Mikee Loxxer
Member
Which one would you carry into battle and why?
They had the most unsound tactics at the time lining up and firing volleys from close range as they did.
The Brown Bess had a gooseneck cock, while the Charleville had a double-throated cock.
As far as free floating barrels went, that's never been a military focus. The 1903 was fully bedded, generally with a pressure pad in the forearm IIRC.
Previous post is spot on.
The tactics were not unsound at all.
These tactics did not become unsound until the muskets were exchanged for rifled muskets in the 1850s and 1860s.
Brown Bess. Faster reloading, better craftsmanship. Plus, if you capture crappy Frog ammo, you can still use it, whereas the reverse is not so.
Then how come the Brits lost? Not all American units fought the way they did as I've mentioned above.
Diomed has a point here, but IIRC, at that time, each man also had a bullet mold. I mentioned I read somewhere about the men molding their own bullets (and some putting a nail through the bullet to inflict a nastier wound).
Regarding the Charleville/M1795's barrel being banded to the stock, I take it that was before they knew about free-floating barrels and the better accuracy of a rifle in the infantry role.
Brown Bess. Faster reloading, better craftsmanship.
The ring-neck cock was introduced in 1809, virtually eliminating the risk of a broken neck.
Use of barrel bands is good for ease of repair, but field stripping simply wasn't done back then.
These tactics became unsound in engagements such as King's Mountain. The Brits did it there way. Nine hundred Scots-Irish deer hunters from the Southern Appalachians wiped out the British officers and, IIRC, won the battle in about 45minutes of the unsueing confusion. A body of men with muskets wouldn't have known which end was up without their officers saying "turn this way".
Regarding the Charleville/M1795's barrel being banded to the stock, I take it that was before they knew about free-floating barrels and the better accuracy of a rifle in the infantry role.
Neither the Brown Bess nor the Charleville were rifles. They were smoothbore muskets.
The British at Kings Mountain were actually Americans, and were armed with rifles -- and breechloading rifles, at that.
The British loss in America had more to do with strategy than tactics. They beat Napoleon quite handily - that was a full-on Brown Bess vs. Charleville war, very standardized, very civilized. (Of course, their tactics had also improved markedly, with the two-rank line and rifle-armed skirmishers.)
I've never heard of the nail thing before. I have heard of an order (possibly Washington's) to load buckshot with ball to improve the odds of hitting something.
Bullet molds were for rifles. Back when most everything was handmade, there just wasn't the consistency of manufacture that there is today. Add to that the fact that sometimes a barrel was recycled by reboring it out a little bigger, and the odds of your finding an "off the shelf" batch of balls were pretty low. So the guy who made your rifle also gave you a mold.
In contrast, military muskets were typically issued with pre-assembled cartridges IIRC. Lots of ladies were sitting at home prepping bandages and cartridges for their sons and husbands.
Our modern thoughts and experiences tend to give us a severly biased view, and a condescending one at that, towards those who came before us. The military commanders of the 18th century were not idiots or ignorant of tactics. They were very well educated, very intelligent, vigorous, and capable military leaders. Sure, there were bad ones then, but can anyone remember Montgomery's Market Garden? How about the Vietnam war of attrition?
My point was that with the musket's inferior accuracy- especially given the undersized ball issued as noted by other's- would make free floating the barrel useless, but the weapon would be tougher when it came time to use it for a club.
When the Russians refused to fight that way, he lost due to weather and an extremely long supply line (hampered by the great difficulty in foraging by his soldiers along the way).
The Brown Bess, having a pinned barrel, could not be free-floated (and in fact, no muzzle loader can -- because there is no receiver to bed.) The pinned barrel was a great weakness.
War was just as serious an affair then as now, and winning just as important. Generals did not wish to lose troops, and avoiding needless losses was important. It seems a prancing affair, with gaudy uniforms, silly hats, and tall feather plumes, yet it wasn't a ballet.
French logistics system was badly adapted to the task -- the wagons, for example, were designed for European style roads, not the swamps and marshes they encountered. The allocation of draft horses was made on the assumption Russian roads would be as easily travelled as European roads, and the whole system was overloaded
Hitler's tanks do come readily to mind. I was just watching a show about the Panzers in Russia in the last couple of days. German Tiger II's couldn't navigate the mud in Russia well at all. Russian T-34's had wider treads which IIRC were copied on the Panther. Napoleon's supply wagons... they would've been better served by pack animals, but basically, Hitler and Napoleon both effectively out-distanced their supply lines. Patton about did the same thing in the rush to Bastogne... (my Grandpa drove heavy trucks on the Red Ball Express out of Antwerp Belgium, BTW)... that was another winter campaign that could've turned into a much bigger disaster.