Big boys .458 SOCOM Monster vs the Beowulf

[wacki]

I was impressed with the .50 cal beowulf which can shoot a

• 325 grain bullet at 1950 feet per second
• 400 grain bullet at 1800 feet per second

http://www.gunblast.com/Alex_Overwatch.htm

But apparently the .458 SOCOM Monster will launch 300 grain bullets at over 2100 fps and 500 grain bullets over 1350 fps.
http://www.gunblast.com/Alex_Overwatch.htm

Didn't realize there was something that could trump the Beowulf by 100 extra grains.

 

[GunTech]

I like 600gn VLDs in 458 SOCOM. They're subsonic, and make for a great suppressed round. Of course they are too long for an AR mag, but they do great in a turnbolt.

 

[wacki]

I like 600gn VLDs in 458 SOCOM. They're subsonic, and make for a great suppressed round. Of course they are too long for an AR mag, but they do great in a turnbolt.

I have no idea what that is. I could guess, but I've never seen one.

 

[PercyShelley]

You've no idea what a turnbolt is? Sign of the times and the dominance of EBRs I suppose.

I jest of course. By turnbolt, GunTech means a bolt action rifle.

 

[wacki]

Heh I have a bolt action Savage 10FP but I've never heard it called a turnbolt. I assumed it was some form bullet feeder kind of like a wheel gun.

 

[Tony Williams]

There is (or was) also the .499 LWR. There's an article on my website ('More Punch for the AR-15') comparing the three, and this is a photo from it:

From left to right: 5.56x45, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowulf, .499 LWR

There's also an article on the Teppo Jutsu range of cartridges, and this is the pic from it. The .500 Phantom is intended for AR-10 class rifles rather than AR-15:

From left to right: .30 HRT (110 grain Hornady V-Max); .338 Spectre – 300 grain Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail Match King) and 300 grain HAWK Round Nose; .458 SOCOM – 300 grain Barnes X Spitzer, 400 grain Barnes Round Nose Solid and 600 grain Barnes Original; .500 Phantom - 168 grain Sierra HPBTMK (saboted), 700 grain HAWK and 750 grain Hornady A-Max.

 

[rdaines]

I kind of like the .338 Spectre, http://www.teppojutsu.com/338.htm

Seems more like a pistol round rather than an intermediate between the 5.56 and the 7.62. I could be wrong at first reading....

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

I have a question about those velocities. On Alexander Arms' website they were showing velocity readings for a 24" barrel, which should trump up the numbers a lot.

Does anyone have real-world, chronographed readings of both from 16" barrels?

 

[jefnvk]

You know, the .458 has always intrigued me. Who makes uppers for it, and what is the availability of reloading supplies?

 

[trueblue1776]

Is Leitner Weise dead? I still see their uppers occasionally and they are still expensive.

 

[brentn]

Rock river arms is the only company I know of that makes uppers, there may be a few others.

Ammo is done by cor-bon, again thats the only supplier I am familiar with.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Straight cases might be easier to reload, point to Beowolf.

 

[K.L.O.sako]

don't forget the new .450 bushmaster.

 

[Wanta B]

I was poking around and ran across this thread.I've had a come and go again fancey for an upper like these in a big o'l thumper round.

So,here goes...

1)how does the 458 SOCOM have more energy than the 50 Beowolf when both have roughly the same case body diameter but the 50 has better case volume?

2)How is it that an AR 30rnd mag only holds 10 458s but 12 50s ?

3)How does recoil in an AR compare to say a Marlin 1895 GG 45-70?

I have to say those numbers are quite impressive compared to .45-70,altho' in modern loading I'd say it still wins,wich leads me to my next question...

4)How do those ARs hold up in these calibers?


That 30 HRT looks interesting to me...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

3) About comparable - the AR15 advantages are in being semi auto and higher capacities.
4) Apparently just fine.

 

[Wanta B]

Excellent,thank you.

 

[interlock]

what are these all about?

Guys,
What are these rounds all about? they look like fun but do they have a real application?

interlock

 

[dmazur]

One opinion of what they're all about was Cooper, who I believe dreamed of something called a "Thumper", which was basically a large caliber AR15 type rifle.

The way I heard the story, someone made up and delivered something like this to Col. Cooper before he died -

.450 Bushmaster

Apparently it was a .45 Pro by LeMAG, and this is supposed to be similar to the .450 Bushmaster, which is now sold by Bushmaster (ammo by Hornady.)

There is probably more to the Thumper story than this, and this is but one reason for the above calibers. I've also read of US Coast Guard interest, specops interest, etc.

All of the above are, basically, how to get more "punch" out of the AR-15 platform. Which is, an existing semi-auto rifle with fairly good maintenance support for trigger group, magazines, etc.

Does it do something fundamentally new? Probably not. You could duplicate the performance in a variety of existing calibers. Does it do something new in an AR-15? Yes.

 

[interlock]

I can see why the special ops guys would like it. It would be nearly silent from a moderated rifle (subsonic loads) unlikely to over penetrate too much and be very very deadly at limited ranges.

interlock

 

[Kind of Blued]

Very cool pictures & thread. I had a couple of questions come up:

What kind of suppressor would one use with something like the .50 Beowulf or .450 Bushmaster? I'd imagine it might have to be custom made, unless someone knows of something. Obviously, it wouldn't need to be as voluminous as a .50 BMG can, and wouldn't need to be able to withstand as much pressure. I'd guess a .30 caliber can with a bigger hole would work.

Which of these is the most popular and has the most readily-available reloading components? My guess is .450 Bushmaster, but I could be wrong.

P.S. The .500 Phantom looks awesome.

 

[TIMC]

what are these all about?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys,
What are these rounds all about? they look like fun but do they have a real application?

interlock

They may have no real purpose but they will smack the pee out of a pig, that's what I use my Beowulf for.

 

[Kind of Blued]

'Zactly.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The Beowulf, supposedly, was developed by Alexander Arms for a heavier duty embassy gun that would not look like a heavy duty gun but more like the standard AR15. So with ballistics enough like a .45-70, it would be good for things like short range (less than 100 yards) vehicle penetration/stopping that the 5.56 isn't know for being very good at, but in a similar package.

Like the .45-70, the Beowulf and other similar calibers are very good hunting rounds.

 

[Wanta B]

If your in Brown Bear country 10-15 rounds of 45-70+p+ out of a semi-auto with box mags would be rather nice...not necesary but nice non the less!

That is one SWEET pig gun!! Now I reaqly want another upper!!

I am still curious,how can these rifles deal so well with such hard hitting cartridges?I mean they were built around a puny little hyper-volocity .22...

Wanta B

 

[SHvar]

Ars are tough rifles

Because the rifle was designed for serious punishment, and has proven itself worldwide for over 40 years in military service around the world. The ar platform has proven to do great with many big powerful rounds that were designed for use with single shot rifles over the years.