Best locking mechanism on a gun safe?

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ShooterMcGavin

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I have been contemplating a gun safe for a while, but I can never figure out what is the best locking mechanism. The safe will be bolted to the floor of my closet. I want to protect mostly against amateur theives, so maybe any lock is good enough? If that's the case, then I want something convenient and somewhat quick to open. It would be nice to also guard against the theif who knows I'm out of town and has some time to spend on the lock.

Electronic button-press locks - It seems there might be an easy way to bypass them, but I do not know (analyzing button wear, etc.). Is this the case? They do seem to be faster than dial combination locks.

Dial combination - These are the tradition and seem to be a good solution. I think they can be bypassed, but I also think that takes some time and a little training. However, they are slow and the combination cannot be changed (can it?).

Keys - Cylindrical style locks are no good, IMO. I have heard of picking them with a Bic pen. Something that is multi-bitted is the way to go, right? I would like an alternate method, so I don't have to hide the keys that I am not carrying. I do not like carrying MORE keys.

Fingerprint ID - Is this robust at this point? They are expensive, but they do not require storing a key some place. Also, they seem to be fast under pressure. What about their functionality when there is a little sweat on your fingers?? How fast do they work?

*note* At this point, I don't think opening the safe quickly, in a stressful situation is my absolute highest priority. I only have a handgun, which I keep on my nightstand at night. I have no children in the house. I am looking for a smallish safe, probably less than 1.0 cubic foot.

Thanks.
 
IME Instructions that come with push-button-pad-type locks recommend watching for signs of wear on pads and changing the combo when wear is seen. I understand that changing combos on dial locks requires locksmith. Have no useful info on print-scanner locks.
James
 
Shooter,

I would go for Sargent and Greenleaf type II's they are the standard on most quality safes. When I was in banking our lockmith swore by them he also as of about 4 months ago strongly urged against electronic locks because he replaces them most often and their are combos out there in banks 70 to 80 years old probably older. Another thing that bugs me about electronic safes is most have an override key. That being said for quick entry on pistol boxes and the like they are hard to beat.
 
Electronic button-press locks - It seems there might be an easy way to bypass them, but I do not know (analyzing button wear, etc.). Is this the case? They do seem to be faster than dial combination locks.
Click to expand...

UL rated electronic locks are not easy to bypass. A Group 1 electronic lock is more resistant to manipulation than a Group 2 mechanical lock. These locks do have a higher failure rate than mechanical locks, and are non serviceable.

There are many cheap chinese electronic locks on the market that are junk.

Dial combination - These are the tradition and seem to be a good solution. I think they can be bypassed, but I also think that takes some time and a little training. However, they are slow and the combination cannot be changed (can it?).
Click to expand...

Any lock can be bypassed. UL rated mechanical locks are very common, and pretty reliable as a whole. The combinations can be changed to numbers of your choice, and this should be done by a locksmith.

There are many non rated, and non mechanical locks on the market. Some of these are junk.

Keys - Cylindrical style locks are no good, IMO. I have heard of picking them with a Bic pen. Something that is multi-bitted is the way to go, right? I would like an alternate method, so I don't have to hide the keys that I am not carrying. I do not like carrying MORE keys.
Click to expand...

Keyed locks are typically found on your less expensive safes. There are high security locks found on safes, and these are usually day locks on burglar rated units. You can put a high security key lock on a gun safe, but I've never seen it done. These are also UL rated.

There are many non rated key locks on the market. Some of these are junk.

Fingerprint ID - Is this robust at this point? They are expensive, but they do not require storing a key some place. Also, they seem to be fast under pressure. What about their functionality when there is a little sweat on your fingers?? How fast do they work?
Click to expand...

These types of locks are very similar to the electronic locks. In fact, the lock is usually the same, but the keypad and processor are different. Although the technology has come a long way, I still wouldn't trust it.

*note* At this point, I don't think opening the safe quickly, in a stressful situation is my absolute highest priority. I only have a handgun, which I keep on my nightstand at night. I have no children in the house. I am looking for a smallish safe, probably less than 1.0 cubic foot.
Click to expand...

Stay away from fire rated safes, especially the cheap ones. These safes have very high moisture content, and are not suitable for storing items that rust easily.

You'll want to look at safes built like gun safes (but smaller), built using steel plate (with no insulation), or built with dry composite construction.
 
Shooter,

This model works great for my needs. It's about the size you are looking for. It has the keypad lock (which you can program). Both ac power with battery backup, and a key override.

Also check out the other products on the site. I have met this guy a few times at the Texas Gunshows and he is proud of what he sells...because he has designed a good many of the console safes himself.

I also picked up the mattress holster...which I find more dependable than the nightstand fumble. You can find the pistol a lot quicker when it is in a drawing position IMO.

http://www.advancedpistolsafes.com/Home_Vault.html
 
.
I paid extra to get a mechanical lock on my Winchester safe. To my way of thinking, a gun safe lock MUST work when needed. An electronic lock involves too many potential failure paths: dead battery, keypad failure, lighting strike, and unfortunately, an EMP pulse, to name a few.

When it's a SHTF situation, the simpler, more robust, the better.

Paranoia: To some, it's an affliction. To me, it's a hobby.
 
Fella's;

I'm a locksmith who specializes in safes. A1abdj covered it well, only a couple of comments to add.

Mechanical dials: Look for LaGard or Sargent & Greenleaf. The cheap safes from offshore also have cheap mechanical locks. Have a locksmith change the combo, it's easy to mess it up yourself & hard to fix. The cheap mechanicals are not easy to change the combo on, that equals more expensive.

Electronics: Same as above comments for mechanicals with the same companies noted.

Keys: The only high-security key system worth messing with IMHO is Medeco, but then I'm a dealer.

900F
 
I have a big Ft. Knox Yeager

which weighs, literally, a ton. Empty. It's a great safe, though pretty spendy, and I have only one problem with it: it has an electronic keypad. I had ordered it with a mechanical lock but that's how it came, and I decided to live with it and see how it went. Works fine, but I have a nagging concern over electronic failure, lightning, EMP, etc. And I can't operate it silently; it beeps with each digit entry. I've sent an inquiry to the manufacturer about changing to a combo lock. I'm just concerned that someday I may need to get into the thing quickly and silently.
 
UL rated electronic locks are not easy to bypass. A Group 1 electronic lock is more resistant to manipulation than a Group 2 mechanical lock. These locks do have a higher failure rate than mechanical locks, and are non serviceable.
Click to expand...

what is UL

what is Group 1 and 2

what scale are they on (1-5, 1-10, 1-100)
what is the direction of the scale? Is number 1 best, or is number 10 best?
 
If all you have is one pistol. Then I would look at going with a single gun safe that has a spring loaded door where you press buttons with your fingers and now they have updated it to include a biometric fingerprint reader. If your going to go this way I would bolt it to the floor under your bed.




http://www.gunvault.com/
 
what type of guns do you have
i have a Remington 24 gun fireproof safe with a cylindrical lock with a key to unlock the cllindrical lock. I keep my long guns/valuables in there bolted to the top I have a two gun pistal safe where I keep my home defense guns/ S@W 1911/ Beretta 96 that has a four button push button code to open it. I keep the key to the big safe hidden in there. I have quick access to a loaded firearm thus buying me time to access my bigger guns if need be
 
what is UL
Click to expand...

Underwriters' Laboratories. They are a not for profit group that conducts various testing on consumer products. They rate safes and locking mechanisms based on fire and burglary resistance. Most insurance companies in the US require UL ratings when insuring the contents of a safe.

UL also rates alarms, as well as the dispatch and control rooms of alarm companies.

what is Group 1 and 2
Click to expand...

In short, it's a classification given to locks based on their reistance to manipulation. These locks also have to meet other minimum requirements as it relates to the security of the lock.

A group 1 lock is more resistant to manipulation than a group 2 lock. Group 1 locks are tested to 20 hours of manipulation attempt, whereas group 2 locks are tested to 2 hours of manipulation attempt. Most electronic locks seen today are group 1. Most mechanical locks found on gun safes are group 2. They do make group 1 mechanical locks, but they cost more, and I've never seen one on a gun safe.

what scale are they on (1-5, 1-10, 1-100)
what is the direction of the scale? Is number 1 best, or is number 10 best?
Click to expand...

Different lock manufacturers build different grades of locks. The least expensive are the most commonly used. Higher priced safes tend to use higher quality locks.

The UL requirements and testing are simply a minimum standard that has to be met. Each company will build a variety of locks that all carry the same rating, but some of the locks will be constructed better than others.

It's difficult to make this an easy answer, as each company assigns their own model numbers to the locks. These model numbers don't always make sense. The easiest way is to look at price. The S&G group 2 mechanical lock that cost $200 is going to be a better lock than the S&G group 2 mechanical lock that cost $100.
 
How?
Click to expand...

Using a S&G combination change tool that is made for the particular lock that you're looking to change the combination on.

Most lock and safe manufacturers will void any warranties if they dertimine that the end consumer has been tampering with their products. The warranties require that any service, including combination changes, be performed by a qualified locksmith.

I will also mention that I have a nice 24' boat parked in my driveway. Over half of that boat has been paid for by people changing their own combinations. The other half has been paid for by people attempting to lube their locks. It's not rocket science, but it is very easy to lock yourself out of your safe. The $50 you save on a combination change may end up costing you $400 to drill the safe.
 
The electronic SG locks can be changed by user w/out voiding warrenty. Instructions come with safe. In my situation, owners booklet was lost by outfit I purchased safe from. I emailed the manufacturer and they emailed back the instructions. This does not apply to mechanical combo locks. For them, a locksmith is required to maintain warranty.
James
 
"You'll want to look at safes built like gun safes (but smaller), built using steel plate (with no insulation), or built with dry composite construction."

My understanding is the BF series from Amsec would fit the bill there.
 
It seems like I need to spend a small fortune to hold one handgun. I don't like the looks of safes that only have one small deadbolt (like 1/4" thick). The group thinks I should buy a Sargent and Greenleaf locking mechanism and then buy a safe to mount it in?? How much will something like that cost?? If I can't get something that will be reliable for a while for $300 or less, then I won't get anything.
 
Shooter:

Just what exactly are you trying to lock up?

I am a serious lock user and am familiar with the high-end deals. At work.

At home, I use a Wal-mart DAC quick-access handgun safe for my loaded pistols and a deadbolted closet to keep long guns outta my kids' hands. I can not afford a quality safe and have no room for a big safe of any quailty.

Do what you can with what you got.
 
Right now, I have one handgun to lock up. As soon as I can find another gun that I'm looking for, there will be two hanguns.
 
If I can't get something that will be reliable for a while for $300 or less, then I won't get anything.
Click to expand...

You should be able to get a small B rate with that budget (not counting shipping). It'll be a real safe that should be secure enough to store other valuables in.
 
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