i've searched around the internet and the highroad seems to be the most info around but i still cant find the info im looking for. i've seen the gallery loads and thats close to what im looking for but in reality i want to know if i can use a lee classic reloader for 45 lc and stuff 35-40 gr of pyrodex in it and top it off with just a .454 ball then thro some lube on top of the ball after seated and crimped. im not looking to reduce loads and use filler. can it be dun this way? the reason i want to try this is i have most everything i would need already.
bp loads with round ball in 45 lc
- Thread starter aerial
- Start date
- Status
Acorn Mush
Member
Weclome to the forum!
You should have no problem with loading .45LC as you suggest. You shouldn't need a very heavy crimp though. Use just enough to keep the ball from rolling out of the case.
Instead of lubing the ball after it is put in the case, have you thought about using a lubed felt wad under the ball? If not, that is something you may want to consider. If you do this, use a stiff lube on the felt, or a thin card wad between the felt and the powder so you don't contaminate the powder with the lube.
Good luck.
You should have no problem with loading .45LC as you suggest. You shouldn't need a very heavy crimp though. Use just enough to keep the ball from rolling out of the case.
Instead of lubing the ball after it is put in the case, have you thought about using a lubed felt wad under the ball? If not, that is something you may want to consider. If you do this, use a stiff lube on the felt, or a thin card wad between the felt and the powder so you don't contaminate the powder with the lube.
Good luck.
fantastic i have considered the felt wad and card. but im super cheapo lol. so i am trying to find the cheapist way to do it as i have the balls and pyrodex and 45 colt all i would need is the loader and primers ( I will definitly look into the wads tho might be less messy) any suggestions for primers i have read that you would need magnum primers for bp. then i read that pyrodex can use regular primers so im a bit confused on that.
Years ago I remember reading about shooting round balls in a .45 Colt. I recall the problem was getting the bullet to crimp and stay in place and not fall down on the powder charge. .454 balls don't weigh much. If I were to try doing this today I think I would skip the BP or BP sub and use Unique because of the air space issue. I think Lee makes a 160 gr bullet mold that would be better for a light load, I would think. None of my .45 Colts guns shoot well with any bullet less than 250 gr. I had a bunch of 225 gr .45 ACP bullets that I tried in my .45 Colts they, the bullets did not work well in any of them. I have a Ruger Blackhawk, a TC Contender, S&W 25-5 and Winchester 94 AE none of them shoot well with a .452 inch bullets or any light weight bullets. If you are looking for something cheap to shoot you might try some wax bullets. They work good to about 10 feet. Wax bullets work well in the Contender, I use CCI large pistol magnum primers and I have drilled out the flash hole to 1/8" for my wax bullet cases and painted the case head red. On the web I did see some .45 Colt cases that had the primer pocket opened up to take shotgun primers.
I've come to the conclusion that there isn't any advantage to using roundballs in place of normal bullets when it comes to loading up .45 Colt. I don't cast my own so my statement is based on the cost of purchased supplies like bullets and roundballs. I'm cheap too! 
I decided that for purchased supplies BigLube bullets are easier and just as cheap as Hornady roundballs. The 150 grain BigLube bullet (next to the roundball in the photo) is the closest thing you'll find to get similar type performance to a roundball type load.
Be careful when referring to Pyrodex as BP. Pyrodex is not BP. It is a substitute for BP. While in some ways it has "similar" characteristics to BP in other areas it does not. You can read more about the differences here. It would appear that Pyrodex is harder to ignite than BP. You probably don't need magnum primers but then again you might find the performance is better with magnum primers. BP is easy to ignite and does not need magnum primers. Actually, I see that you didn't refer to Pyrodex as BP...my bad.
As far as the crimp goes you will probably find it takes more of a crimp to hold that roundball in place. You can probably see that in my photo. The last thing you want is for your roundballs to get jarred lose under recoil and end up with multiple discharges at the same time. Crimping just enough to prevent the roundball from "rolling out" is not good enough for government work.
As pointed out previously, there is a disadvantage of using roundballs in that there's no easy way to deal with lube. Personally, I think putting lube on top of a cartridge is somewhat silly. So your other choice would be to use a lubed wad or grease cookie under the roundball. You could do that but I'd recommend a vegetable wad (0.030) between the powder and the lube/roundball.
You were correct in your selection of 0.454 roundball. 0.452 would be great but who makes those?
For loading equipment I used my Lee single stage press and Lee .45 Colt dies. I should point out that to seat the bullet I generally tap the roundball in with a rubber mallet to the right depth. The reason for this is that the 0.454 roundball is a little bit larger than the 0.452 Lee dies were made for. Thus, it is possible for the roundball to get stuck in the bullet seating die.
In summary, here are the disadvantages to using a roundball.
1. No easy way to lube.
2. Can not easily use the Lee die to seat the ball.
3. As purchased not cheaper than a BigLube bullet that comes pre-lubed.
4. Heavy crimp required to guarantee it doesn't jar lose under recoil.
I decided that for purchased supplies BigLube bullets are easier and just as cheap as Hornady roundballs. The 150 grain BigLube bullet (next to the roundball in the photo) is the closest thing you'll find to get similar type performance to a roundball type load.Be careful when referring to Pyrodex as BP. Pyrodex is not BP. It is a substitute for BP. While in some ways it has "similar" characteristics to BP in other areas it does not. You can read more about the differences here. It would appear that Pyrodex is harder to ignite than BP. You probably don't need magnum primers but then again you might find the performance is better with magnum primers. BP is easy to ignite and does not need magnum primers. Actually, I see that you didn't refer to Pyrodex as BP...my bad.
As far as the crimp goes you will probably find it takes more of a crimp to hold that roundball in place. You can probably see that in my photo. The last thing you want is for your roundballs to get jarred lose under recoil and end up with multiple discharges at the same time. Crimping just enough to prevent the roundball from "rolling out" is not good enough for government work.
As pointed out previously, there is a disadvantage of using roundballs in that there's no easy way to deal with lube. Personally, I think putting lube on top of a cartridge is somewhat silly. So your other choice would be to use a lubed wad or grease cookie under the roundball. You could do that but I'd recommend a vegetable wad (0.030) between the powder and the lube/roundball.
You were correct in your selection of 0.454 roundball. 0.452 would be great but who makes those?
For loading equipment I used my Lee single stage press and Lee .45 Colt dies. I should point out that to seat the bullet I generally tap the roundball in with a rubber mallet to the right depth. The reason for this is that the 0.454 roundball is a little bit larger than the 0.452 Lee dies were made for. Thus, it is possible for the roundball to get stuck in the bullet seating die.
In summary, here are the disadvantages to using a roundball.
1. No easy way to lube.
2. Can not easily use the Lee die to seat the ball.
3. As purchased not cheaper than a BigLube bullet that comes pre-lubed.
4. Heavy crimp required to guarantee it doesn't jar lose under recoil.
Last edited:
ClemBert is 100% on the money regarding loading 45 Colt with the good stuff. I will say that if you're looking to get rid of some .454's that you already have or are in a hurry and don't want to wait on the 150gr Big Lubes to arrive in the mail, there isn't anything wrong with using the .454's or whatever you get your hands on.
I loaded a LOT of .454's before I switched over to the 150gr RNFP Big Lube bullets. After loading the powder and veggie wad, I simply scraped SPG lube around the case mouth. I would then load the RB and crimp. It doesn't sound like you're going to have an airspace issue with the charges you are intending to use, but keep in mind that Black Powder and an air-space between it and the projectile can lead to the shooter being a test dummy, just make sure that your RB or bullet is seated onto the powder whether it's Pyrodex or Black Powder.
By the way, ClemBert is WRONG, the Big Lubes are CHEAPER than roundball!! (I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to claim ClemBert was wrong before
).
One last word of warning....
You're about to do something that is VERY addictive!!! It'll just start out with 45 Colt but then it becomes 38 Special, 44 Special, 44 Russian, 44-40, 38 S&W, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and pretty soon your wife asks you what's in all those cartridge boxes stacked behind the work bench.
I loaded a LOT of .454's before I switched over to the 150gr RNFP Big Lube bullets. After loading the powder and veggie wad, I simply scraped SPG lube around the case mouth. I would then load the RB and crimp. It doesn't sound like you're going to have an airspace issue with the charges you are intending to use, but keep in mind that Black Powder and an air-space between it and the projectile can lead to the shooter being a test dummy, just make sure that your RB or bullet is seated onto the powder whether it's Pyrodex or Black Powder.
By the way, ClemBert is WRONG, the Big Lubes are CHEAPER than roundball!! (I don't think I've ever had the opportunity to claim ClemBert was wrong before
).One last word of warning....
You're about to do something that is VERY addictive!!! It'll just start out with 45 Colt but then it becomes 38 Special, 44 Special, 44 Russian, 44-40, 38 S&W, 357 Mag, 44 Mag and pretty soon your wife asks you what's in all those cartridge boxes stacked behind the work bench.
Foto Joe said:
Au contraire says ClemBert to Foto Joe. You forgot I get dealer pricing with my C&R license that really gets the price down on those Hornady roundballs.
But to me the slight lower price of the roundballs still doesn't make it worth the trouble for stated reasons. I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken. Gallery load?
Use 15 grains BP and cream of wheat to fill the extra space.
Ball falling into case?!!!!!
Should NEVER have space for ther ball to fall into the cartridge when using BP!!!!!
No need for a round ball seating die if you get a compression plug. Compress the cream of wheat to a set depth and just set the ball on top of it for the crimping stage.
Due to the reduced amount of powder, good compression, and scouring action of the cream of wheat I have found lube unnecessary in this gallery load.
Use 15 grains BP and cream of wheat to fill the extra space.
Ball falling into case?
!!!!!Should NEVER have space for ther ball to fall into the cartridge when using BP!!!!!
No need for a round ball seating die if you get a compression plug. Compress the cream of wheat to a set depth and just set the ball on top of it for the crimping stage.
Due to the reduced amount of powder, good compression, and scouring action of the cream of wheat I have found lube unnecessary in this gallery load.
Burt Blade
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2004
- Messages
- 477
If you use American Pioneer Powder, you do not need to use any lube at all. You can also use standard lead bullets with smokeless lube.
Another option is the Springfield designed collar button bullet. Lyman makes or made a mold for it, #457130. Similar to the big lubes but I prefer the historical aspect of the mold. Perhaps it inspired the big greasers.
I have a custom six cavity mold for it. It casts out at .460 and 158 grains but it is easily sized down to .455 or smaller. The smallest I have gone is .430 for my 44 Colt.
A round ball in 45 caliber is roughly 145 grains, the collar button was designed to duplicate that but have the ability to hold a lubricant and give more bearing surface for better accuracy.
I have a custom six cavity mold for it. It casts out at .460 and 158 grains but it is easily sized down to .455 or smaller. The smallest I have gone is .430 for my 44 Colt.
A round ball in 45 caliber is roughly 145 grains, the collar button was designed to duplicate that but have the ability to hold a lubricant and give more bearing surface for better accuracy.
ive used round balls under a full load of BP loading was fairly easy but i find the barrel leads up real bad and i have very poor accuracy.
i decided i needed more bullet weight or less powder
wads would be a very good choice i think
this was in 45 lc out of a pietta 58 using a conversion cylinder
i decided i needed more bullet weight or less powder
wads would be a very good choice i think
this was in 45 lc out of a pietta 58 using a conversion cylinder
I'm curious as to your theory on why you were experiencing barrel leading? Did you use a fiber wad between the powder and the bullet or a lubricated felt wad? It would seem that a roundball fired from a cartridge with 35 grains of BP wouldn't be much different than a roundball fired from the cap-n-ball cylinder and 35 grains of BP.
birdshot8's
Member
I second the ball on compressed cream of wheat over 20 25 grains of powder. I would lube in the cylinder after loading your gun. other wise cleaning will not be easy.
zxcvbob
Member
How about *two* round balls with the lube in between them? (might be better with Unique than BP)
BCRider
Member
Clembert said:
In rifles the twist rate for conical bullets and PRB's is quite a bit different. Are the twist rates used in C&B guns intended for the relatively light round balls quite different from the guns intended to shoot cartridges? No idea other than that. But if that is the case it could explain the leading if the round ball doesn't have enough engagement surface area to bite in well and some lead gets sheared off as a result.
The reason it raised my curiosity is that there is no inherent difference between a roundball fired from a cartridge versus a cap-n-ball cylinder. Therefore, if one sees barrel leading from firing the roundball from a cartridge would one expect to see barrel leading if the roundball was fired from a cap-n-ball cylinder.
areial said:
I've been getting mine as well as my 44 Caliber bullets for 44-40 and 44 Special at Dash Caliber. Dash Caliber refers to them as EPP Ultra Gamers. I believe that BigLube.com also sells them, but I've never gotten any there.
If you are worried abut leading cast the balls out of Lyman #2 alloy or wheel weights. Since you are going to use the loads for plinking it does not matter if the lead is hard or soft.
I think using round balls in a ctg. is way more work than it it worth.
I think using round balls in a ctg. is way more work than it it worth.
no i used no wads when i made up mine and they probably had closer to 40 grains.
i could probably get a similar effect by using ffg in place of fffg in stead of wads
ill have to try that next time im loading
full case of fffg directly under a ball seemed a tad to hot
but they were not a bother at all to load
freedom475
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2011
- Messages
- 97
Leading in a handgun is almost always caused from an Under-sized bullet.... If the ball is too small when it gets to the forcing cone, hard wheel weight bullets will make very little difference.
You might want to mic your cartridge cylinder and slug your barrel to make sure that your ball is not being swaged down too small ,by the cylinder, before it even reaches the forcing cone.
You might want to mic your cartridge cylinder and slug your barrel to make sure that your ball is not being swaged down too small ,by the cylinder, before it even reaches the forcing cone.
Fredom475 I beg to disagree with you about leading being caused by under sized bullets. back in the early 70's I shot a lot of Winchester Luboy (sp?) Winchester .357 mag. rounds in a Ruger Blackhawk. I would get chips of lead falling out of the muzzle. Totally turned me off form shooting lead for many years when shooting more than 1000 fps. I do agree that an undersized bullet can cause issues but I think the bullets upset and fill the bore with a heavy charge.
I believe Fredom475 is correct. The leading comes from the ball or bullet melting in the chamber mouth up to the barrel when it is to small. I would guess that the gas can cut away the lead as fast as the ball can swell once it starts past it.
drawing of cartridge and cap and ball chamber. Gas can cut around the ball much easier in the cartridge cyl. at top of drawing.
View attachment 142042
drawing of cartridge and cap and ball chamber. Gas can cut around the ball much easier in the cartridge cyl. at top of drawing.
View attachment 142042
Last edited:
TheRodDoc's illustration makes sense. It also lends credibility to the reason we use "veggie wads" between powder and bullet on cartridges (at least I do).
Personally, I've never experienced leading in any Black Powder barrel with either bullets or round balls. On the other hand, all of my 45 caliber loads are .454's and 44 caliber loads are .430's. I have however had leading on the inside of the chambers of a '62 Police in 36 caliber. It only happened once and I haven't got a clue as to why. I was able to pull the leading out with a dental pick.
Personally, I've never experienced leading in any Black Powder barrel with either bullets or round balls. On the other hand, all of my 45 caliber loads are .454's and 44 caliber loads are .430's. I have however had leading on the inside of the chambers of a '62 Police in 36 caliber. It only happened once and I haven't got a clue as to why. I was able to pull the leading out with a dental pick.
TheRodDoc's illustrations show it is plausible. It would be important, as others have suggested, that one measure their cylinder's chamber throats to determine if their situation matches TheRodDoc's illustrations. In my case they do not. On both my conversion cylinders the chamber throats are 0.452. The round ball I used is 0.454. Therefore when the roundball comes into contact with the chamber throats there is no gap as shown in the illustration. YMMV.
- Status
