Bolt action hunting rifles, Bang per buck

[jmr40]

I think the Ruger Hawkeye is the most bang for the $. It is one of the most expensive rifles discussed so far but I feel that it also gives you a lot more. If you go with wood and blue they are the only rifle that uses nothing but steel and walnut. No plastic or aluminum parts. In stainless/synthetic they are the least expensive option. Even the Savage which many consider to be the value leader costs more than a Hawkeye if you go stainless.

The Hawkeye offers a classic American style gun that is rugged and almost never has any problems compared to other brands you read about. The one complaint is with accuracy, but that rumor should have died 15 years ago. Current rifles are shooting just fine. My 308 and 280 are 1/2" shooters at 100 yards with my handloads.

There are guns that cost less that will shoot as good and there are guns that I think are better put together. Kimber and Winchester come to mind. But the Ruger is the most gun for the money in my book.

 

[Uncle Mike]

A $300 stevens/marlin compared to the $750 synthetic stocked steyr/rem/win/sak of your choice...well....???that's what this thread is about

Well... have you gotten your answer yet...?

Tear a Steyr, Sako, Remington, Winchester, Savage or the Marlin apart and what do you have...? a barrel, a receiver/action/bolt and a trigger group, that's it... three major units.


The more costly units are 'supposed to have' a better barrel, actions are to be of a tighter tolerances and the triggers are to be crisper, not too mention the better materials.

If people knew where the major players obtained their component materials... I bet there would be a lot of raised eyebrows.

You mean to tell me that my $750 rifle is made of the same material, held to the same standards as your $250 rifle...yip! Sorry!

To get a MOA rifle, it HAS to be to a certain tolerance, does it not?

So if a $250 rifle will shoot MOA, and so will a $750 rifle...what am I paying all the extra cash for...?

Aesthetics, manufacturers name and reputation, part durability, marketing and advertising costs(18 wheeler road crews are expensive, as are corporate aircraft), the more you make, the more EPA impact you generate... more money off your bottom line.. what to do, pass it on to the customer.

All this, and more, is why the price difference in your firearms... but there is no quantifiable, justifiable reason a machine that will preform the same as another machine should have such a wide price difference.... or is there?

 

[GodGuns&Guitars]

Rifles

I have a Weatherby VanGuard in 300 Weatherby Mag. I've seen them in stores for around $400 with some kind of scope on them but mine has a Nikon ProStaff 3X9 on it. At 300 yards I can put five rounds in the bottom of a coke can. Trigger has been adjusted down to 3 lbs. For under 100 yards I use a Smith 629 and have also taken three deer with the Kimber Custom TLE II at 25 yards or less.

 

[Matrix187]

I'm thinking about buying a CZ550 American .30-06 /w woodstock, and probably a nikon 3-9x. Is this a pretty solid setup, and cost effective?

 

[BMF500]

I have a Weatherby VanGuard in 300 Weatherby Mag. I've seen them in stores for around $400 with some kind of scope on them but mine has a Nikon ProStaff 3X9 on it. At 300 yards I can put five rounds in the bottom of a coke can. Trigger has been adjusted down to 3 lbs. For under 100 yards I use a Smith 629 and have also taken three deer with the Kimber Custom TLE II at 25 yards or less.

Yes Sir, that's mighty fine right there! I have the exact same rifle. Best bang for your buck IMO. Bullets are kind of high $ though....

 

[UniversalFrost]

I'm thinking about buying a CZ550 American .30-06 /w woodstock, and probably a nikon 3-9x. Is this a pretty solid setup, and cost effective?

the caliber is perfect and is my main choice for everything from antelope to moose.

can't comment on the gun. never owned a CZ550

which nikon?

I have several monarch ucc's and 2 of the new buckmasters the 3-9x40 with nikoplex reticle in realtree camo and the 3-9x40 matte black with BDC reticle. the glass is as good if not better than my older monarchs and I was told by the folks at SWFA that the buckmaster and primos line of nikon scopes are actually the old monarch ucc's. I have seen several prostaff scopes, but they are ok and I would spend the few extra bucks on the buckmaster scopes or some older monarchs.

JOE

 

[Paradiddle]

Dave Petzel's top 11 most accurate rifles of 2007/2008 - Field and Stream

I'm sure this applies to "new" rifle models in 2007/2008.

http://www.fieldandstream.com/node/1000022230

I took the costs from Buds Guns - they are approximates

1 - Vanguard Sub MOA - $700
2 - Thompson Icon - $850
3 - Savage 14 Classic - $635
4 - Jarret Custom 700 - ? (easily over $1K)
5 - Sako A7 - $780
6 - Browning XBolt - $750
7 - Marlin XL7 - $300
HERE ENDITH THE SUM MOA RIFLES (average group size)
8 - Mossberg 464 Lever - $375
9 - S&W I Bolt - $450
10 - Remington 700 LSS - $1000
11 - Winchester M70 Sporter Deluxe - $785

What I found most interesting is that the average group size in this test takes a pretty substantial jump after the Marlin XL7. Which begs the question since you can get the Marlin for 1/2 of the other rifles listed, why not buy that and put a really nice scope on it, get some reloading gear, a new pair of boots and still come out ahead. I agree they are not pretty, but one thing they have going for them is that they shoot and if the airlines damages or loses your rifle, or your drop it, you aren't going to have a heart attack.

Jeff

 

[Arkel23]

I have the same rifle in .300 wby mag.

 

[natman]

This thread is like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Lexus and saying "They both get you from A to B. Why would you spend more on a Lexus?

I think a more apt comparison would be comparing late 80's vintage Cadillac Sedan DeVille or Lincoln Town Car to a Rolls Royce of the same vintage

A Lexus does a lot of things a Festiva doesn't

.

Really? Like what?
Fly? Drive underwater?

A Lexus does many things better than a Festiva, with more style, more comfort but it does the exact same thing: get you from one place to another. My point was that this thread deliberately ignores style, comfort, quality and concentrates exclusively on accuracy.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Of course it focuses on function and accuracy, amongst ugly plastic rifles cheap and expensive what else is thre to compare

comparing the cost of ugly plastic and paukerizing vs wood and blue wouldn't make a very intersting discussion

 

[dubbleA]

What I found most interesting is that the average group size in this test takes a pretty substantial jump after the Marlin XL7. Which begs the question since you can get the Marlin for 1/2 of the other rifles listed, why not buy that and put a really nice scope on it, get some reloading gear, a new pair of boots and still come out ahead. I agree they are not pretty, but one thing they have going for them is that they shoot and if the airlines damages or loses your rifle, or your drop it, you aren't going to have a heart attack.

I did the exact same thing but had to chip in for the scope and then some on my XL7

The Marlin isnt a bad little rifle for the price, it's about 1moa with 3 shots on a very good day, easily minute of deer every day.

 

[kmullins]

I would stay clear of Remington (my own opinion), I had a VLS that came from the factory looking like a used rifle. Never again will I buy a Remington I cannot physically see.

Best bang for the buck: hands down, Howa. Love mine and it has been great. Very quality rifle and well-built.

 

[Paradiddle]

I did the exact same thing but had to chip in for the scope and then some on my XL7

The Marlin isnt a bad little rifle for the price, it's about 1moa with 3 shots on a very good day, easily minute of deer every day.

Nice paint job! What caliber did you buy?

 

[Oldtrader3]

I still would go with the Model 70 for form, fit and function. Usually, accuracy is good also. I have owned (18) Model 70's in the past 45 years and all (yes all) were 3-shot group, accurately handloaded, MOA rifles to 200 yards. Some needed a little Accraglass bedding but all made the grade, for accuracy and having good triggers! Remington's (at least the older ones) needed recoil lug bedding as well.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I personally prefer the Model 70. I'm quite disappointed in the new Model 70s, though, with their new triggers. The old Model 70 trigger was an elegant thing, easy to adjust. Of course, I'm prejudiced against enclosed triggers ever since I was elk hunting in a freezing drizzle and had a Mashburn trigger freeze up on me.

 

[dubbleA]

Quote:
I did the exact same thing but had to chip in for the scope and then some on my XL7

The Marlin isnt a bad little rifle for the price, it's about 1moa with 3 shots on a very good day, easily minute of deer every day.

Nice paint job! What caliber did you buy?

Although I am not a fan, it's a 270 Win. With the Leupold Mark 4 and Federal Premium 15Ogr Nosler Partitions it's printed a few groups just over 3 inches at 300yds, which isnt bad considering factory ammo and a non floated barrel.

As far as the paint job goes, I was just screwing around with some duracoat that was fixing to go bad. Anything to get rid of the black.

 

[ElToro]

what i think you guys are arguing is about the merits of capitalism and the market system that produces things at all manner of price points for guys who can afford what they feel is right. a $300 used rem-win-tika-whatever will kill deer just as dead as a $15,0000 blaser as will flying to england and getting a custom fitted $100,000+ H&H royal double

if a guy can afford it, and shoots it well, who are you to criticize how he spends his money ?

just imagine how great it would be to live in a country where all the decisions of production come from a bureacrat who likely has never even shot a rifle?

 

[Uncle Mike]

just imagine how great it would be to live in a country where all the decisions of production come from a bureacrat who likely has never even shot a rifle?

Problem is this is what's starting to happen in this country... most of the decisions made today concerning what you and I have available to us for purchase(in the firearms industry)is not decided by a guy who has deer blood under his nails, but some CEO that is figuring the bottom line profit on the item in question.

Just look at some of the ridicules shortcuts taken today by the firearms manufacturers, all in the name of we are building it better and faster for you.... but you gotta' pay more...of course!

 

[JImbothefiveth]

in the field does any of this matter?

Yes, the trigger definantly matters. Better balance might also matter.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Just look at some of the ridicules shortcuts taken today by the firearms manufacturers, all in the name of we are building it better and faster for you.... but you gotta' pay more...of course!

That's why I buy used guns, not new. I can get guns made in the old way, without all the internal locks and other foolishness.

 

[Gryffydd]

I've owned spec to totally worked over custom moisins

you've invested as much in a moisin

the Moisin was not considered a good candidate.

Everybody say it with me:
MOSIN NAGANT...
There is no such thing as a "Moisin" I don't know why this spelling seems to be so common. I guess it's just the people who think it's pronounced "Moy-Zen"

Edit:Yes, I know about historical spelling variances...but you used to be able to buy ammo marked for .45 Long Colt too

 

[DRYHUMOR]

Well I've slept on it. Thought about it.

Firearm engineering has come a long way when you think about it over just the past 10 or 12 years.

Tooling is expensive though, so in order to shave a few pennies off of every rifle, there has to a trade off whether in the plus column or the negative column. Looks, accuracy, trigger quality. They all come into play.

I read some posts about aftermarket triggers and bedding, nicer optics. Could it be that these are the negatives, as far as trade offs? If the tradeoffs cost additional money, then what happened to "best bang for the buck"? If the scope rifle package out the door is 399.00, and the scope replaced with one that costs 399.00, you've got a 798.00 rifle package.

I figure it this way, by the time it's all said and done, a rifle, scope, rings and mounts, ammo, sling, case, and practice time is still going to push the "buck" part of the equasion to between 500.00 and 1000.00 nearly every time. New or used, for an average.

 

[jmr40]

When you consider "bang for the buck" don't forget to think long term. A lot of these $300 rifles are essentially throw away rifles. Use them a few years and when something goes wrong it will cost over 50% of the value of the gun to get repaired. Most people will just buy another and throw away the gun rather than getting it repaired.

Most every gun I have ever owned has been a quality gun bought used for around $300 to $400. Most would have cost 2X that to buy new. I am forever trading and usually after a few years I find something else I want and I will sell or trade to come up with the funds to purchase another gun. I rarely ever loose money and often get more than I paid.

Even though a lot of $300 rifles shoot as good as a $700 rifle now. What is it going to be worth 10 years from now. Better to buy a quality used gun with that $300.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Mosin Nagant!

Yeah it's communist garbage from last century. Yeah it weighs a million pounds. But damn, that thing goes bang every time, no matter what, and 7.62x54r will put venison on the table for ~$100.

 

[chuwee81]

i got 2 guys from Mongolia working with me and they grew up hunting sheep (mountain goats), boar, etc with mosins amongst other things. They even had a full auto AK just to shoot at wild hogs/ boars in the woods (Vast lands, nobody around for miles). After having a mosin and felt the power it had, i have no doubt that you can successfully go hunt with it. The iron sight is not great but does its job well. mine can shoot grapefruit size 10 rd group at 50 yds and better if i can see the damn sight and target. My pastor (long time shooter) did 4 shot group the size of ping-pong ball.

Safety sucks but it can be achieved in a different way by loading a round, point it at a safe direction, hold the cocking knob and release the trigger and gently bring the cocking knob to rest. When you are ready to shoot, just rotate the handle 90* upward and bring it down again without pulling (extracting) it back. Sorta like decocking handguns with hammers i guess.