"Bubba"ize an Enfield?

[yesterdaysyouth]

How did it shoot before you made your alterations? Don't underestimate the potential accuracy of these old rifles.

well before i did anything besides clean it up i was getting 2 out of 10 into a gallon jug at 100yds, and a sore shoulder....

the rifle was in really bad condition, the stock was cracked from the bolt to the buttplate in 2 places, the top handguard was gone, the bore was rusted up pretty good, and there was virtually no finish...

lapping the bore made a good improvement, although it's still pitted very deep...

next i added the stock and scope mount, this of course made the biggest difference...

next i cut the barrel cause the last 4 inches or so were shot out... and i didn't like the look of the front sight up there... i could take a .311 bullet and drop it down inside the tube that far without pushing it at all...

the stock had a warp in it alongside the left side of the barrel so i cleaned that out and bedded the barreled action using silicone, it's all i had, and i was bored

don't think i would do this to a rifle in excelent condition....

 

[NapAttack]

Give the old warhorse a new lease on life instead of putting her out to pasture.

Sporterizing her just adds to her history and gives her a few more years of useful life. History is to be studied and learned from, not put on a pedestal and worshipped.

If that old rifle had a soul, don't you think it would be saying "I once protected the soldiers who carried me and helped them fulfill their mission of protecting their way of life, now clean me up and make me pretty and let me continue my work by putting food on your table or ridding your propery of pests or protecting you and yours. I have a long distinguished history, I can't compete with those new rifles in the military anymore but I can still do a good job for you."

Let the museums and collections open to the public handle preserving history. They've got fine examples of weapons that everyone is allowed to see and appreciate.

I've sporterized or "bubbaized" if you will several old military weapons. Were they collector grade? I don't know and don't really care. I bought them, they were mine and I modified them to suit me. Not only do I use them now, they were invaluable in helping me learn how to work on guns.

 

[Beetle Bailey]

don't think i would do this to a rifle in excelent condition....

sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing you, and anyways, sounds like you gave the old gal a new lease on life .

 

[444]

Good for you

You are doing the right thing.

Just a note on Bubba. We have a guy here locally that fancies himself a gunsmith. He has a C&R FFL and has spent considerable time ruining good mil-surp rifles. I went over to his house to see if I could find a Turk Mauser bolt that would pass headspace in my rifle; he offered to trade me straight up since he was rebarreling anyway.
He proudly showed me a few of his creations that he had for sale. They were 98 Mausers that he had completely sporterized in the style of the 1970s (loud thumbhole stocks etc.). I noticed that all had complete Nazi markings and no import marks.
Great
The rifle that he cut up would have been worth more in original condition than what he thinks he can get someone to pay for it after he "worked" on it.
And, I can buy a new Remington 700 ADL for less than he wants for his creations.

 

[Bill Hook]

In related news, the price of 98Ks just jumped $50 on the finding of increased scarcity.

 

[Gewehr98]

Not a new message thread by any means...

See here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16526&perpage=25&pagenumber=1


I got something of a giggle out of this response:

I'd probably sporterize a rifle just to annoy collectors. It's my firearm, pistol or rifle, I paid my own hard earned dollars for it and I'll do just exactly what I please with it. If I "bubbaize" it then it's still mine. You may not like it but you don't own the firearm so your opinion does not matter.

Definitely an insight into a person's character.

 

[Bill Hook]

Also his wallet and the money he loses would be his. If you're stupid enough to cut off your nose to spite your face, then have at it.

 

[Hazwaste]

Pic

Somebody asked for a picture of the old girl. Here you go...

 

[Gewehr98]

Good grief, Hazwaste!

That SMLE is in way too good a shape to bastardize. I've restored milsurps that were considerably worse off than that one. If you're dead set on sporterizing it, let me know, I'll buy that one off you and find you one that's already been "converted".

Case in point, a former Bubba-job I lovingly brought back to 1917 issue standards (Note the pedestal that this piece of museum history sits on - it's actually a bench rest, and it gets admired, 180 grains at a time):

1917 Enfield NoIMkIII* restoration

 

[Daniel T]

I have a No1MkIII* that has been thoroughly and viciously "Bubba-ized". The fore stock has been cut off at the barrel band, and all of the top hand guard has been removed, along with the metal pieces that protect the sides of the rear and front sights. Also, the butt was trimmed down, and a recoil pad glued on.

My grandfather gave it to me about 10 years ago, and if I remember rightly, he said that he had committed these crimes. However, when I was talking to him the other day about my growing C&R collection, and I remarked that it was a shame that my Enfield had been sporterized, he told me he had gotten it that way. Uh, sure thing Granddad.

 

[Gewehr98]

BTW, if that SMLE was made in England in 1939...

It was assebled from parts farmed out to smaller industries, commonly called the "Peddled Scheme", during the early days of WWII. BSA, Fazakerly, and Enfield Lock were under threat of German air attack during the Blitz, and had already converted from the NoIMkIII* to manufacturing the No4Mk1 rifle in the late 1930's. The idea of the Peddled Scheme was to decentralize manufacture of arms such that air strikes wouldn't cripple production of war materiel. Your 1939 NoIMkIII* was one of those farmed out proof-of-concept rifles. As such I'd be even more loathe to change anything on it. And I'd be even more willing to take it away from you were you still inclined to modify it.

 

[Sunray]

If your Mk III was made in 1939, it was one of the last made. The No. 4 starting being issued in 1939. I'd be inclined to put that one away and find another rifle to butcher, mean hunt with. Especially given the condition it appears to be in.
Please reduce the size of your pictures. Pictures that big can take all day to load for somebody on a dial up and it requires a lot of scrolling etc.
"...they don't make em like that anymore..." And thank god for that. You ever work on a Colt revolve. Bunch of wee tiny parts with odd springs and levers. Friggin' nightmare.
"...A mauser action would be a better hunting rifle..." Nonsense.

 

[Bill Hook]

Nonsense.

Pray tell us how the selection of rimmed cartridges matches rimless then, since the bolt necessitates use of rimmed calibers? Or why these are unsafe to upgrade to .308 (Ishapores have different metallurgy)?

The fact is, that they're really only good for .303, which is okay, but not ideal.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

.303 =.308 ballistics.

if .308 isn't an ideal whitetail round, i don't know what is.

 

[Bill Hook]

Hazwaste,

As others have said, you could sell that gun for an easy $150 and probably more like $250.

If you do take the wood off, the foresock MUST come off before the buttstock; the latter is best removed with a large square shank regular screwdriver and vise-grips.

Don't lose the rear nosecap screw, as GPC doesn't have any last I checked. A rubber mallet and light tapping straight down will help unseat the forestock after triggerguard removal.

 

[Bill Hook]

if .308 isn't an ideal whitetail round, i don't know what is.

Availability and feeding are my concerns. .303 is available, but not like .308 (of course you can reload, but then .311 bullets cost more) and rimlock is another potential deficiency.

 

[Hazwaste]

Worry not (see earlier post), I've decided to leave it as is. No intention of selling it either, as I have no intention of selling ANY of my small but soon to be growing collection (C&R on the way!!!! )

Smaller picture attached for you dial-in folks.

 

[Hazwaste]

Gewehr98...

FYI, it has a "BSA" stamp on the receiver.

 

[P95Carry]

it has a "BSA" stamp on the receiver

Ahhh ..... ''Birmingham Small Arms'' ..... lot of SMLE stuff came outa there IIRC .... and of well reasonable quality too.

 

[Gewehr98]

First off, I changed the image to a link.

I'm just glad Sunray said "please". I guess he caught me in a good mood, with broadband I could really care less how much time it takes for others to load images. Been there, done that, starting at 300 baud with my Commodore 64. It's a fact of Internet life, if you're worried about it, just turn off graphics on your web browser. I do that while using dial-up with my laptop when overseas. I still have to scroll through forums, though.

BSA? Cool! Peddled Scheme rifles still used big-name major assemblies, so you might see a variety of receiver stamps. Often, the bigger factories had to finish final assembly because the smaller businesses had trouble keeping up with their war materiel production quotas. So you'll see a WWII-vintage NoIMkIII*, with different manufacturer marks on receiver, barrel, buttplate, and furniture. The receiver is the key here. The UK had moved ahead with production of the No4Mk1 rifle as WWII ramped up, the earlier NoIMkIII*was being phased out in favor of the newer rifle. Events at Dunkirk, as well as other shortfalls, drove home the need to boost weapons production. a 1939 NoIMkIII* with a Birmingham Small Arms stamp means that it started life as a peddled scheme rifle, regardless of what other parts ended up on it. These WWII British NoIMkIII* rifles tend to get collectors excited, Australia and India were the only other manufacturers of the NoIMkIII* rifle during WWII.

 

[NapAttack]

Definitely an insight into a person's character.

Yep, don't much cotton to folks tryin' to tell me what I can do with my property.

Course I get a big kick out of collectors that pay good money for a gun then turn it into a wall hanger or safe queen. You say you shoot your collectors guns? Well then, aren't you ruining the value of your collector's piece by shooting it? No way you can shoot one regularly without adding more wear and tear, a few more nicks and dings to it.

Have to admit I get a good belly laugh out of watching collectors argue over whether some obscure marking is original or repro.

Sporterizing an old military clunker really is turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.

 

[jrhead75]

Sporterizing an old military clunker really is turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Or a $500 Tobruk/Stalingrad/Normandy veteran into a $150-$200 silk purse.

Whatever...if the extra half pound of wood kicks your butt on a hike, or you can't hit the heart/lung area of a deer over open sights at 150 or 200 yds...knock yourself out...it is your gun after all.

Just makes those competition/range rat/deer hunting original condition old war horses of mine that much more valuable.

 

[Bill Hook]

Sporterizing an old military clunker really is turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.

Criminee, you could sell them and buy some plastic stocked POS with a Tasco scope using the money you got.

Do you move the trailer back to tighten the clothesline too?

 

[Gewehr98]

Bill, did you really mean this?

and rimlock is another potential deficiency.

That doesn't seem to have hindered all the soldiers of the British Empire who used the SMLE over it's long service life. In fact, I have a hard time loading my SMLE's in such a fashion as to create rimlock in the box magazine.

 

[No4Mk1]

Seems no matter where you go this debate gets heated in no time at all....

Seems to me that perhaps both sides are right if they would cool off and step back a little. I sure hate to see a very nice example of our collective history get butchered, but frankly not every C&R firearm out there fits into that category (heck, for that matter, most of them don't).

I personally like the analogy of old cars. If I have a beat up '69 VW bug and convert it into a dune buggy, have I spoiled a piece of history? NO! I have given an old car new life! On the other hand, if I take a pristine 69 Corvette Stingray and chop it then I may be terminally stupid, but hey, it is my property.... (And by the way, I just made the market for your 69 Corvette Stingray just a teensy bit better....)

This topic sure seems to ruffle feathers and breed animosity among our beleagured fraternity. I sure wish it didn't.

Do you move the trailer back to tighten the clothesline too?

Now that's taking the "high road"....