal to be drunk as hell while armed...........but you cannot have that weapon in your hand.....Statuatory defination defines illegally having the piece as literally "in ones hand."!