Blown primers and stuck ejector

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Gilly78

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I am fairly new to reloading to start with. As far as diagnosing and powder characteristics I am still learning from more experienced. Disclaimer out of the way.

I picked up some new bullets pretty cheap and wanted to work up a load for my 7mm Rem Mag Savage 111. Components are:
150Gr-Remington Accu Tip heads
New Winchester brass
CCI LR mag primers
RL-22 powder
OAL 3.290

Previously I worked up loads for 140gr Nosler BT and 140 Gr. Corelokts and found a good load with both giving me well under MOA at 100 yards and powder at 69gr of RL-22 with the Corelokts and 68.5 with the BT's.

I went through the same steps to work up with the new bullets. Per Lyman the Max load for 150's is 67gr of RL-22. First load was 64.5, then 65, then 65.5 then 66. I had poor accuracy and no pressure signs with the lightest 3 loads then shot a 66g and blew out a primer. *** no warning what so ever. Next I droped down and shot a 65.5 which had no issues over 4 rounds previously and blown primer and would not eject. Scratching my head I shot my last 64.5 and blown primer! I then noticed the Ejector pin was stick back a good 2mm or so. My last shot of the day was with a known round of safe function I worked up a couple months ago, the 69gr behind the 140 Coreloct hunting load. BLOWN primer. All rounds were made with brand new Winchester brass at or just below 2.50 case length and double checked for OAL to be at exactly 3.290 OAL. There was no resistance in chambering so I can only assume that the chamber is over the 3.290 SAMMI length.

1)Outside temps when first loads were worked up was ~50deg. Temp yesterday was ~80-85deg. Is there that much of an impact to ambient temps to cause pressure to jump that much?

2) I am still under suggested max loads which I believe are published safe max loads. Could my chamber be off that much to not be safe to shoot published loads under max?

3) If the ejector stuck due to failure not associated with over pressure, could that cause the blown primers, or is that not a possibility and the over pressure absolutely the cause of the stuck pin and blown primers.

4) Is there anything you can see from what I have been describing that I am doing incorrect to cause human failure or anything the more knowledgeable group here could suggest as a better way to work up loads?
 
Handloads appear to be loaded to HOT for your Rifle?

150Gr-Remington Accu Tip heads are listed as "A thicker jacket and harder lead core"
This will increase pressure when compared to (normal) thinner jackets and soft lead cores. If there is really a difference at all in the Rem bullets ?? Alliants powder guide 2013 lists Reloder 22 at 68 gr maximum for a 145gr Speer SP bullet, and 66gr max for a 140gr Speer. Different bullets = Different pressure. The COL looks ok, as long as your bullet is not into the rifling. Not sure what you mean by "blow out" primer? Falling out of the primer pocket is high pressure. Or is it a hole in the primers? Free Alliant powder guide here > http://www.alliantpowder.com/resources/catalog.aspx Or down load it.
 
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It's a long shot, but I'd suggest you check the bore of your rifle for heavy metal fouling ahead of the chamber. I had a Swedish M38 rifle years ago that had a rough throat, it went from normal function to blown/pierced primer in five rounds, after the last shot I could see the primers becoming flatter with each successive round. Heavy fouling had reduced the bore enough that pressures soared.
 
Thanks for the responses so far. I have yet to clean the bore since yesterday. But prior I had done a very heavy cleaning and removed all copper fouling and all other gunk over the course of a couple days after letting the rifle sit for some time.

winxb-when I said blown out I mean primer ejected from the pocket and was laying in the magwell.

I guess my biggest head scratchier is that 65.5 showed no pressure signs, then 66 blew out the primer. Then....I shot another 64.5 and same result..I guess I will work up another batch after fixing the ejector pin and start at 62. Will heat of the day have that much effect on a round. I was expecting maybe an inch or so higher POI not an over pressure.
 
As 243winxb said, different bullet = different pressures. When ever possible try to use data that is specific to the bullet your using. If you can't find data for a particular bullet, then use the lowest charge published, and work up from there.

And depending on which bullet and data you employ for a bullet from 139 grs. - 145 grs., the minimum can range from as low as 56.6 grs. to as high as 70.0 grs., as per Nosler, Hornady, Sierra, Speer, and Alliant.

I have to be honest, I've been using RL22 for the 7 mag for a very long time and have never experienced a serious issue with pressures before, and I'm well known for exploring max.. So my concern revolves around knowing, and with absolute certainty, what charge is actually being used.

GS
 
Bullet bearing surface

A longer bullet bearing surface will raise pressure when compared to a shorter one. To compare different bullets, i take a sized brass, place the nose into the case mouth and spin it by hand. Leaves a light mark. Do the same with the base of the bullet. This will give a rough bearing surface measurement to compare to a different bullet. Like in the photo. BearingSurface.jpg
 
That's a really cool and easy way to compare bearing surfaces, thanks 243winxb. I've definitely gained something from this topic.

GS
 
Update 5/24

Loaded up some more bullets. And shot through a crono for the first time.
140g Corelokt @ 3.290oal-69g R22-2431fps average over 4 shots
140g NoslerBT @ 3.305oal-68.5g R22-2401fps average over 3 shots

I did get a couple blown primers but with loads I knew were close to book max. but didnt have the crono out for the beginning of the range session.

My assumption is that for some reason my gun shoots way hot in comparison to book max safe charges and I need to drop a few grains and work up with the crono to ~3000fps. I also believe there are two factors at work to my primers blowing out. One is that there are some loose pockets in my brand new Win brass. I believe this to be the case because I would shoot a couple rounds with little to no pressure signs then one would blow out at the same charge. Second I am over pressure on some charges even though book safe loads are 2+grains over my hottest loaded rounds.

What the crono did for me was surprising. I cant believe I am shooting that hot from a stock Savage 111 With a 24" barrel. My shooting budy has a 7mag custom with a 26" barrel and shot one of my bullets @ ~3150fps. In theory he should be getting a faster reading out of the same bullet. We were both pretty surprised. Another surprise to us was that my brass has no visible pressure signs after firing except for the occasional blown primer. He is shooting at or just over max book loads and his brass looks like it but his primers and pockets are fine.

In summary, there is still a lot to learn and realize that every single gun will perform different and it really is important to start well below book charges and work up. You might just have a hot gun and starting mid range may very well be over pressure. A crono is invaluable while working up rifle loads.

Best group of the day was 67g of R22 and a 150G accu tip. Just under .75" 4 shot group and no blown primer. For a hunting rifle I can live with that.
 
#s?
2400fps with a 140 out of 7mm Rem mag seems slow by about 600-700fps.
3400 would be way HIGH, 7mmm STW, 7mm Ultra mag territory (unless I am just out to lunch today)
Distance to chrono? 2400 or 3400?
 
Something isn't quite right here? 2400 fps from a 7MM RM with those components and powder charges is way shy of the norm. Are you sure you didn't mean 3400's in fps, typo maybe?

Other wise your chrony may be malfunctioning, or it's set up to measure in some other format, maybe metric, though that doesn't even sound right?

How far away from the chrony are you? Shoot from at least 15' away and see what fps you get then.

But back to the actual issue at hand, what 243 winxb said, different bullet = different pressures, is spot on.

Other than what's already been addressed, I'm at a total loss. I would make sure the scale is properly zeroed and set to measure the intended charges. I load for numerous 7 mags with RL22, well, when it was available anyway, and have not had this problem.

Keep us updated as to your findings.

GS
 
Poorly miss typed. Yes the numbers were 3400+. Crono was about 20' from muzzle. Checked my scale and it's right on per the test weight. Just worked up some lower loads at 64.5-66. I'll be sending them as soon as I can get to thenjoy range again.
 
For what it's worth to you, there's a lot of information on the net about Reloader 22 being a temperature sensitive powder. Most of what I've read, it is predictable and the turning point for the powder seems to be around 80º+. I use it in a .300 Win. Mag. and so far ,so good.

Here's a thread on Long Range Hunting that discusses it.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/powder-temperature-sensitivity-31096/

I've also read that Alliant has been working on this and has some new powders on the way to correct this issue.
 
gilly78,

well, so far, you have two signs of definite over-pressure: first, a blown primer, second, 3400 fps with a 140 grain bullet.

there is nothing wrong with the winchester cases. your powder charges are over max in more than one reloading manual. and if you continue to shoot those loads in your gun, bad things will happen.

check the back of those cases with the blown primer. can you see an ejector mark? that would be another sure sign of over-pressure.

how do you measure out your powder with these reloads? do you have a powder scale to check the weight of each load? something is not right here.

suggest you start at the bottom of the data and, using your chronograph, work up to a reasonable (3100 fps for the 140s) velocity.

murf
 
I couldn't agree more with you Murf, exceeding 3400 fps with 140 - 150 gr. bullets is a pretty good indication of excessive pressures along with blown primers. I would recommend backing that charge down some, as well as trying to match bullets to data when possible.

I run some pretty hot 140 and 145's with RL22 in my 7 mags, one a Sav. 111 as well, and those were in the 3250 - 3300 fps range, no primers ruptured or any other issues, but hot none the less.

GS
 
Thanks guys. I couldnt agree more that I am over pressure. I used the Lyman 49 as my primary book for load data. Thats where I get my charges from. I loaded down to 64.5-66 with the BT's to see where I am on the crono. Saturday was the first time I got to shoot through one and that made me put the pieces of the puzzle together. I looked all over from manufacturing sites for a load comparison for the bullets I am using. Just wasnt there.

Two of the half dozen or so brass with a blown primer had ejector marks.

At this point I am not trying to debate the over pressure and too hot of a load. However, what is making me still scratch my head is the same bullet, same load, MY RELOAD, out of my buddies 7 mag was 3100fps and no signs of pressure. Pretty much where the load should be per Lyman data. Regardless, if I can get 2900-3100fps and under MOA I dont care what bullet or how much powder is in there. There is another thread in here asking if a crono is necessary...My answer is not but it sure is damn handy when trying to figure things out.
 
different chambers can have different pressures. the chronograph will tell you when to stop.

good luck with your load development and thanks for asking before something bad happened.

murf
 
That's an interesting aspect about different chambers / barrels effecting pressures. My 7 mags all produce variations in velocities and pressures. One in particular is about 150 fps slower than the others, and it produces lower pressures. That barrel is quite a bit looser than the others too, but accuracy is stellar, different barrel, different performance characteristics.

Keep working with it and documenting, and once you've figured what ballistic personality it has, load development should go a bit quicker for you.

GS
 
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