Barrel break-in, bore cleaning and being realistic

[bigedp51]

The only reason I'm posting this now is because my two 60 year old dyslexic fingers hit the post button in the just closed "Barrel Break-in? Yes or no?" thread and all my typing efforts were in vain. A little window came up and said "Thread Closed" so to whoever locked this thread I would like you to know that you were called every (expletive deleted) word I know. I also ran over to my shop area and stuck large blunt knitting needles in the Voodoo doll I made your image.

I also want you to know I only know the Columbus method of typing.......discover the key and land on it and ALL my typing went up in smoke and couldn't be saved.

Thank you, I feel much better now but I still think you should be shot with a dull bullet, be drawn and quartered and have your library card revoked.


Below is a standard commercially button rifled barrel that was made on a "good" day at the factory.



Below is the same standard commercially button rifled barrel that was made on Friday just before quitting time.



Below is a custom made hand lapped barrel that deserves a proper break-in period.



What fire lapping can do for a standard grade commercially barrel.



And now after looking at the above photos do you really think your doing anything by breaking in a standard commercially barrel other than making your bore brushes smaller and adding more copper to the bore?

Please watch the video below and be prepared for a shock and ask yourself why anyone would try and break-in a standard grade commercially made barrel?

Bore Scope Video–Factory vs. Custom Barrels

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2007/07/borescope-video-factory-vs-custom-barrels/

I have to go now and rest my old tired fingers........
(I "almost" forgive the Moderator for deleting the old posting.) :banghead:

 

[Heretic]

My typing is no faster than yours, and they do that to me too.

 

[M-Cameron]

now heres the million dollar question......


what stands to be gained from "breaking in" the custom hand lapped barrel?

 

[MyOpinion]

Having seen a lot of barrels through borescopes over a lot of years, I will say that your photos are the extreme end of the factory representation.
Since average rifling lands are only around .003 above the grooves, the defects you see when magnified are just that. Magnified. Single point chatter in the photos is likely about .0003.
Is it worth messin with? Probably not, considering that most shooters do not have the skills to discern the subtle differences between a bad load and a barrel that is less than what some believe is necessary.
Will it show on the target? Again too much shooter variable.

A custom barrel salesman and a Borescope salesman are at work at the sponsored site called accurate shooter, for what its worth. If you post to that forum a good suggestion, It will make it to the bulletin without any due credit to you unless you are a contributor or a sponsor.

German Salazar has breakin instructions on his blog site that should be followed.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/11/equipment-barrel-break-in.html

 

[briansmithwins]

Just curious, anyone have borescope pics of a cold hammer forged barrel?

BSW

 

[bigedp51]

Below, a el cheapo bore scope (very short range)

With a bore light and different power magnifying glasses you will be able to see just inside your bore. The first photo of the side view (above) of the button rifling and the wave pattern can be seen in my Stevens 200 and Remington 700 with these lenses.



Having spent a lot of time shooting milsurps with mild frosted bores to full blown pitting I can tell you that foam bore cleaner works wonders "without" any scrubbing with a bore brush.

Below a No.4 Enfield after firing 50 rounds and one shot of foam bore cleaner.



When you look straight down the bore of this .303 with a bore light the bore shines. If you look "in" the bore above the bore is gray and dull looking from microscopic pits or a frosted bore. A new bore with its not so smooth rifling will clean up with foam bore cleaner very quickly also with no scrubbing.

The bore gauge below was used by the armourers and was to pass from end to end of the bore. If any copper buildup is on the lands the gauge will hang up and stop and not move further. Only the Armourers cleaned the copper from the bores of Enfield rifles and these Enfields were inspected four time per year. The only thing the troops did was pore boiling water down the bore and when dry the bore was just oiled. (No Hoppes, no copper cleaners just oil)





In my opinion we are over cleaning our bores and more damage is done to barrels by cleaning rods than anything else. And foam bore cleaner doesn't require scrubbing and over working your cleaning rods.
(spare the rod and spoil your bore)

 

[Zerodefect]

"proper barrel break in"

WT?

I scrub my barrels in with Unicorn Saliva mixed with ATF and Milk of Magnesia. Works great, except for the side effects of glitter.

It's a joke. Shoot your rifle, clean your rifle. Tadaaaaaa! All broken in.

 

[bigedp51]

Zerodefect

"proper barrel break in"

WT?

I scrub my barrels in with Unicorn Saliva mixed with ATF and Milk of Magnesia. Works great, except for the side effects of glitter.

It's a joke. Shoot your rifle, clean your rifle. Tadaaaaaa! All broken in.

It is so nice to see a smart and well adjusted shooter who is possibly as brilliant and modest as I am.
(Did I say humble?)

Your a good man Zerodefect, but then your screen names speaks highly for itself also.

99% of all errors are human errors and only 3% are actual mechanical failures.

 

[Zerodefect]

And many precision shooters avoid brushes like the plague. If you can get the bore clean enough with a patch and foam bore cleaner, then that's the way to go.

If there was some kind of majik grit, polish, or whatever that actually made a difference, every barrel would come pre-broken in. That's just too easy to skip. There isn't much a cleaning rod can do to 4160 SS that isn't going to just make things worse.



Shoot and clean, use a bore guide, don't completely exit the barrel at the crown. Nothing to it.

 

[MtnCreek]

If there was some kind of majik grit, polish, or whatever that actually made a difference, every barrel would come pre-broken in.

But there is; right? Lapping the bore with majik grit.

 

[bigedp51]

MtnCreek
But there is; right? Lapping the bore with majik grit.

Go ahead and lap your new .308 barrels, I need a new .303 barrel for a Enfield.

The majik grit makes em bigger.

 

[SentinelStrategic]

Posted: 01-25-2000 05:19
I just read the Feb edition of rifleman. No wonder it has shrunk to a few pages when they print such garbage as the barrel break in. It's lucky it doesn't have much following now. As a life member and a barrel maker of long standing be assured I will call them on this BS!!! I can say that there are enough barrels ruined by ignorance without encouraging the masses to commit mechanical suicide with such BS


Posted: 01-27-2000 08:57
I will make one last post on this subject and appeal to logic on this subject I think it is the height of arrogance to believe a novice can improve a barrel using a cleaning rod more than that a barrel maker can do with 30 years of experience and a * million dollars in equipment. The barrel is a relatively precise bit of machining and to imagine that it can be improved on with a bit of abrasive smeared on a patch or embedded in a bullet. The surface finish of a barrel is a delicate thing with more of them being ruined with a cleaning rod in the hands of someone who doesn't know how to use one. I would never in a million years buy a used rifle now because you well may buy one that has been improved. First give a little thought to what you think you are accomplishing with any of the break in methods. Do you really believe that if what you are doing would help a barrel that the barrel maker wouldn't have already done it. The best marketing advantage he can have is for his barrels to out perform his competitors! Of coarse he is happy to see you poking things in your barrel . Its only going to improve his sales. Get real!!!! I am not saying the following to brag because the record speak for it' self McMillan barrels won the gold at 4 straight Olympics. Won the Leach Cup eight years running. Had more barrels in the Wimbledon shoot off every year for 4 straight yearsthan any other make. Set the national 1000 yard record 17 times in one year. Held 7 world records at the same time in the NBRSA .
Won the national silhouette matches 5 straight times and set 3 world records while doing that . Shot the only two 6400 scores in the history of small bore and holds a 100 yard world record that will stand for ever at .009 of one inch. All with barrels the shooter didn't have to improve on by breaking them in.

Agreed.

 

[Motega]

I have always been meticulous about breaking in barrels. My latest rifle, a DSA FAL got a box of loaded Tubbs for fire lapping. My point of reference is shooting the same rifle that wasn't broken in using any special procedure. Sometimes it makes a HUGE difference and sometimes not much. As said, many, many variables. On a custom high quality barrel you have a tool already polished just about as good as it gets so the barrel itself isn't going to benefit. BUT I think it is a good idea to look at what is going on in the action every few rounds in a new rifle and perhaps clean and polish some high spots on the throat or feed ramp, etc.

I am convinced that paying attention and cleaning for the first 20 shots or so on my Omega muzzleloader is why it is so beautifully accurate. On the other hand, I don't think the overboard I went on the FAL did much.

In the end, if you have the time and patience then by all means do a modest and sensible break in of a new rifle but don't limit it to just the rifling in the barrel- clean and gently polish bolts, feeding mechanisms, and wherever else is showing immediate wear.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

I just fire lapped a rifle (Marlin 1895) the other day...its the first rifle I've ever fire lapped, I used the Beartooth Bullets lapping kit...

It made a HUGE difference in my gun, it only took 12 rounds to do it...fire lapping works, provided its done right. Keep the loads weak...

Just in case anybody wants a good fire lapping load for a Marlin 45-70:
Remington brass (fired, not resized)
Soft lead "oversize" bullet rolled in Beartooth's lapping compound
Any primer (I used Federal Large Pistol primers)
1 grain of poly fill (quilt batting)
5 grains of Unique

That load started out at 468 fps and got steadily slower with each shot...that last round chrono'd 426 fps.

Every load I've fired since then has gained appx. 20 fps over what they averaged before lapping...and accuracy is excellent, but it always was.

I lapped it to reduce barrel leading with cast bullets at jacketed velocity.

 

[Claude Clay]

Heretic

My typing is no faster than yours, and they do that to me too.

times like that call for an extra pinch of spice, yes?

only 2 rifles i took the time and both are +good at what they do:

my H-Bay to 600 yards
my Rem 700 in 308 to 1000 yards.
...this one was blue-printed.

was time well spent!!

 

[ball3006]

I shoot, then I clean after shooting. Repeat often. Been doing that for 60 years when my dad first took me shooting. Works for me.....chris3

 

[bigedp51]

At the top of the page is my foam bore cleaner photo that shows how much copper was removed from the bore of a frosted milsurp.

Use the foam bore cleaner on all your rifles and keep the paper towels and then compare the towels for each rifle. The "dark" blue bores will be the roughest on a new barrel and light blue would be the smoothest.

You do not need a bore scope to check your bores, all you need to do is look at how much blue residue you have to "read" the bore.