Best beginning shotgun?

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Mastrogiacomo

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I'd love to try skeeting at some point, or is it called "shooting clays?" What's the difference?

Anyway, I'm a small lady so I want something that won't knock me on my behind or give me a heart attack hearing it go off. This is what I'm looking at:

Remington:

Youth Deer 20"
Youth gun 21" -- other than the barrel look, not sure of the difference.

Winchester

Model 1300 Defender 18" 20 gauge
Deer Compact 22"

Your thoughts?
 
Don't have much time, so I'm going to suggest you look up definitions-explanations of skeet and "sporting clays." They're quite different sports.

Better yet, and the best advice anyone can give you, go to a skeet range or sporting clays event BEFORE you buy anything. You'll not only get a feel for the sports, but you'll meet a lot of great folks who will let you shoot their guns.

You'll likely see semi-autos and doubles, usually over-and-unders -- no pump guns, such as the Winchester you mentioned (not sure what Remington was from description). Both Winchester and Remington make fine semi-autos. If their prices put you off, look at a Charles Daly.

One other priceless thing you'll gain from going to an event before buying: you'll learn something no one can tell you, which is what is feels like to actually shoot various guns -- something you'll never get from hours handling guns or listening to the wisest and most experienced gunners.

You'll also get invaluable advice on what guns fit you, whether you're shooting high, low or behind when you miss -- again things you can only get from actually shooting. If you buy a gun that doesn't fit you, regardless of other qualities, you won't hit what you're shooting at and likely as not you'll experience harder, possibly unpleasant, recoil. It'll ruin a great sport for you and waste your investment.

You will learn that 12 guages kick the hardest -- unless ported -- with standard ammo and have greatest likelihood of breaking the clays. The 20 guages, provided they're not too light (one of the hardest kicking guns I ever owned and shot was a 20), have milder recoil, but don't throw as many pellets at the pigeon.

Try to shoot a 28 guage. They're enjoying a boom in popularity because they're light in weight and recoil and quick to point. Even though they can't match a 12 for range results unless in the hands of a great expert, they're fun to shoot and would be a great beginning gun. And if you go on to become a serious shotgunner, you'll never regret having that 28 around.

Hope this helps some.

Good luck!
 
Try it! You'll like it.

If you have the opportunity, try a variety of guns first. Frankly, of the guns you listed, none are optimal for clay target shooting. That's not to say that you couldn't use them (unless then range/course has a minimum barrel-length requirement -- some do), but you'll find that the vast majority of folks use long-ish barrels.

For my own shooting, I consider a 28" barrel to be pretty much the lower limit, with 30" or longer even better. Longer barrels (in general) result in a smoother swing and less perceived lead for most shots.

My wife is small, and when she started shooting clays, the overall weight of the gun was far more important than the recoil. She started with a lightweight 20ga, and eventually stole one of my 12ga autoloaders. By the time she "upgraded", she was used to handling the guns and her muscles were built up a bit more. Frankly, the difference in recoil between those two guns, using standard light target loads, is pretty minimal.

Were I in your position, I would hold off on purchasing a shotgun for the time being and see what you can borrow or rent. Try a few different types (autoloaders, pumps, O/U) and see which ones you like and which you dislike.

If you are dead-set on getting something, I would probably recommend the 20ga Remington 870 Express Combo. You get a short barrel for deer-hunting and/or HD, plus a longer tube for bird hunting and clay games. IIRC, at least the longer tube has screw-in chokes, which is good.

Screw-in chokes give you the flexibility to make the pattern tighter or more open, depending upon the game. Skeet typically is best shot with very open chokes. Most sporting clays courses are designed for a slightly tighter pattern (ie. longer shots). And trap is frequently shot with fairly tight patterns.

As far as synthetic vs. wood stocks... I much prefer wood. IMO, they are easier to tweak for an exact fit, and just plain look better.

Good luck! If I were a betting man, I'd say you'll get a bunch of replies to this here thread.
 
Noise? Longer the barrel the farther it is away from your ears. I am a pretty serious duck hunter and the worst thing in a duck blind is short barrels and ported barrels. Just too damn loud.

Like mention above, I would try out several shotguns. Please don't disregard the 12 gauge. A 12 guage auto with trap loads can be quite pleasant to shoot. Auto shotguns also have the lowest felt recoil of all the shotguns available.

Please don't settle for a shorter barrel, in wing shooting and clays the longer barrel, 26" or longer seems to make for easier shot placement for most shooters.
 
Weight matters. My boys shoot 20s that weigh in the 6 1/4 to 6 1/2 pound range; I generally shoot a 12 that weighs somewhere between 7 1/2 to 7 3/4 pounds. None of the three of us finds the recoil noticeably different between the three guns.

Stock fit matters a great deal, too. I had a Winchester that beat the heck out of my cheeck every time I fired it. Not a "knock you off your feet" recoil issue, but every shot was a pain, literally. So, how it's delivered can, in some cases, matter a lot more than how much is delivered at the buttplate.
 
Remington 870 Express 20 ga. youth model. If the stock is to short go to the adult version of this gun.
 
You'll likely see semi-autos and doubles, usually over-and-unders -- no pump guns, such as the Winchester you mentioned
I've seen pump used for skeet.

As for gauge, well, I think I was shooting just as well with a 12 semi as a 20 O/U. While there's less shot coming out, it's smaller and lighter. Pattern's a little more important. If a 20 is fitting you better, it'll be eaiser to hit with than a 12 with a larger load that doesn't fit.

Go to the range, shoot guns, see what works.
 
A couple things...

A good overview of all the clay games is found in Jerry Meyer's Clay Target Handbook, available at book stores like Barnes and Noble.

A reasonably polite and safe rookie,especiallya female, can get to try lots of different shotguns at a range. Find out what feels good and shoots where you're looking, THEN invest.

The Youth 870 mentioned here is a good choice for many folks, including smaller shooters.

A 28 gauge is viable, and as said, it's suitable for lots of things and lots of skill levels.

HTH....
 
Is the 28 gauge heavy or light? What's the lightest load that can be used effectively in shooting clays but still a gentle shoot?
 
I think TBIGE and Trapper Ready gave good advice. Were I in your position I would find out where my nearest Sporting Clays or Skeet field was located and their shooting times and go there and speak to whoever is in charge. Explain that you are a new shooter and would like to see what the games are all about and what guns are used. I'm sure you will find them helpful and friendly and more than willing to let you join a squad of shooters and try different guns and get the flavor of the games. Some 40 years ago I showed up at an Air Force skeet range as a young Airman and an Officer there gave me a box of reloads and let me use his gun to shoot my first round of skeet. I have returned the favor many times myself as have many other shooters I know. Clay shooters are a pretty friendly bunch and will go out of their way to help new shooters. Come join us! Nick
 
Here's some random thoughts that might help:

My wife is a "small lady" (the small ones are always the mean ones) and she literally got knocked on her behind shooting a 20ga pump gun because it was loaded with hunting loads. She has also shot my 8+ pound 12ga trap gun and even though she has trouble holding the the thing, she has no trouble with recoil because it's loaded with light target loads. Shooting light loads from as heavy a gun as you can comfortably handle will take care of a lot of the recoil for you. Try it!

The "big three" clay games are trap, skeet, and sporting clays.
If you go to:
www.remington.com/whatsnew/readroom.htm
and look under "shooting sports" you will find a nice summary of trap and skeet.
To read about sporting clays go to:
http://www.sportingclays.net/index_misc.cfm?StoryID=1120

Having just recently become addicted to killing clays myself, I am a champion of the try-as-many-guns-as-you-can-get-your-hands-on method of shotgun selection. You will be astounded by how many clay killers will not only let you handle their multi-thousand dollar guns but how many will encourage you to test-fire them too. The price you will pay for that is that they will tend to talk your ears off about their gun. And the gun they had before that one. And the gun before that. And the first gun they had. And their uncle's gun.
And how the only good 1100 was made before 19xx. And their dad's gun...
 
Great Suggestions have already been given.

I am a big proponent of:

- Gun fit to shooter
-Trying as many guns as can before buying
-Less perceived Recoil is accomplished by 1) hearing protection and 2) gun fit to shooter.
-Learning the Correct Basic Fundamentals of mounting gun to face, and stance- also having the stamina , by doing repetitions of these. Meaning once the gun is found and the basics learned, starting out doing 25 Correct repetitions a day with dryfiring, working up to 100 a day, I assure you will make anyone a better shotgunner. Yep even better than shooting 50 live rds a day using Incorrect fundamentals.

It is going to be real hard to beat an 1100 in 20 ga. for skeet. 20 ga shells are readily available. 20 ga can be used for trap, just use a tighter choke, same for 5 stand and Sporting clays.

I really like the 28 ga, the problem for a new shooter that does reload is the expense of shells. New shooters need the abilty to shoot and not be hampered with ammo avail and costs. New shooters "may" feel due to lack of experience , "undergunned" for Trap, 5 stand or SC.

12 ga is the best all around, because the larger payload is best for Trap, and Sporting Clays. The problem is - or is not this. Yeah the gun is heavier, however shooting a heavier gun lessens perceived recoil, especially with lighter loads. If one goes too "light" on the loads the 12 ga semi "may not" cycle the loads.

Getting "whacked" by recoil, ( gun fit, heavy loads...) missing targets, not finding or being able to find / afford loads ( 28 ga) and such turn off a LOT of new shooters.

Hence the suggestion for a good used 1100. IF you find a good used Beretta 303 ( older model) or a newer Beretta, these are good too.

I highly recommend Brister's Book. Many questions we see on the forums can be answered in his book. Yeah it may be an older publication,some stuff just works no matter the date .
 
Some 40 years ago I showed up at an Air Force skeet range as a young Airman and an Officer there gave me a box of reloads and let me use his gun to shoot my first round of skeet.
Hey, in forty years I can say that too, though the guy's a retiree that works over on the missile range, not an officer(don't know if he was one though). As soon as I have a bucket of reloads and a loaner gun, I'll be happy to do so too.
 
Im not very big or strong but im not a small lady either. My 1300 winchester just about kicks me on my ass... but then again its 12ga. Just my 2 cents.
 
DevLcL--You may know this but if you don't, you can mitigate some of that recoil with ammo selection. If you stay away from the "promotional" loads and use any of the major Mfgrs light target (2 3/4 dr. 1 ounce) loads you can reduce recoil 20-25%. If you reload use an ounce at 1150 fps recipes. Nick
 
I have a BIG vote for the 28 gauge. I just love this shotgun caliber. I don't know why the gurus designing shotguns for the market don't make youth sized guns in this caliber. The youth 20's out there just manage to kick the crap out of the young shooter.

Last year, I bought an 870 SP in 28 for my 11 year old. Although the stock is a little too long and the forearm is a little too far forward, the kid took to that gun like a duck to water. In dove season, I couldn't help but just sit back and watch him kill all the birds for me. The grin on his face paid me back multiple times on my investment.

Though not a skeet shooter myself, I do know of several good ones who also love the 28. Yes, factory ammo is more expensive but if you're serious about the sport, you'll start reloading and that cost starts to come in line with the other sizes.
 
Lots of good suggestions already here.

But whatever you do, go somewhere and shoot a few different models and gauges BEFORE you buy.

hillbilly
 
Decided

I was leaning toward a Mossberg -- might not rule it out but today someone at the range had an 870 express in Synthetic. I'd like to get the 26" 12 gauge in wood. He said as long as I go for light loads, shouldn't be an issue. Nice inexpensive gun too -- maybe I should look at something in an AK-47 too.... :rolleyes: :)
 
Seldom, if ever, an 870 is a bad choice. The Express with 26" barrel is a handy and versatile weapon.

As for ammo for new shooters, try either the Winchester Feather loads or the Fiocchi 7/8 oz loads. They've enough moxie to bust clays nicely but leave the shoulder unbruised.

With the Express, I suggest picking up a pair or so of choke tubes eventually. One open like Skeet, Cylinder or Improved Cylinder, and one tight like Improved Modified, Full or Extra Full. But that's for later. right now you can vary the pattern by changing loads.

Also, hunt up a qualified instructor. This will save you lots of time and some money.

If that's not possible, read the 101 threads and ask questions here.
 
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