Bullet defect question

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Schwing

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Last year I cast a bunch of these .357s (probaby 800 or so). I am not sure how I didn't notice this defect. I am thinking it was back when I was smoking my mold cavities with a candle and that perhaps some oily residue from the candle might be the culprit. I have since discontinued this practice and use matches.

The odd thing is that I have 2 different 6 cavity molds that I used at the same time and about 8 in 10 of the bullets have this defect to some extent so multiple cavities are to blame. The ones in the picture are about as bad as they get. I cast some 9mms at the same time and they had the problem as well. I don't have any to picture because there were just a few so I tossed them in the junk bin and melted them down.

I have two questions. What do you think caused this if not the candle and do you think they need to be recast or would you just load them up and shoot them? I loaded a few and they seem accurate but I would sure hate to load up too many if it is going to impact accuracy much.

Thanks!

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I throw better ones than that back into the pot. I tried lubing my alignment pins with wax once. Never make that mistake twice...
 
2 different 6 cavity molds that I used at the same time
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Looks like bullet fill out was the problem. More heat maybe?? I cast till bullets get frosted, then i lower the temperature of the pot. Defects go back into my pot.
 
To me, it looks like the bullet was dropped out of the mold when it was still soft and it got a dent in it when landing in the pile of freshly cast bullets. What does the sprue cut look like? does it indicate a soft cut?
 
Don't know the cause but I would chuck them back in the pot and remelt them. Accuracy may seem acceptable but I'll bet leading would be terrible. Yup - remelt 'em.
 
I don't see the wrinkling I would expect if oil or wax was the culprit...I also wonder if maybe you dropped them too soon out of the mold and they either slumped or were dented. Definitely remelt and recast, I personally would not be able to load and shoot them like that. They likely won't be very balanced and accurate.
 
To me, it looks like the bullet was dropped out of the mold when it was still soft and it got a dent in it when landing in the pile of freshly cast bullets.
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Yep thats what I see here as well. Hard to imagine that your mold(s) would have a defect in it as blatant as that in more than one cavity.

I have had plenty of hot bullets get messed up by hitting others in the stack though.

What I found is by getting one of the discount store small baking pans of around a 8" x 10" or slightly bigger, (depends on the size of the mold really) and laying a folded cotton towel or shop rag in the bottom, then laying another one across the top with one end hanging over, it allows me to dump in a couple of spots, then gently raise the long end up rolling the fresh bullets to the end of the pan nice and slow. This also gives them a minute or two more to cool and solidify before impacting the others already in the pan. You can also set the pan on a slight angle to help in getting them to roll away form your dump area as well.
 
If this is what 8 out of 10 look like , something is definitely not right. I don't know exactly what's causing it , but try the following next time when casting.
1.) make sure the sprues have frosted over, then count slowly to seven before opening the mould. Give them a bit of time to harden some.
2.) have a low , long and wide cardboard box with old folded towels in the bottom to cushion the fall , drop the bullets low to the towel to avoid a long fall.
3.)Don't drop bullets so they fall on another, drop them on the pad, when you run out of room, pick up a towel edge and gently roll the bullets to the far side of the box.

Hot , fresh bullets are extremely soft and mout be handled carefully until cool to the touch. They will also harden more after a few days...which I have found odd, but they do .

If that doesn't help , it might be an alloy / uneven cooling thing . Looking at the photo, it almost looks like a frosted hot spot , why just in one spot I don't know. Kind of looks like the bullet is bent ? Strange for sure.

Gary
 
I agree with 243 that there's not enough heat in the alloy.

I cast that same bullet weight by the thousands. I don't think his alloy is hot enough. I was trying to cast at 675 and was smoking my mold but after I figure out that 750-800 made perfect bullets I cast there now.
 
One thing I did not mention that is probably not all that clear in the pictures is that the area around the dents are frosted like bullets look when you cast too hot.

Since I don't know what caused it, it is possible that just dropping them on top of each other hot is the problem but I have cast many thousands of bullets before and have never seen this. I have always either water quenched or dropped them onto towels. These (I think) were dropped onto towels.

It is good to know that some of you have good results casting hotter. I have read that you get better fill-out at higher temps. I usually keep mine under 700. For those who cast hotter, does it really matter beyond aesthetics that they get that frosty surface?
 
I am no casting expert by any means but that bullet looks like it was cast too hot and the top and bottom cooled faster than the middle causing the center to contract. I will bow to the other responders that know more about casting than I do but if going hotter doesn't solve the problem then definitely try going cooler.
 
wbrco said:
I throw better ones than that back into the pot. I tried lubing my alignment pins with wax once. Never make that mistake twice...
Click to expand...
Beeswax won't gall like petroleum wax. That's why we use beeswax in many popular bullet lube formulae, but never paraffin.
 
wbrco said:
Use Mobil1 in my diesel. I can spare a q-tip worth for my molds.[emoji1]
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I use it in my engines, too. It's a great lubricant! And mobil1 isn't wax. ;) Molds aren't engines. And we're not lubricating the mold joints, but giving them an anti-seize agent.
Beeswax works as an anti-seize agent on mold pivot points because when it burns off it leaves no galling residue like paraffin does. and motor oil.
The alternative to using beeswax would be to use an anti-seize paste like you would use on the spark plugs of a gasoline engine.
 
In my limited casting experience, I'd say either the mold or the melt is too cool. But I lean toward the mold temperature. Hitting something when soft, dropped from the mold? Mebbe, but in the same spot the same shape every time?

I see some really odd answers to your question, and not wanting to insult anyone, I'd say go to Castboolits http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/. There is thousands of years of casting bullet experience there...

BTW there's several very popular and easy to make bullet lubes with paraffin as the main ingredient...:p
 
I can tell you this there is no better lube for Lee dies than Full synthetic 2 cycle oil. Make sure its not blended. Got that tip from the owner of NOE molds and no greater guy to talk to.

The stuff is slicker than smooth bottom ice shoes on a frozen pond.

Looks like poor fill to me too and those 6 shot Lee molds are hard to heat right. I always had problems with the one closest to my hand when using a dipper.

What temp was the mixture? How much tin in the mix? Still looks like poor fill bubble that warped/collapsed as it cooled.

Don't know how you heat the molds but if you heat them on one of those single eye stove top plug in jobs. I also have taken my propane plumbers torch across the troublesome chamber to bring the temp up. But id not advise it for a new caster....in case one is reading this.

I've saw some bad advice on YouTube on how to prep, lube, and even improve Lee molds and even one cost me.

FWIW never (for new to casters) use anti seize as lube. It will ruin an aluminum mold. Cost me.
 
I don't think your mold is broken in properly. I would get rid
of the smoke and wax and clean the mold with carbon tet or
something. No scraping or brushes. Then throw bullets until
the mold breaks in properly. When it does it should have a
colored oxide (type) layer. Then it will throw a proper bullet.
Zeke
 
It would appear that the problem was in fact the method I used (candle) to carbonize the molds.

I took one of the molds these came from, cleaned it thoroughly with comet and a toothbrush followed by a rinse and dry and ended with a good acetone wipe-down. I then used MATCHES to smoke it and it now casts 100% beautiful bullets every time. I left the other molds as they were and gave them a go. They still cast crappy dented bullets regardless of lead temp etc. It isn't every cavity but 4 out of 6 in one mold and 5 out of 6 in the other.

Candles... Bad idea.

Thanks for all of the responses.
 
I've had the exact same thing with the exact same Lee molds. Probably exact same alloy.; wheel-weights.

Simple solution. Add about 1-2oz of 95-5% "lead-free" plumbers solder. It's 95% Tin 5% Antimony. The tin will correct the mold fill out and the "cold-alloy" frosting you are getting.I used to get mine from local big-box builders supply in 1lb rolls. Hard to find nowadays. When I run out of my current stash, I'll probably buy from RotoMetals.

Second suggestion. For casting info, you'll do infinitely better over at castboolits.com.

I also use butane barbecue lighters to smoke my molds. Lee and other makers of aluminum dies specifically and emphatically suggest NOT to use candles. Also, a carbide lamp or sight smoker is a bad idea too. Don't ask!
 
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